Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Due to the overwhelming generosity of Al Gutkin I will be up and flying in a month or so. I decided to start ANOTHER Telemaster thread to highlight the modifications I will be making.

1. Make new main wing spars to get rid of the dihedral. I'm going to need some input on the strongest wood I can get. I went to the local Lowe’s and they had solid oak, would that work?

2. Mount the rudder and elevator servos in the tail. I'm going to need to beef things up a bit but it shouldn't be too hard.

3. Bolt on wing modification. I'm not sure how I'm going to go about this on yet but I have some ideas.

4. Modify the cabin for another bomb drop.

5. Make another rudder with about 3x the surface area.

I had planned on recovering the model but the yellow is starting to grow on me. I'm going to have to try and match the color with some ultracote.
Thanks again Al for the gift. I had to keep my son from getting into the box on the drive home.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Great lookin kids there Mike
Hats off to Al Gutkin for his generosity.
Sounds like you've got some great ideas for your new Telemaster...looking forward to following your build thread, as I just might be buying myself another Telemaster.

George

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Just an FYI suggestion. If your going glow power, it would be a good idea to seal the covering seams with CA or something where any fuel will be getting on it. I have the same ARF. I don't know if they still use the same covering now as they did when I got mine in the early '90's. The covering on mine eventually suffered from terrible fuel creep, getting in between the clear outer layer and the yellow adhesive. I ended up stripping the whole plane and recovered it with Ultracote. It is a nice plane to cover with all the big flat surfaces. Good luck on your project. It should be a lot of fun.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I'm transfering all me electric gear over to her....except the battery R.I.P.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

LOL. Nevermind. [sm=thumbup.gif]

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

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Why would you want to get rid of the dihedral? Are you planning on flying Masters Class Pattern with this model?

Some dihedral is your friend. This model isn't going to do decent knife-edge or point rolls regardless of how much dihedral it doesn't have, but dihedral makes for nice, smooth, straight ahead landings. Rudder to roll coupling can be your friend, especially when performing airborne tasks other than aerobatics.

I like your other mods suggestions.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Ed has a good point there. I never gave that any thought before, but I also think taking the dihedral out of a Telemaster would likely take away some of the "nicenest" (spelling) of its flying characteristics. There were times when I just liked trimming it out to fly steady circles by itself and I could take my hands off the sticks for a time. That would be hard to do without dihedral. I love to touch and go this plane on one wheel and running the length of the runway that way. The dihedral I think makes that a lot easier plus the extra clearance helps. Also, when carring gliders on the glider launcher, I think the dihedral would give it extra stability. I does get a little squirrely with another plane attached to it. Being a flat bottom wing, it seems like little gain in aerobatics making it straight for this plane. It may fly inverted a little better without wanting to roll out, but it still needs more power to do that with the flat bottom. An interesting thought; do you think it would feel more like a Piper Cub with a straight wing? I guess it all depends on what feel you want in its handling characteristics.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I may try it stock then. How would you suggest I attach it to the fusalage then? I put the wing half's together and noticed that there is a gap between them which I don't like much. I'm going to have to rethink things now. My first real step in building is cleaning the garage!

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

LOL. I know what you mean. I finally just started my basement renovation into a hobby workshop that I have been putting off for 10 years. [sm=stupid.gif]

You could glue on a layer of balsa at the root chord and sand the angle in for a nice custom flush fit.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

A friend of mine getting back in after 20 years built his TM kit so strong, it's unnatural. He wanted to make sure he could still fly, but his old habits never died. He took out the dihedral, and reinforced so much of the airframe. It now has a Saito 100 in it, and he routinley performs 3D manouvers with it. Yes, I said 3D. Last year, the servo arm snapped off the throttle servo, and the engine went to full power. He suddenly began to regret that 24 ounce fuel tank as he performed flat spins and vertical climbing moves for about 30 minutes to burn off the fuel. Yet, on low rates, it's still a trainer.

