RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

David, the supplied mount would not work for my motor. It was to narrow. I had to use another mount and with my motor being heavy as it is I wanted to move it back a little so as to balance a little better. it seems to be ok, do you think I will have problems with this setup?

Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Didn't you use an ST90? I didn't realize that they were that much bigger than an OS. I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. If you left the engine out further on the mount you could have probably balanced it out bu moving your battery back behind the servos and/or adding a very small amount of weight to the aft end of the fuse. The distance from the CofG to the back end of the plane is so much longer than the distange between your engine and the CofG, the long "lever" of the fuse lets you ad very small amounts of weight to compensate for a heavier engine.

I just checked, the ST is only 1.22 oz heavier than the OS. Not much compensation would be required at all.

Can you post a pic without the cowl?

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Hay David:

I'm using a TigerShark .91 red head and it's a monster. The weight with the pitts muffler is around 31 ounces.....Heres an interesting thing My scales will only read up to 5 lbs, so I can't weigh the bird all together. This thing is supposed to weigh around 8.25 to 8.75 lbs RTF. Now the fuse RTF weighs 4 pounds 15 ounces and the wing RTF comes in at 2 lbs. my sifering brings the bird RTF in at 6 pounds 15 ounces. Wonder whats wrong??
Heres a couple of picts, check it out.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Wow you sure have a lot of fuel line snaking around your engine...

That doesn't cause problems while running does it ???

When I get a chance I'll post some pics of how I set things up...

Sam

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Well Sam I don't know yet, I have not run it yet with this set up. Remember your seeing both the feed and return line. My GP Extra was set up this way so I could go underneith and get at the fuel line for filling. I hate inline fuel systems and it worked fine in the GP 300, I put a splice in the line right where the cowl is open for the muffler to exit. As long as the return is making enough pressure you can get away with a little longer line if you don't put a bunch of goodies inline.
Hope to maiden today sometime as long as the wind don't get up, yesterday it was gusting up to 25 to 30 mph but it seems to be pretty light today so far. Everyone cross your fingers.
There is room for a bit of that line to be cut out.

Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Maiden a success!!!
Yes she flew this afternoon.went up and up and up and up, Think she needs a little down thrust!!LOL all the down trim I had at full speed, and the motor was not acting right either. The motor has not ran since the last hole it dug so it must be a little trash in the system. Dead stick after about ten minutes or so at about 250 feet. Got her down without any trouble and headed to the house to correct the thrust problem and finish the cowl.


Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

David Cutler Question,.....or anyone else for that matter

Great day for flying. Light and variablr winds and just a little stronger for brief periods. The snap situation is pretty much taken care of and I moved the CG forward to about the 4" mark. Got rid of the foam wheels and put 3" dubro rubbers on. It allowed me to remove all but a very small piece of lead.

Flying around today was great, but ran into the floating problem today that everyone talks about.....but with a twist. Comming in for approach everything is fine, until I get down to just above idle. When at the point of just above idle and ready to chop, it balloons! First thing we look at is balance, but it is at the front most portion of the range, and a tiny bit nose heavy if nothing else. I cannot remember this happening on any other flights. So couple of decent landings, and then I had a rough one and had to bend the gear back. Had to take one of the wheels off to get at the spot that needed bending. Anyway, one of the guys and I start talking about the thrust. Mine is set up with right thrust only and no up or down. Remember this is only at low speed. Crank her up and she flys like an arrow.

We talk a little more and decide to mix in a little down elevator to the throttle. Tried a few clicks up high and it was way too much! Landed and adjusted and after a couple more trys, it ends up being 1 click of down elevator at just above idle speed. He flew it around and did some of the best landings the plane has made since flying. The mix is programmed to an extra switch, so in regular flight, it can be turned off, but when ready to land, just flip a switch and the mix is there. We decided to go around one more time and that's when it happened.........remember that wheel I had to take off? At about 250 feet in a shallow turn we see something fall from the plane. At this point I am praying that it's the muffler, but the engine keeps running so I know it was something else.....left wheel. O.K. couple of low passes with the switch and we decide to go for it.......he did a great job, but as soon as the wheel-less side of the gear caught, it sheared the nylon bolts and the plane bellied in. Part of the gear punctured the wing...Already fixed. Both bulkheads that hold the bellypan in place (Edge) sheared.....30 min fix. Cosmetic damage on Cowl underside I'll leave alone since I'm getting another cowl anyway. Two dings in horizontal stab...already fixed. Pretty fortunate considering how it could have turned out, and if I had been at the sticks, I'm sure it would have been worse.

