Ultimate Biplane
 

Hey Guys!

I am looking for some opinions. I want an ultimate biplane ARF or better yet, ARC. I want something in a .60 2S/.90 4S size.

Global has one, but it is a .40 size.

The ones that I have looked at on-line are the .40 size and 1.20 size from DPM. The 1.20 is, well, pricey with the OS120FSIII w/pump or the 160 twin. One thing that I do like is the fact that I can get one ARC in either size.

The only one so far seems to be the CGM. It seems to be just right. Not too big, not too small. However, it does not come uncovered that I know of.

Do you guys have any other ARF/ARC ultimates that I can check out?

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

Ultimate Biplane
 

Andrew, I have owned about 12 aerobatic planes in the past three years. 1/4 scale caps, .40 pattern, 3D's. I have a CG Ultimate. It is without a doubt one of the highest quality ARF's you can get and an awesome plane to fly. I have an OS 1.08 on mine. If I can tell you anything else just let me know. there is no other bipe in this size range that can compare. I've seen a lot of them. Most are either smaller or bigger. The CG Ultimate is a perfect size. I could have only one plane, this would be it.

PS: here are a few comments I made in another post.

The Manufacturer: A call to Goldberg Products generally results in a pleasant experience. That means a real person answers the phone and generally knows what they are talking about. On top of that they have a complete set of replacement parts available for the Ultimate.

The Quality of the Plane: The plane itself is one of the best I have seen. The cowl is of extremely high quality; the covering was flawless; and the plane built straight and true with no glitches. The manual is very complete and easy to follow and includes a list of parts available for the plane. I built mine basically stock and have about 20-30 flights on her and not a bit of trouble flying off of grass and asphault. She is rock solid. The blue & yellow Goldberg Ultimate is a beautiful plane with a very high “wow” factor. One other point. I feel the Ultimate is an ideal size. Not to big to transport easily; but big enough to be easy to see and possess great flight characteristics and eye appeal. The favorite in my fleet.

Flight Characteristics: The Goldberg Ultimate is a contradiction in terms. An extremely docile flying plane when you want it that way; but you can go wild in a blink. I am only an advanced-intermediate flyer (I can’t do blenders or waterfalls), but this plane is a blast to fly. My limited experience says it is one of the best combination use planes (Sport, 3D, IMAC) you can buy. I’m flying mine with a Pitts style muffler equipped OS 1.08 2-stroke swinging a MenzS 15x8 prop. A perfect engine for this plane. When you add that to the above mentioned “Wow” factor, you have one fun plane. If you’ve never flown a biplane you are definitely missing something and the Goldberg Ultimate is as good as it gets. My color pattern also makes it extremely easy to see and maintain orientation during aerobatics. This plane also has one other trait I just love. It has the best landing glide slope of any plane I’ve flown (about a dozen types). It comes down in an easily controllable decent that is not affected by ground affect and settles smoothly on the runway in all kinds of conditions. Her ground handling characteristics are also very docile.





Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve,

I need a favor.

Your enthusiasm for this plane has made me remember how much I liked the kit I built many years back; to the point I'm seriously considering the ARF.

I need to know how tall it is with the wings off. Please measure to the top of the rudder and the top of the front cabane attachment.

No point in getting one if it won't fit under my truck's bed cap.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Had to jump in on this thread. I finally got my CG Ultimate ARF together and flown a few times. WOW! What a delight! If you have a full size pick-up, the plane will fit in and under a cover fully assembled...at least it does in my F-150 flareside. This is such a fun plane to fly (and bring out to the field and get lots of great comments). It has no bad habits, flys like on rails, handles crosswinds well (which suprised me) and lands almost like a trainer...honest!

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve, mine was hanging from the ceiling when I measured it, but it looks like it is 18.5 inches high at the cabanes and 17" at the rudder.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Hey guys,
I flew a Goldberg Ultimate / YS 120 AC for 6 years. I never flew a plane I liked better until I got my Dave Patrick Ultimate / YS 140 DZ. The Patrick flys much better then the GB. I would strongly suggest going with the DP.... they do come in an ARC version.

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<..The Patrick flys much better than the GB...>>

In what way?



Steve, sounds like it just might squeeze in under the bed cap on my S-10; thanks.