I guess its an abomination right?
[sm=RAINFRO.gif]
Bob

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Progress on the ARF is nonexistant at this point. I did make it to the hobby store to pick up some wood to make the needed modifacations. I also cut out the bottom sheeting in the fusalage right behind the gear reinforcement plate. I'm still not 100 percent sure how I'm going to modify the forward half of the wing to make it a bolt on. I may carefully cut out the forward most inner rib on each side and fab up a hardwood piece with a tongue like my other design. I'm almost sure the servos are going in the tail but that will require some more work. I'm on travle next week so nothing will get done. When I get home I'm going to hit it hard to get back in the air.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Got some time to work on the bird last night and today. I decided to mount the servos in the tail which required some minor modifications and beefing of the tail. I used two small pieces of balsa the same thickness as the sides to frame in the servo holes and allow me to fold over the covering. I then reinforced the inner top and bottom with some light ply running between the last two formers to give the servo screws something to bite to. I think I must be crazy for trying new wing mount designs considering how the last Telemaster died. I carefully cut out the forward part of the inner wing rib and removed it. I used this as a template and cut a new rib with an extension out of solid oak 1/2!QUOT! thick. I'm going to use the original forward rib and sandwich both together along with a 6 or 7!QUOT! 3/4 dowel that will help distribute the load over several ribs. I surely hope this will be strong enough to hold the forward half of the wing on. I'm going to use the struts also so this thing should be bullet proof. My bomb bay door is going to be more simple then the last one and it's only going to be a single door. I didn't get much done on this part but did start to frame it in with 1/4!QUOT! square hardwood. I hope to get more done this week after work.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

It's amazing how just a few hours of work can make such a big mess!

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

You do nice work, Mike.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Looks better with dihedral..

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I'm keeping the diehedral. Others have added an extra rib between the wing half's but I wanted to be different. My next step is to get the holes drilled for the rear of the wing and then figure out where I need to notch and reinforce the forward former. How did you work the forward wing mounting?

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Mike; Just a false center rib that hangs way down and notched into the front bulkhead. There is not a whole lot of windshield heighth and of course the bulkhead is doubled with thirtysecond ply. The spars fit too loosly and needs both shimmed. I used ply to give a snug sliding fit. Originally the rubber bands kept the wings from moving up and down. Personally I think in this day and age the designer should have made it bolt on from the start. It IS a nice cheap plane tho. It looks like you are doing fine......

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

doing fine pulling all my tools out and getting saw dust all over. I'm going to have to clean up a bit to do the wing this weekend. I need to make sure that it is perfect before I drill the rear holes. I should have it close to being done this weekend. I still have to fab up the bomb bay door and servo. More pictures to come!

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I got some time this weekend to work on the TM. I'm coming along nicely with it. I got the wing mount figured out and it fits well. I still have to epoxy everything in but I will do that last. I got the bomb bay roughed in, tail surfaces and servos mounted and I made a new rudder. I still have a few nights work to do but the first step is to clean up my mess. I seem to have lost one of the two blind nuts I bought for the wing mount.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

MikeFreas;

Will you show the wing mod when you get a chance??? I now see in in a previous post. Sorry..

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

You still want to see it?

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Thanks Mike. Previous picture OK. What you done looks good to me. (I tried editing my last post, but didn,t do too good a job).

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

More progress tonight. I got the port half of the forward wing mount done and epoxied. I would have done both half's but I only have one large clamp. As you can see in the pictures I used the original rib as a doubler. I drilled and sanded a 3/4!QUOT! hole to accept a dowel that runs to the 4th rib. I wanted to add the dowel to help distribute the load better. With this set up both forward wing half's would have to tear away for the wing mount to fail. I also got some more work in on the rudder. One thing I didn't like about the hardware included in the kit is the tail wheel mount. I'm not sure why but the didn't install some kind of wheel collar to prevent the forces and bumps being absorbed by the rudder and hinges. I unbent the wire at the top and slid a collar that I will tighten just under the bracket. I'm not sure how much I will get done the rest of the week. Saturday is a big electric event and Sunday is RCX

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Hi Mike.

How is your Telemaster coming along? no reports on progress lately.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

It's done all but drilling holes for the strut mounts and mounting the motor. I have been distracted playing with my new Slow Stick. I will get it done but I have family coming in the next two weekends so progress will be slow. I noticed today that TrueR/C is once again sold out of packs so I will have to wait until mid June to order it.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Keep us informed Mike. I started building a new wing out of a kit for my ARF Telemaster and I intend to finish it with no dihedral and some reinforcement in the center section and in one piece, to make the plane a little more aerobatic. Will post pictures when finished.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I recently bought a telemaster 40 that came with two wings. The one wing coverd in monokote has had the center section fiberglassed the other looks like it might be silk span and dope covering so I am not sure how old it is. I purchased it from a gentleman who buys stuff at estate sales so I have no history on it. The monokote wing has flaps and ailerons the other wing just ailerons. It came with everything but a receiver and battery in it. The engine is a os 46 si with great compression and looks new. I put a futaba 128 receiver and 1100 mah batt and I think its ready. My question is should I go back and fiberglass the other wing? I dont know how strong the wings were origanily built or how old this thing is.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

