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RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: Tseres Just like to ask you guys to keep Politics out of the thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I try to use RC as an escape from Politics. Thanks ahead of time for granting me this. DITTO |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Sorry guys - I hope I didn't offend. But I do want you all to know, I actually plan to, as time goes on, figure out a way to make my business generate morejobs here. Thatis an ambition of mine.
NOW, back to flying!! :) |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
hmmmmmm....
I'll keep that thought to myself. Just stating facts is all. Love the plane, can't wait until...........next year............... so I can get one. :D Business friendly in Northern Nevada, and you'd already have an applicant. LOL |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: RedwingRC Sorry guys - I hope I didn't offend. But I do want you all to know, I actually plan to, as time goes on, figure out a way to make my business generate more jobs here. That is an ambition of mine. NOW, back to flying!! :) |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
I'm back home from the IMAA meet. We have a new 30cc Sboch pilot. My friend and IMAC instructor Mike Karnes took a turn on the plane. As it turned out he was the only one. The weather was to windy for me to enjoy myself so I didn't fly.
He really put it through the paces and was impressed with how well it flew. The engine had even more power today since it was cool and it never got to 60F all day. All I can say is this Sboch in the hands of a competent RC pilot is a joy to watch. The few people that was there showed a lot of interest in the plane and the engine.[sm=thumbs_up.gif] |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
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RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: AirTech ORIGINAL: T3beatz ORIGINAL: fhm101 Hey folks... I'm thinking I'm going to be free of taking care of sick doggies soon and I've been eyeing the Redwing 50cc Sbach. I've got some limited gas experience, but it's been on planes that didn't demand a lot of (electrical) power to run the servos so I've done fine with a pack for the receiver and one for the ignition. I'd like to also move up to a 2.4 radio rig, but I have no idea what I might need in the way of electrical components to make sure I don't pull my power supply down too low and force a system reset. I've been doing some reading, but most of what I've read assumes familiarity with the various system components and how they work together. Could someone with knowledge of these onboard power systems provide as simplistic as possible explanation of what components I would need to set up a dual battery system for my flight electronics and how to set them up?. Also, should I consider using the same system with a regulator to power my ignition, or should I stick with a separate system for that? Thanks in advance for any and all your help with this. Oh and BTW, if this is not the right place to ask these questions, please accept my apologies. <div style=''margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; ''>FHM101,<div> </div><div><span class=''Apple-tab-span'' style=''white-space: pre; ''> </span>Tim is not kidding about how the 50cc Sbach flies, I took it up for a flight and its great, I didn't do any 3d stuff but I did do some normal sport flying and its on rails. The plane does not want to stall, it just floats, you have to get the speed down to walking speed and it just sits down nicely. I love the way it looks also, its a crowd pleaser. </div><div> </div><div>And as far as setup, I do redundant setups on all my gassers that I think can handle the extra weight (even on the 25% MX2). I'm not real fancy with my setups I just use the KISS method, 2 batteries (NiMH) into 2 switches, into two different ports of the RX.</div><div> </div><div>Now when it comes to wiring in the ignition things may get a tad complicated... I power my ignition off of the 2 RX batteries and switches so that my ignition is redundant also. I have took the time to make a simple diagram of how my MX2 is setup... I have no remote Ignition kill switch on the MX2 like the RCexel ignition kill so I just use a BEC wired to a simple RX switch to turn the ignition on and off (if either of the RX switches are on). Most people will advise to use an ignition kill on anything over 25% or that uses a big gas engine. I don't use one one the MX2 because of the way its wired up... If my RX loses power my ignition does also so everything goes out, and if my throttle servo goes out or my linkage comes loose I have no problem flying the plane out of gas until she is ready to come in for a landing.[img][/img] If my RX goes into lockout I have my failsafe set on the RX so the throttle will go to the lowest point (killing the engine). You can also just get one of the IBEFs that people are selling to eliminate the ignition switch and the regulator all together as stated before.</div></div><br type=''_moz'' /> That is good a good practice as far as installing dual batteries. The problem with that is that there is no battery isolation. If one battery shorts one cell the load will consume the other battery since they are wired in parallel. A Smart-Fly BatShare will shutdown the defective pack and prevent that. Believe me I have seen planes with two batteries on the receiver crash because one battery went dead and pulled the remaining battery down. Besides that a BatShare will always use the highest voltage pack alternately effectively providing you with the combined capacity of both packs. In that way you may use two batteries of different ''capacities'' and neither battery will draw energy from one another. In my experience I don't worry much on providing redundancy for the ignition system, I rather have onboard kill switch capability. It's not that bad when your throttle gets stuck in flight, the problem is when you have a runaway on the ground with no means of shutting off the ignition. By the way AMA. IMAC and IMA suggest you should have an electronic means of shutting down your engine in flight as well as a mechanical switch to do so on the ground. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Kerwin50, more info on diodes will help me a lot, I've been trying to figure out how to do it for a while but I've never just taken the time to do the research. How would you go about using a diode?<div>