Now, what engine? I've narrowed it down to a my YS 91 (in a pinch), or a new Saito or OS 120.

I had a Grauper three-blade prop on the OS 120 on the one I built long ago. Also had a Graupner 15x6 three blade on my Super AeroMaster. I really kick myself for selling the YS 120 FZ I had in that airplane...

I can't remember if I used a 15x6 or 14x7 on the Ultimate; but it worked great.

I'm sure the YS 91 will fly the model adequately, but I'd like pretty good vertical. That's why I'm considering buying a new 120; and I'm leaning toward the Saito right now...

Anyone flying this Ultimate with the YS 91FZ? If so, I'd appreciate hearing about your performance, what prop/fuel, etc.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

Andrew

Ultimate Biplane
 

The DP holds a line much better, horizontal and verticle. It is much easier to do pattern work with. It flys smoother and tracks better all the way around. It also does better spins... gorgeous upright and inverted spins... it even does a nice knife edge spin. It is easier to land, handles wind better....etc etc etc. Dave Patrick learned a lot from his Goldberg Ultimate design and improved on it with his DPM design. Do I sound like I love this plane? I absolutey adore it!!

Ultimate Biplane
 

Do not put a YS 91 on it..... you won't be happy. A biplane has more drag then a mono plane.. it needs more power. I have a YS 140 DZ in mine. I had a Saito 180 in it and liked it.... but I like the DZ a lot better. An OS 160 is also a great choice if you want to keep the price down... and the operating costs down.

Ultimate Biplane
 

If you are talking about the small DP or the Goldberg Ultimate that is to much engine. And he has already stated he is not looking for a larger plane.

Gry101, if I had it to do over again I would wait about a month or two and put the new YS 1.10 in her. Otherwise many have written about the virtues of the 1.08 in this plane. It's just about as big as you can go without buggering up the plane weight/balance wise, and it will be a substantial improvement over the .91

Ultimate Biplane
 

Locomotive,

Got it; understand. Now, do you think all that is because of the larger size, or because of design improvements DP made in regards to moments, etc.?

If the latter, can you be more specific?

<<...Don't put a 91 on it...>>

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've seen a kit-built fly adequately with an OS 91, and the YS definitely has more grunt; but I want more than adequate.

Still, I'm going to rob the servos & rx out of the UCD for this project; why not the engine too? They sell the cowl as a replacement part. If the YS 91 proves to be not strong enough for my tastes, a simple application of Mr. VISA will get me a 120 and a new cowl to fit...

Hmmm...decisions, decisions. But isn't that part of the fun???<G>

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<...operating costs down...>>

That Dingo must be a gas hog, eh? Everything I've heard says that the big two-strokes really guzzle fuel; if a Dingo is worse, it must inhale the stuff...

Ultimate Biplane
 

Larger size, light wing loading, improved decalage and thrust angles.

Trust me... a YS 91 is not going to please you. If your worried about fuel costs go with an OS 160. If you want the power go with a YS 140L or DZ.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Andrew,
Direct Connection still offers an Ultimate uncovered (ARC).
Regards,
DGO

Ultimate Biplane
 

What you are looking for is the Ultimate from direct connection RC. http://www.directconnectionrc.com

It's an ARG, and flies very well. I really enjoyed mine.

TF

Direct Connection Ultimate is slightly bigger
 

than the CG Ultimate. The full size american trucks have a bed depth of 19" that will fit even the DP Ultimate. If your bed depth is less than that it's a tight squeeze.

In my Tundra (16" typical Japanese depth bed) with the flush mount tonneau cover I had to remove the landing gear and then the tail wheel had a little pressure from the top.

Bottom line:
If your bed depth is less than 19" get the CG Ultimate (or do like I did and get rid of the truck for an SUV :D).

If you bed depth is 19" and your pocket is equally deep, get the DP Ultimate (and a big motor!).

HTH,

Scott

Ultimate Biplane
 

Scott,

I hear you. I've got 19" in the center where the ARE cover has a slightly indented area.

No way I'm going with the "remove pieces/parts to transport" gig again. Did that with the 1/4 scale CAP (same deal as you- had to take the gear off). Having to put the wings on and off each time is PITA enough.

I looked at that Direct Connection Ultimate when I was in Columbus a few years back; beautiful airplane, but like you say, it is a bit larger.

