RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Maybe a picture will help. This is my expression right now. This is also my expression after I've read that the last kit maker went out of business and the balsa wholesalers are now selling only to the ARF makers.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Do you really want to bore everyone in the post with my life schedule and why I am to busy to build , really????:D

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

lol. You're right, I didn't mean to bore everyone. I just get tired of people acting like they somehow know everyone's schedule and that the real reason for others not building is either laziness or ineptness. In the end, no matter how many times a new thread about this general topic is started up again, the responses/conclusions will be the same.

Dan

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Yah mine is enjoy the hobby. Period.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

I got caught up in the ARF craze too. I don't get rediculed for not building because I have built models as well. However, I am ashamed of all the unassembled ARFs I have acquired and am trying to quit or at least shy away from them. I started out with ARFs and kit built models. Later, I had this idea that ARFs would allow me to get a new model airborne in short order while I had a kit project underway. Apparently, you have to do more than just stare at the box the ARF comes in to get it flying. Time should not be an issue for me becase I waste lots... like right here. Perhaps I had too many bad experiences making "fixes" to those ARFs I assembled in the past. Building a kit allows some degree of personalization while scratch-building allows for limitless possibilities. For me, the lack of uniqueness of an ARF is a hinderance to motivation.

Just recently, I attended a club meeting that featured their annual building/display contest. There were about ten entries -- seven were ARFs and three were scratch-built airplanes. Everyone won! Is this part of that "no child left behind political correctness attitude"? A few of the ARFs were nice looking models that were assembled well but I thought that the owners were being rewarded more for someone else's craftmanship or the choice of subject they purchased. Just grumbling... and wishing for all the kits that used to be available.[:o]

Dave

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

John
If this is true then this man is not a building snob. All builders are not snobs about it. The man who taught me to fly was a builder only, he could fly better than anybody I know.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Personally I find your attitude as offensive as it gets. One of the best flyer's at my club is also the guy who can scratch build, plans build or kit build. He was also the gentleman who taught me how to build and how to cover. He understands more about what makes a plane fly aerodynamically than anybody I've ever had the opportunity to converse with. He has always been extremely helpful to all those who ask, always willing to give of his time and experience. Lets save the stereotypes please. This is a hobby we all enjoy, why purposely alienate those who enjoy different aspects of the hobby than you.

John
[/quote]


If this is true then he is no snob. The guy who taught me to fly was a builder and he could fly better than anybody I have ever known, he just wasn't cocky about being a builder and encouraged all aeromodellers no matter what they flew

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

---------------


Ah, they are just trying to motivate you. Their hearts are in the right place.


Ed Cregger

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Dan , I understand , it was not directed at you :D, just like everyone knows a job , raising kids ect , we all do it , but it is insulting when people want to tell you , "you have time " they have no clue who is sitting on the otherside of the computer and what there lives compromise of on a daily basis . So off my soap box ,

I just read some cool stuff in this months flying models on some nostaliga kits called speed builds from a rerelease of Monogram wood planes , looks very cool !!!
Anyone remember the scientific kits , small control line planes with great formed balsa fuse , they were a ball for kids to build in my kid days !!! everyone one of them flew great with a little cox 049 !!!!

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

I had a Kingpin with a Holland Hornet .051 that would really scream. It was a tad fast for the 35' lines. It flew well though.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

As a builder, I would never ridicule an ARF buyer.

I would only tell him that he might be missing the joy of creativity,
and that he doesnt have the wide choice of airplanes I have.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Gentlemen,

This week, I have been afforded the rare priviledge of being the Scale Outline judge for team scale at Top Gun. If you ever want to see what the difference is between an ARF and a Build, you should take the time to attend this event. The builders are the best in the world, and they come from all over the world, and there is not one snob in the group. I am a long time builder (some 58 years worth) and I wonder if I am worthy to look at the offerings that these gentlemen bring to this event. It is a humbling experience. If you want to see the planes that they brought, there are a couple of hundred photos that I have posted in the Vintage and Antique forum (under the WACO YMF thread pages 87 and 88) you are welcome to see them. Be advised that they may make you want to start building.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

think there is no discounting the fact that a kit built plane might have more but thats not the point of an ARF. I appreciate kits and the level of detail presented in them but again as stated 1 million times by many...time is something that most dont have and spending months to build something to have it possibly get mid aired, stepped on, dog/cat attacked, or any of the other hazards is something not worth it.

Please also try to keep the comments from being directed at any individuals or I will have to close the thread

continue please.. :D

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

I get ridiculed a lot for not flying. I sold my H9 Cap 232 last year and now realise how much fun I had with that plane, wish I'd had kept it. I think that building is a hobby and flying is a sport. Its 2 different things to me. For the sport of it I fly ARF's and kit builds and have a ball with both, my hobby is building planes. I do need to fly more, I'm hoping Extreme Flight brings out a 100cc Yak...Walt

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

DiabloKid, I have not directed anything at any one personally. I have not a clue why you directed this post to me....You might want to get your sights on target before you pull the trigger on someone. You are a moderator, and as such should not get wound up in the furball. I think you need to bring plane insane in on this one. Better than that, I will. You owe me an apology.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Congratulations Bill! Not only is it an honor to be picked as a judge but it also speaks volumes as to your experience and skill in the building arena and general aircraft knowledge. In my opinion Top Gun is best scale competition there is. It brings out the best.

Give 'em hell!

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

My name is Tony. I am addicted to building. I do not ridicule people who only fly ARFs.