The wing of the Telemaster 40, if built per plans, is strong enough but it is good practice to fiberglass about 4" of the center section to reinforce it, that way you never will have the wings fold on you.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Well it looks like the maden flight will finally happen this weekend. I have been waiting to get the money together and for TrueR/C to get packs back in stock. My pack should be here by the end of the week. I will be flying at the Watt Flyer fun fly in San Diego. I really hope everything goes well. I also got a new all electric field box for my birthday so I can move all my tools and gear from my slime box.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Will be looking forward to your report.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Hi All,
I need your advice about the location of CG.
Just bought a Sn. Telemaster ARF, with OS .61, and 4ch radio (installed), My model looks just like Mike’s model, there is no documentation and the seller gave me about 1lb. of extra weight to put in the nose to get the CG under the main spar

Now the plane is ARF with no visible repairs, with the recommended size engine, then why is it so much tail heavy? Or the correct location of CG is not under main spar.
I guess the question is that what is the correct location of CG on the ARF Sn. telemaster?
Can someone please tell me the correct CG location measured from the leading edge.


Thanks in advance for you feedback.

Regards,
Ajmal

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

The cg on the Telemaster has a very wide margin, it will fly well with the cg as far back as 7" from the leading edge, if you put it at the main spar it will fly like a trainer should fly, extremely forgiving, I would start there and move it back untill you find it flies the way you like.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

My Senior Telemaster ARF manual states the c.g. range to be 5-3/4" - 6-1/4" from the leading edge with empty fuel tank.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I finally got to maden my bird this past weekend at the Southern California Watt Flyer Fly In. My son and I had a blast and walked away with about 250 bucks worth of goodies. The Tele flies like a trainer with the CG set to about 5 1/4 inches back from the leading edge. I need to fix my battery tray to allow me to slide the pack back further. The bomb bay worked well enough for my son Nick to wing 2nd place in the contest. He dosen't know how to fly quite yet so I let him control the bomb bay via the buddy box. My new TrueR/C 5S2P 8000 mah worked perfect and allowed me 45 min of flight time on one charge. You just can't beat the value of this pack at 180 bucks delivered to my door with a balance tab! For those who aren't members of the Watt Flyer site here are some pictures. Check this monster of a motor out from Vision who also sponcered the event.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

Hi Mike.

To what size of glow engine is that motor equivalent? and what size prop can you turn with it?
Warning. The cover on the Telemaster ARF, splits very easily after being in the sun for long periods.
Calixto.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

How would this plane handle a small gasser and fuse filled with smoke tank?

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

No problem with gas engines, you probably would have to install the rudder and elevator servos in the tail and move the battery back to balance it properly. The fuse has a lot of space for a smoke tank I believe you have about 7"x4" by 4"deep empty space below the wing. I know some people have used 25cc to 30cc gas engines on the Sr. Telemaster. Do install the wing struts even tough there are no instructions for them in the manual. There are a couple of ideas by Mike Freas and me on the "Telemaster modifications thread.
Allso enlarge the rudder at least 50% if you like to do some aerobatics and don`t want to loose yaw control at low speeds.
Calixto

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

The motor is an AXI 4120/18 which turns a 14X10 E prop. I'd say it's close to a .60 with the 5S pack pushing it. I have plenty of power but it will not climb vertical or anything like that. I fly at about 1/4 throttle.

Check the other threads on the STM for the wing mods. I have a huge bomb bay in mine. There are many ways to skin a cat I guess and that's one of the best things about this bird.

I would suggest enlarging the runnder by 2X or more. I made mine over 2X bigger and it really helps in the wind. It's also fun to do rudder turns.

I started this thread to say thanks because this ARF was a gift after my 1st STM crashed.

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

I forgot to mention the one thing I don't like about the ARF version is the covering. I'm sure it's less expensive then the good stuff so I don't mind they use it to keep the cost of the kit down. At some point I will recover it but being E powered that may be a while!

RE: Senior Telemaster ARF modifications
 

The covering looks good, but it breacks very easily, I started construction of my SR.Telemaster kit and will install 3 .19 nitro engines on it and modify it to look like a Ford trimotor, will post pictures as the construction advances, allso recovered my .40 Telemaster and flew it last week, flies nice and it is more aerobatic, but nothing flies like the Sr. Tele.