Locomotive, I hear you regarding the DP's better design parameters, but I'm hosed space-wise. I THINK the Goldberg will fit back there; I KNOW the DP won't.

I intend to buy another SUV as a retirement present to myself. In the meantime, I'm stuck with my little S-10. I had an Explorer when I had my first CG Ultimate. It went in the back fully assembled with room to spare.

Thanks, guys.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve,

Just for info. My CG Ultimate, assembled, will JUST fit in my suburban if I put it in tail first and at an angle. Ever since I found that out, it has been a lot more fun to fly. Yes 15 minutes to assemble is not that bad; but it's the PITA factor I hate.

Steve

PS: I made an overhead rack to hold wings and some PVC racks that allow me to stack planes on top of each other. I can put two 1/4 scale and two normal size planes in my suburban now if I really want to. but ever since I got the Ultimate it's the only plane I ever take anymore.

Ultimate Biplane
 

The CG Ultimate is definitely just the right size for transportation. I never had to remove the wings on any of mine when going to the field. Actually, even my DP 1.20 size Ultimate fits right in my SUV which is an Acura MDX. I have to put it in tail first diagonally, but I've had it AND my Goldberg Sukhoi both in there at once (The wing was off the Sukhoi!)

Direct Connection Ultimate ARC
 

I have the direct Connection Ultimate ARC.It stands 19" with 3" wheels.It's a nice plane.Hope to fly it this Sunday for thr first time.

Hank

Ultimate Biplane
 

Well, the availability date has been moved back to "Late June"; the rice crop must have been delayed coming in...<G>

Ultimate Biplane
 

The CG Ultimate is EXACTLY the same size as the World Models Ultimate ARF. The CG Ultimate is a dog vertically with an OS 90 4 stroke on it no matter how light you build it. The World ARF is a superb performer with a Saito 1.50 4s. The DP planes are too expensive but they do fly extremely well properly set up and powered. The Cermark Pitts flys very well with a Saito 1.50, in case you are interested.

I've been flying bipes of all aerobatic types for many, many years. Power is everything in a biplane due to the extra drag of the second wing and struts. I am not trying to take anything away from any of the models mentioned, just providing some personal experience.

Ultimate Biplane
 

I agree with what you say about the different Ultimates except for the comment that the DP Ultimate is overpriced. The Goldberg ARF Ultimate is around $330 at most shops and the DP Ultimate ARF is $400. I've owned and flown both the kit AND the ARF versions of the CG Ultimate and still own and fly a DP Ultimate. The Goldberg ARF has some great improvements over the kit version of the plane, but the Patrick Ultimate is MORE than worth the $70 difference in price both in the quality and design of the plane. There's just no comparison in the handling qualities of the two aircraft as the Patrick plane is definitely superior. Now this is in no way knocking the CG Ultimate as it is still my second favorite plane after the DP!

I just put a YS 1.40FZ Sport engine in my DP Ultimate and it swings a Pro Zinger 18x6 prop at 8700 rpm which is more than enough power for the plane. It now hovers at 1/4 throttle with ease and can pull out at 1/2 throttle. I previously had a YS 120FZ in the plane which would give it decent vertical, but would require around 1/2 throttle to hover and would only pull out vertically at a bit over 3/4 throttle. In my various CG Ultimates, my favorite engines that I'd tried were the OS 1.08 2-stroke and the YS 120FZ 4-stroke.

Ultimate Biplane
 

<<The CG Ultimate is EXACTLY the same as the World Models Ultimate...>>

Well, not exactly. The WM has wire gear and what appears to be wood cabanes. Still, it looks good, and WM has a great reputation.

But I'm real partial to that BlueHawk scheme, and the UltraCote. I think I'll wait for the CG version...

Thanks, silversurfer, for mentioning the WM. I had thought it was a bigger model.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

The one thing some of you fail to realize is that you are comparing apples and oranges when you are talking about the DP vs Goldberg argument. The DP is either a .40 size or a 1.20. It does not good to compare the 1.20 DP to the .60/.90 size Goldberg. The fact is there is no plane in the Goldberg size range that I have found other than the WM, and nothing against WM, but there plane is not the same. If I wanted a larger plane I would not hesitate to get the DP 1.20. But the fact is, the three things that put the CG Ultimate if first place for me are Quality, Looks and size (not to big, not to small, just right).