I also occassionally purchase and assemble ARFs. My first ARF, actually an RTF, was a Wen-Mac control line Aeromite recieved as a Christmas present about 1950. My newest is a Goldberg Skylark 56 ARF. I have had probably 15 commercially built CL ARFs and 18 commercially built RC ARFs in between.

ARF/RTF/RTCs are not new. I have seen magazine ads for them possibly as far back as 1946.

The best, highest quality ARFs I have were not factory assembled, they were kit or scratch projects that the builder either lost interest in or were purchased from estates. I completed them.

Part of my reluctance to get highly involved with ARFs is a long history when many ARFs were in fact short lived junk. I am impressed however with the overall quality of the aformentioned Skylark. It is the best commercially built ARF I have ever had. The quality has very much improved over the years. The only real weaknesses I noticed in it were some materials and the hardware. I replaced most of the hardware with DuBro and the wire with K&S. After the maiden flight, I had to open the wing and repair a split LG block in spite of a soft landing. But, I admit the quality has improved, especially in the last 10 to 15 years.

There is some teasing (rather than ridicule) at our club field, not for the idea of ARFs per se, but principly when several people show up with the same identical model.

I also sometimes laugh at what sometimes passes for, as one RC columnist wrote, "An accurate scale model" when it looks more like one of the caricature plastic models Revel put out some years ago.

If you want to fly ARFs, by all means fly them. If you want to build and fly kit or scratch, do so. Don't put each other down for the other guy's choice.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

I wonder when the day will come when we see ARFs with decent quality hardware ... even expensive brands like Fliton do not give you decent hardware. I must say the hardware from WM is good and they work really well. Not asking for giant scale quality hardware but it can't cost much to give what WM gives ...

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

hey Stick/Bill congrats , that is a great tribute to your modeling eye and knowledge .
I have ofetn wanted to travel to TG but cant seem to tie it into business . Can you tell us (perhaps in another thread or this one ) who makes up the top gun guys of today . Example , are the shop owners , doctors , regular bussiness guys , laborers ect , it would be cool to know .
Its seems many time you see the famous kits distributors get the press in the mags , how about the regular guys that need to steal time to build those master pieces .

Thanks

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

LDM,

This year there were everything from one of the Deputy Chiefs of Staff USAF to a Car Salesman, and everything in between. If you want to see the pictures, go to the Waco YMF thread in the Vintage and Antique forum. Pages 87-90. Yes, there a lots of photos of Mike Barbee's YMF, but that is the name of that thread. Lots of other photo's too.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

You can say that again. I know going in that the hardware is going to get tossed. Adding a few bucks to the kit for quality hardware would not even be noticed by the people buying them. In fact, if asked, most would gladly pay a little more for quality hardware, even if its included at retail prices. That way its saves you a trip to the LHS.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

For me, having decent hardware and wire in a kit or ARF wouldn't immediately mean a trip to the LHS, it would just mean I wouldn't need to raid my stash before my next scratch/plan build.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

I took the time to read most of the posts before taking some of my building time to draft my thoughts on the never ending my way is better than your way arguement.
I feel that I do have some perspective about modeling and several of the paths that it has taken. When I started, man and powered flight had not yet been together for 50 years. Even so, my first powered plane was an ARF, a Jim Walker Firebaby. My first real multi channel RC was a Lanier Comet. My first rubber model was a Jim Walker arf as was my first hand tossed glider. Did they serve a purpose? You bet they did.
Did the older people around me think that my modeling efforts were on par with theirs? No, and some of them suggested that I might want to consider building some real models.
Over the last 50 some years I have built many more models than I have assembled ARFs but they all have served a purpose which for me is to fly.
ARFs allow people the chance to bypass a lot of effort and skill sets and get right to the heart of the matter which is to fly.
Many people that fly arfs want the same level of consideration and respect as the "builder"and they get their feathers ruffled when it it is not forthcoming. If you are in it for the flying then why should you care? You know that you made the decision to go the ARF route so why not accept it and get on with flying rather than wasting time defending your choice?
As for old versus young that has gone on from the beginning of mankind so shrug it off and fly.

My personal preferences are are displayed on my gallery page plus my blog section covers some of my last 50 some years of modeling.

In the end, worry about having a place to fly and something to fly not what others think about what you are flying.

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

How many BVM jets or Aerotech kits were there this year...with the panel lines and rivets already molded in to the wings and fuselages?

RE: Do you get ridiculed for not building?
 

Actually, there were quite a few BVM and Aerotech planes there. If you equate panel lines and rivets with them being an ARF, My friend, you are sadly mistaken. These companies give you a place to start, and that's about all. Some (not all) have composite wings, but some have built-up wings. If you would like to see the pictures, I have about 200 of them posted on the Vintage and Antique section, in the thread: WACO YMF. You will have to get past the photos of Mike Barbee's big YMF, but you gotta remember, it's a WACO, and Mike is a member of the WACO Brotherhood, so we naturally lean a little in his direction. Top Static score in Team Scale was a 1/3rd scale Piper L-4 Grasshopper from Brazil. The weathering was exquisite, as was the scale engine and the rest of the plane too. The final results are available. If you will PM me with your e-mail address, I will forward a copy to you, and you can see who finished where. One question here.....Just where would you expect people like Wayne Siewert, Bob Violett, Mike Selby, Dennis Crook, Mike Barbee, Greg Hahn, or others of this caliber to finish? These planes that you allude to, are not ARF's but are composite kits. By using that thought process, it would follow that since I bought a set of wheels for my Scale WACO, it's an ARF. It just does not wash. Aerotech and BVM just provides you with a place to start. Nice try though.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1