Sorry to be so long winded, but here's the question. What else could be causing this balloonning at such low speed? Everything I have been taught suggests that what is happening is typical tail heavy behavior, but I assure you that it's not. Next comes thrust. Should I try adding a little down thrust? I really don't want to do this because of the potential for it to affect everything else. I guess the mix may have fixed it, but we just didn't have enough time to play around with it to know for sure before the incident. Does anyone else have these low speed ballooning characteristics? I know that people say these planes have a tendency to float. I can deal with a float, but when you know that it should be sinking, and it just rises, it is really freaky because the speed is getting down and a snap is just right around the corner.

Can't fly on Sunday, as I'm going to Vegas for a week. Back in the air hopefully next Sunday, so I have a week to evaluate any suggestions. So please fire away.

Miloh, looking good over there, did you get the maiden in?

John

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Hi John,

If you are happy the CG is not too far back, and it sounds like it isn't, the floating won't be caused by the balance. It also isn't the thrust line.

It may be partly your landing technique. After lining up to land, try coming down with a little more authority, that is, a slightly steeper angle. Have a couple of clicks of throttle and 'fly' it down while losing air speed. Remember that elevator controls speed, and throttle controls height. I know that sounds wrong, but ask any full size aircraft pilot! At about 10 feet chop the throttle and coax her down. The Edge is much more lenient in terms of tip stalling, so you should be able to bleed the speed off in the last few feet without the fear of rolling (although, be ready for it!).

What prop have you settled to using? When I fitted a 16x4 (from a 15x10) the plane almost stops when you chop the throttle, which is a great help in the final stages of landing!

I confess it's only the last few landings where I have been able to match speed with height well enough to make smooth bounce-free landings, and I think (hope!) I have got used to the incredible efficiency of the wing, (especially when you consider how thin it is),

Best of luck....It'll come!

-David C.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

hay John, if you look at post 431 you will see the maiden story for me. But.... on my way long landing mine balooned as you say, I haden't given it any thought until I read your post. but now I remember it doing somthing kinda strange right before touchdown. I did add a little down thrust to mine this afternoon after the maiden so I'll see tomorrow what it helped or hurt.

Cya, Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

David,

Thanks for the input. I think you are pretty much right on. After I went back and read my post, I started thinking about my technique. My landing proceedure is as follows:

Long downwind shallow turn and set up for approach
long flat approach and bleed speed with throttle
At about 20 - 25 feet is where the balloons are happening....I also reflected on the conditions.....head winds were up a bit off and on and we were joking about the wind starting to blow everytime I put the starter in my hands. Wind could have been a factor too. When I snuck out this past thesday, this did not happen that I remember.

I think that a combination of your description above and the mixing, may take care of it. Basically, it looks like I am comming in too long and shallow. Bleeding speed solely with throttle won't work on this plane apparently. I think if I steepen the AOA on the center line and do as you say, fly it down a little more aggressively, things should be a little better next time and I should be able to make a confident flare instead of "limping" it in. Hell, what am I gonna do....rip out the gear?...Already done that twice....LOL

The throttle elevator mix was really cool though and I would recommend it to anyone as something to try out.....made a big difference.

Miloh: We must have been typing at the same time. As soon as I got done, there was your maiden report. Congrats.

John

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

David,

Forgot about the prop. Actually have not settled on anything yet. Have flown with the 14 x 8, 14 x 6, and 15 x 6. So far the 15 x 6 was the best all around. Was thinking about going to a 15 x 8 or 16 x 4 or 5. Right now with the props I have used, I don't think the top end of the engine is being fully utilized.

Engine Saito 91.

John

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Glad to hear a little more about your balooning deal at 20 to 23 feet cause thats not what happend to me. I went long past the runway and I was dead stick. about a foot off the groung it flaired real big and I dont remember pulling back but I might have as it was just about to go over a rise out of sight. it touched down once and bounced over the rise and fliped over on it's back. no damage what so ever just a long walk.
My all up weight is around 7 pounds according to my digital scales. had to put the battery in back of the servo compartment and it balanced perfect. The .91 two stroke yanked it off the ground like a it was shot out of a slingshot, The motor didn't stay running but about.......10 minutes or so. did a through cleaning of the carb. Seems to be sucking a little air.
I'm sure I will need a larger tank for this fuel hog. my gear held up very well and overall it was pretty nice. I will get out sooner tomorrow and get a few flights in.
Have a nice trip next week.

Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Hey guys, I was the unfortunately soul who did the one-wheel landing on John's Edge today. Here's what it was doing for me, and I can tell you that with the way she was acting, this was the hardest plane I've ever landed.