Ultimate Biplane
 

anyone know of someone powering a DP with a gas engine?

got a friend who bought a converted CG ultimate to 60in witha gasser. was nose heavy, flew heavy to landing but was still a typical ultimate in handling all around...

Ultimate Biplane
 

Well guys, after some thought, I will just have to settle for the DP 1.20 ultimate. ;-) Now, chosing a powerplant for it. What do you guys think about these choices:

1) OS1.60FX two stroke, 3.7 hp.
2) OS160FS twin four stroke, 2 hp but should be able to swing a bigger prop or pitch than the 160FX.
3) YS140DZ, no idea on hp. Actually, no idea about the engine or how good the YS line-up is.

I am partial to OS, only because I have had only OS and never had any problems and they start every time right out of the box. Thanks again.

Andrew

Ultimate Biplane
 

Go with YS power! BUT--don't waste your money on a DZ! The new YS 140 Sport is just over $400 at central hobbies new. I bought one and put it in my DP Ultimate and it is a great performer! I use a Pro Zinger 18x6 on Coolpower 30% and get high 8000's static. My plane uses 4 Hitec 5475HB digitals on the ailerons (MORE than enough torque) and JR 8411's on the elevator/rudder. My engine is mounted inverted with a remote glow plug and a Robart Ultra Fueler for the pressurized fuel system. The plane is a FABULOUS performer and has MORE than enough power for the weight of the plane. I started out with an open exhaust and have since switched to the Performance Specialties muffler with the rotatable exhaust positioning. It's a fabulous combination. A 20 oz fuel tank and an 1800 mAh NiCad give nice long flights with no fuss. I haven't had a single dead stick with the engine (the norm with YS) and the engine pulls the plane through easy knife edge loops on a full fuel tank. 3D type flying is easy with the throws cranked up, but I usually fly more tame flights with the plane because it is just so darn pretty in the air. The bottom line is you'll love the plane no matter what you have in it, but I definitely wouldn't waste the $$ for the DZ when you can get great performance for a couple of hundred dollars less.
Good Luck!
Ron

Man, Am I depressed!
 

I lost my CG Ultimate Sunday. Went straight in, total loss. I'm so depressed right now I'm ready to chuck the whole thing (flying).

I have about 20-30 flights on mine. No problems at all. I've been getting into IMAC and some 3D stuff. No problems. Never saw any bad tendencies in any flight mode. Well last week one day I was out a ways and turning to come back and almost lost her. she was going straight at the ground and not responding. I saved it about 30 feet from the ground. Well not so lucky this time. I was flying straight away from me, doing some trim checking and I think I may have let her get to far out. Don't know. Was turning around at about 1/2 trottle she just quit flying and went straight in, would not respond to an elevator command at all. Only thing I know is that I was on low rates and pretty far out. I guess one of a few things happened. I got to slow in the turn without enough power and she stalled. Then I didn't have enough elevator on low rates to pull her out. Or I just got to far away and had an interupted signal. I just loved this plane. Right now I'm about ready to just quit! I hadn't flown anything else I owned since getting the Ultimate. I've crashed a lot planes, but this one hurt.

Steve

Ultimate Biplane
 

Steve - Did the pilot survive? He's survived through about 3 airplanes and 8 or so years of flying before taking over the stick on that Ultimate. Sorry to hear about the plane. Hope you get a replacement soon and get back on the horse!
Ron

CG Ultimate Bipe
 

If you guys are looking for an CG Ultimate Bipe, There is a place in Minneapolis MN. that has them on hand.

Do a search for "Hobby Warehouse". His number is listed in some postings.

And he is selling them at a really desent price, 299.99.

Also the cheapest place to buy Saito motors.

Ethal86

Hobby Warehouse
 

Here is the number 612-861-5587.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Oh, hey Ron. The only thing that survived was the top wing, pilot and spinner. Go figure. The muffler bracket cracked at the head so the engine may be a loss also. She was not spinning or twisting. Just going straight down and hit on the edge of a grain field about 150 yards out. I am really perplexed and now convinced that little near mis last week is related. In both cases I was in a high bank turn to the left. I'm no expert, but I'm not that bad either. Anyway, here is a pic of your beautiful plane.