</div><div>If you have pictures or a diagram that would help greatly. I'm a visual learner!LOL...</div> |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
1 Attachment(s)
ORIGINAL: kerwin50 ORIGINAL: AirTech ORIGINAL: T3beatz ORIGINAL: fhm101 Hey folks... I'm thinking I'm going to be free of taking care of sick doggies soon and I've been eyeing the Redwing 50cc Sbach. I've got some limited gas experience, but it's been on planes that didn't demand a lot of (electrical) power to run the servos so I've done fine with a pack for the receiver and one for the ignition. I'd like to also move up to a 2.4 radio rig, but I have no idea what I might need in the way of electrical components to make sure I don't pull my power supply down too low and force a system reset. I've been doing some reading, but most of what I've read assumes familiarity with the various system components and how they work together. Could someone with knowledge of these onboard power systems provide as simplistic as possible explanation of what components I would need to set up a dual battery system for my flight electronics and how to set them up?. Also, should I consider using the same system with a regulator to power my ignition, or should I stick with a separate system for that? Thanks in advance for any and all your help with this. Oh and BTW, if this is not the right place to ask these questions, please accept my apologies. <div style=''margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; ''>FHM101,<div> </div><div><span class=''Apple-tab-span'' style=''white-space: pre; ''> </span>Tim is not kidding about how the 50cc Sbach flies, I took it up for a flight and its great, I didn't do any 3d stuff but I did do some normal sport flying and its on rails. The plane does not want to stall, it just floats, you have to get the speed down to walking speed and it just sits down nicely. I love the way it looks also, its a crowd pleaser. </div><div> </div><div>And as far as setup, I do redundant setups on all my gassers that I think can handle the extra weight (even on the 25% MX2). I'm not real fancy with my setups I just use the KISS method, 2 batteries (NiMH) into 2 switches, into two different ports of the RX.</div><div> </div><div>Now when it comes to wiring in the ignition things may get a tad complicated... I power my ignition off of the 2 RX batteries and switches so that my ignition is redundant also. I have took the time to make a simple diagram of how my MX2 is setup... I have no uremote Ignition kill switch on the MX2 like the RCexel ignition kill so I just use a BEC wired to a simple RX switch to turn the ignition on and off (if either of the RX switches are on). Most people will advise to use an ignition kill on anything over 25% or that uses a big gas engine. I don't use one one the MX2 because of the way its wired up... If my RX loses power my ignition does also so everything goes out, and if my throttle servo goes out or my linkage comes loose I have no problem flying the plane out of gas until she is ready to come in for a landing.[img][/img] If my RX goes into lockout I have my failsafe set on the RX so the throttle will go to the lowest point (killing the engine). You can also just get one of the IBEFs that people are selling to eliminate the ignition switch and the regulator all together as stated before.</div></div><br type=''_moz'' /> That is good a good practice as far as installing dual batteries. The problem with that is that there is no battery isolation. If one battery shorts one cell the load will consume the other battery since they are wired in parallel. A Smart-Fly BatShare will shutdown the defective pack and prevent that. Believe me I have seen planes with two batteries on the receiver crash because one battery went dead and pulled the remaining battery down. Besides that a BatShare will always use the highest voltage pack alternately effectively providing you with the combined capacity of both packs. In that way you may use two batteries of different ''capacities'' and neither battery will draw energy from one another. In my experience I don't worry much on providing redundancy for the ignition system, I rather have onboard kill switch capability. It's not that bad when your throttle gets stuck in flight, the problem is when you have a runaway on the ground with no means of shutting off the ignition. By the way AMA. IMAC and IMA suggest you should have an electronic means of shutting down your engine in flight as well as a mechanical switch to do so on the ground. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Flew my Redwing Sbach yesterday after work. Gotta love what Tim has done reinforcing the landing gear with two very beefy alum angles. I currently have 3 birds down with LG issues. Not that the Redwing Sbach needed the reinforcing since it lands like a butterfly with sore feet, but I'd never know if I had to ditch in the rough field due to a flameout.