I think the engine has too much down thrust in it, at full throttle, she has a tendancy to nose over, this is apparent on a long, straight, full throttle pass (regardless of wind direction). When pulling back to idle, even at slow speeds, the nose lifts.

I tried several techniques:

1. High approach, cut throttle to high idle on base, then to idle on final, when the throttle is cut to idle, the plane immediately pulls her nose up, as if the elevator stick had been gently pulled back. This immediately bleeds of all speed, and she snaps to the right before the nose finally pushes over.

2. Mid approach, idle on final (which then causes her to balloon), put a few click of power in and push the nose over, when cut to idle and attempting to flare, she again balloons and snaps right.

3. Mid approach, and put in down elevator when the throttle is cut to idle, flew it straight down the approach and didn't flare, it was a tad rough but at a safe speed!

4. Put in a 1 unit of down elevator mixed in when throttle is at 1/4 or below, this kept the nose from ballooning and approach and made for a nice landing. (Have to keep the speed up though!)

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

My Edge has zero down thrust and it has a very nice slow speed approach with a 91 FX. Dont try to final very shallow and long, better to bring her in with a controlled power glide type descent and smoothly reduce power as it comes near the ground. I would even consider some up thrust if it baloons when power is chopped. But right now mine seems just about perfect with zero up or down thrust.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

I was thinking it needed a little up thrust as well. Even in a steep approach she will climb when the throttle is pulled back. The radio mix did the trick and it would probably easier just to mix down elevator on low throttle and a little up elevator on full throttle. The amount of mix required to tame the landing was barely noticeable to the naked eye.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

At some point someone had posted that they ran up thrust on thier Extra. Seems strange to me, but whatever works!

The Edge is supposed to behave better than the Extra at low speeds. I can get my Extra to land nicley by keeping a couple pf clicks of throttle on all the way to the runway and chop it to idle as soon as the plane is over the strip. Resist the urge to flare until the wheels are inches off the ground and the airspeed is bled off.

Having a nice low idle and a big, low-pitch prop should see you landing at a walking pace!

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

My Extra with neutral vert thrust wants to climb like crazy. levels off pretty good at half throttle so I added a little down and will try again today. It is very nice and easy to handle on takeoff run with just a tad of right thrust. It is much better than my GP extra ever was.

Miloh out.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

It seems to me that teh Extra is pretty sensitive to thrust angles. I had one waher under the left and top sides of my emgine mount originally, and the plane flew well. The last time I had my engine off I added more down and right thrust to get closer to the specs in the manual. I added a thicker washer under the top and left sides. I really didn't like the way it flew like that. I have another engine change coming up, as I have secured the Canadian distribution rights for MVVS engines so I will be putting it back to where it was before. Big crate-o-engines showing up Tuesday!

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Great David, keep us informed on pricing and availability on those motors. I'm looking to go up a size for my next bird to a 1.20/1.60 and will need power for it. Vector is not committed as of yet but say they are studying the possibility of a larger Extra.

Miloh.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

I've talked to them about that too. It's supposed to be in the 70-74" range and using 1.6 glow for power. I can't wait to try out one of the small gassers!

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

One more point if I may, sometime a plane which tries to climb too much may have the aielrons acting a bit like flaps which act like a high incidence wing. This can be more pronounced on a hard wing such as the VF airplanes as the wings do not tend to mush and provide strong lift till the last. I usually try to set both ailerons slightly higher at zero position if the wings are giving too much lift, usually will work without having to down thrust the engine. Once all these variables are set, which can take quite a bit of experimenting, both the VF Edge and the Extra will drop the nose slightly when power is chopped, a bit more drop with the Extra. M2cW![8D]

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Excellent point Calflyer!!

Oooh John? Read this! It is the most likely cause of your problem yet!

-David C.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

Hi Flyers, Just a heads up. Was out at the field today and a fellow with a VT Edge had the red paint on the belly pan comming off in sheets. It's apparently not fuel-proof. His kit is approximately 3 months old. Don't know if VF is aware of this, or if anything has been done to correct it, or if any other painted pieces will have this problem. Might be able to save paint if it's fuelproofed before seeing any nitro.Anyone else having peeling paint?

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

my cowl came unpainted and I think they all do, If so the one you saw was painted by the owner. do you know if this one you saw was painted by the factory? My extra has no paint on it anywhere now that I think of it.


Miloh.

Sorry I ment to say bellypan.

RE: VectorFlight 300s, anygood?
 

When my Edge arrived some months ago, VF said they were so snowed under with orders that they had to send mine out before the cowl paint had properly hardened. It was dry, but not yet fully hard.

It's been perfectly OK up to now, though.

I don't know if this has any bearing on the belly pan you talk about.

-David C.