Great vision probably hurt
 

As a Naval Aviator (A4's right?) you've probably got great vision. If so, you most likely did fly out of range. Or far enough away that there was a signal interruption. You and Chuck Yeager need to learn that RC stuff is made for the average folk ;)

Really sorry to hear about the Ultimate. :( You have to get another one quick! :)


Get a 60 size Ultra stick (or use an old plane). Throw all your gear into that and test it out. Let's stay away from those "real long range checks". :p

It's probably fine. Then get a new CG Ultimate and put it back in that. Doing this will bring back that comfort level so you won't over-think things.

The bright side is now you don't have to mess with the throttle linkage on that old worn out Ultimate you were Flying.

Military men aren't quitters! :mad: We come back stronger and better prepared. Let's here about that new ultimate you're going to build! :cool:

Scott

Ultimate Biplane
 

Yeah, actually I was not all that depressed. More like pissed off. I had just fixed the throttle. Luckily I had not gone to the trouble of moving the elevator servos yet, thank god. I almost did it the night before.

I talked to YS today and they say their distributors should have the new YS110's by the end of June. A Hobby Warehouse Ultimate and the 110. Hmmmm.


PS: Scott, how did you know I flew A-4's?

Previous thread
 

I was trying to explain about "fanning" the elevator of my ultimate on approach. You mentioned that you flew A4's and couldn't figure out what the heck I was doing. :D

At only 150 yards it probably wasn't a distance thing that caused the crash. On certain frequencies at certain places you can get frequency interference. I've had it happen on a perfectly good system, and been able to repeat it. That may have been what happened to you. You probably want to check that out before committing this same gear to a good plane.

If you've got an old plank you can throw all your gear in, it will really increase your confidence when you put this stuff in a new plane.

As for the engine, you would be amazed at what you can do with JB weld. I once had to make a complete thermostat housing for a boat engine to get home!
Worked great! I just had to spend an extra weekend on the island (tough life ;) )

Glad to hear you're gonna get another Ultimate. I can't imagine not having one in the fleet.

Best of luck,

Scott

Ultimate Biplane
 

Sorry to hear of your crash.. I miss mine, but I bought another kit plus glass pants and cowel, so this winter I'll be framing it up. I had an old, tired SuperTiger 90 in it with an old Jtec manafold, and it flew very nicely.. That same engine came out of a TopFlight P-47 that went straight in cuz some jerk was testing his engine in the pits @ a funfly with no freq pin. The plane was nothing but splinters, and the engine's carb broke right off.. I jb-welded that engine back together not expecting it to run, but it ran just like it did before with no problems. No 3d, but it'd hover on the prop, and would keep going vertical wide open.. slowly, but it'd keep chugging. Loved that airplane. I have an OS 1.20 surpass pumped laying around calling out for the new ultimate once it's built :) It was the best behaved planes I've ever had, right next to my Goldberg Extra 300.

deck

Ultimate Biplane
 

Actually I had not thought about JB weld. The only thing that broke was one side of the exhaust manifold mount were the screw goes in. I may be able easily JB weld it.

As to the Goldberg Ultimate. One good thing that has happened, if you can call it that, is that I have gotten a real good look at how this plane was built. I got to say I am amazed at the overall quality of the construction throughout the plane. It's very solid and the wood quality is high. Goldberg has done several nice things like installing an antenna rod, pre-installing the tail mounting nuts, cutting holes for the cabanes, etc, etc. I got to admit that I thought the Klett tailwheel looked a little gimicky at first. but it is one great tailwheel. While I am not a fan of Y elevator rods; but at least goldberg included a DB fiberglass rod instead of the wood sticks most manufacturers use; and a very accurate template for assemblying the rod.

None of the servo mounts, engine mounts, wing mounts broke in the crash. Everything else did, but not the mounts.

Ultimate Biplane
 

Man; I hate to see that. Good news about the quality construction, though.

A question, though; did you put those yellow stripes on the top of the wings, or did the kit come with them?

I ask because all the photos I've seen of this ARF do not show the upper wing surface stripes. They do make a difference in the model's visibility, so I need to know whether to plan on getting some Dark Yellow U-Cote to do them with.

No bites on the helicopter I need to sell before I can get one of these... bummer.

Steve