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RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Regarding the diode, I would put one in each switch. You will need at least a 3A diode and place its cathode side (banded end) to the side of the positive lead that goes to the receiver.
Placing the diode in each switch (instead of on the battery lead) will allow you to charge the batteries normally. Two switches with diodes and two batt packs will give you redundancy. The 3A diode is 2 to 3 times the size of your regular 1N4001, 1N4002, etc. I would solder the diode and try to fit it inside the switch if there's room, or use epoxy to encapsulate it to the outside of the switch. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: coronabob Regarding the diode, I would put one in each switch. You will need at least a 3A diode and place its cathode side (banded end) to the side of the positive lead that goes to the receiver. Placing the diode in each switch (instead of on the battery lead) will allow you to charge the batteries normally. Two switches with diodes and two batt packs will give you redundancy. The 3A diode is 2 to 3 times the size of your regular 1N4001, 1N4002, etc. I would solder the diode and try to fit it inside the switch if there's room, or use epoxy to encapsulate it to the outside of the switch. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: coronabob Flew my Redwing Sbach yesterday after work. Gotta love what Tim has done reinforcing the landing gear with two very beefy alum angles. I currently have 3 birds down with LG issues. Not that the Redwing Sbach needed the reinforcing since it lands like a butterfly with sore feet, but I'd never know if I had to ditch in the rough field due to a flameout. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Mine hovers nice and easy, knife edge tucks to landing gear (or is it to the canopy?), rudder and elevator are powerful, snaps inside or outside can be nice and slow or fast and violent, harriers with little to no wing rocks, with DLE30 only needs WOT only if you want to show off.
Mine weighs around 11.5 lbs. I balance it probably 1" behind the wing tube and it flies inverted with a tiny bit of down. Got several compliments by the guys on how good it looks and flies. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
I had the GP CAP 232 27% that tried to tuck to gear in knife edge. I moved the CG to be about 1/32" tail heavy and it stopped. Don't know about this one.
That's measured 1/32" on a ruler with proper CG being at 0". I only used that much to start with because I didn't want to be too tail heavy, but found out 1/32" did the trick. Blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes.....LOL |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
guys you gave a really great explanation.
I ran alk's mainly because the way they hold a charge. I'm really excited reading about the sabach, because it's so hard to find a plane that flat spins great. I've got a twist that really flat spins an I've been searching for a new plane that can flatspin as good as her |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: CowboyLifesaver I had the GP CAP 232 27% that tried to tuck to gear in knife edge. I moved the CG to be about 1/32'' tail heavy and it stopped. Don't know about this one. That's measured 1/32'' on a ruler with proper CG being at 0''. I only used that much to start with because I didn't want to be too tail heavy, but found out 1/32'' did the trick. Blind squirrel finds the nut sometimes.....LOL When an aerobatic aircraft (whit 0-0-0 incidence) demonstrates sustained knife-edge flight with a bank angle of 90 degrees the aircraft weight is no longer sustained by the wing instead it's the fuselage and the vertical tail at a high angle of attack that provides the lifting vector. In fact this aircraft is acting similarly as when in a high angle of attack climbing condition and its propulsive asymmetry (torque) will force it to turn towards the canopy. Now this concept only applies to aircraft's with 0-0-0 incidence. If you have any amount of positive incidence in any of your flying surfaces the tuck will be towards the opposite direction. I don't see how CG will have any effect in altering propulsive asymmetry. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: kerwin50 coronabob you gave a really great explanation. I ran alk's mainly because the way they hold a charge. I'm really excited reading about the sabach, because it's so hard to find a plane that flat spins great. I've got a twist that really flat spins an I've been searching for a new plane that can flatspin as good as her |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
I never flew on alk's on my gassers they were threre for batt back-up for my 5 cell nicad's. The only time they would ever kick in is if my ni cads would drop below 1.1 volts per cell.
You can also put a led with a 300 ohm resistor in parallel with your diode, that way the led lights when ever the alk's are being used. I've never had it switch over but I havn't done it in years, I quit flying gasser in 96 But I am thinking really hard about it now |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
ORIGINAL: kerwin50 I never flew on alk's on my gassers they were threre for batt back-up for my 5 cell nicad's. The only time they would ever kick in is if my ni cads would drop below 1.1 volts per cell. You can also put a led with a 300 ohm resistor in parallel with your diode, that way the led lights when ever the alk's are being used. I've never had it switch over but I havn't done it in years, I quit flying gasser in 96 But I am thinking really hard about it now |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
I get that.[:o] Really, I do.[sm=idea.gif]
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RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
This thread has turned out to be an excellent one. Well done Tom!
My 30cc Sbach has come along well. The engine is mounted. I used the MVVS26cc. Because of the front carburettor, I had to clightly open the airscoop below the prop but that was the only cut I had to make to the cowl. My plane has a cockpit floor and an instrument panel pod. This is something the factory has done for me as a special order because I preferred that look. So far, I'm quite happy with the quality. Lightweight, strong and true built and the accessories are pretty good (tahnks to Tim's work with the factory)! I also have two more on the way. One is a 30% Sbach from the same source. 87" Wing span. The other is a 90" span Sbach that comes from HiFly Models but I'm their distributor in Australia. Mine will be an early release (they are not publicly available yet) and I will most likely be helping out writing the assembly manual for it. The plan is to run a separate build thread on that one. Being 90", it is in the upper range of what a normal 50cc can handle so I will be using an MVVS58cc. This planes was designed with the MT70 twin in mind but I don't have any of them and the MVVS is one powerful engine! My workshop will be like an Sbach factory soon :) |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Built it nose heavy like always. Fixed the CG tuck went away. It was that plane didn't say it was with all of them. Just putting my .02 in there
Or is it, after my previous posts you didn't like. you feel the urge to degrade me at every occasion now? It would, after all, be the M.O. of someone who disagrees with my ideology. |
RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
I don't think that Airtech was trying to bad mouth you or say that you don't know what you are doing. But you have to admit that a 1/32 of an inch is really hard to measure. Could there have been a trim issue there. I know that my planes trims will change from flight to flight. We are talking ONE click of trim for a well set up plane. But that could always be a possibilty. I don't think that he was attacking your ideology. Everybody does things differently, we all find things that work for ourselves, and maybe not for others. That is one of the things that makes flying RC great. I love to listen to other flyers and consider what works for them, and if I can apply their suggentions and have it work for me then great. If not I just take what works for me and leave the rest behind. I do this for fun!
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RE: Redwing 30cc Sbach Build
Hey CL. I think you took things the wrong way. I know AirTech personally and I'm sure he didn't mean anything the way you took it.
Your comments and experiences are just as valuable as anyones. Engineering is a science. Then you have to have people to make it a reality. I also had experience with the plane changing in tucking in a knife edge when changing the CG. My Sboch also tucks to the belly. By moving the C/G back it seemed to tuck less. To me it doesn't matter as much "Why" but knowing why helps. What does mater is what we can do to counter it. |
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