Hi y'all

Happy New Year 2011.

I'd like to ask a question, that goes to Electric/EDF, Glow Engine, Gasser and Turbine engines. We all know that when the plane is ready to hit the runway we gotta push the stick gradually to the full throttle then plane takes off and gets airborne. How about once the plane gets to the good safe altitude what should be the position of the throttle stick.

I usually fly full-throttle /WOT but do change it to half from time to time, naturally different people may have different practice, what I'm trying to ask that does it make if a plane is flown on a consistent full-throttle or not? I'd like to ask y'all your experiences and your practices what do you usually prefer your throttle's position 100, 3/4, 1/2 or 1/4.

Thank y'all in advance


Mody

Mody, you have asked an interesting question. There will be a hundred different answers! If I might pre-maturely summarize what most people will probably say, it depends on three things:
The type of plane you are flying, the style of flying you are doing, and the conditions you are flying in.
example:
If you are flying an underpowered plane or a small EDF, or flying into heavy winds, you are probably full throttle most of the time.

If you are flying a .60 sized Corsair with a .60 sized two stroke glow engine, you are probably 1/2 throttle or more most of the time.

If flying something more relaxing like a Cub, probably 1/4 to 1/2 throttle most of the time unless you are flying in heavy wind or you are testing its aerobatic limits. In calm winds, my 1/4 scale cub will fly 6" off the ground forever at 1/4 throttle or less and I enjoy doing this quite a bit. But If I am flying in 20mph winds (which I do quite often) it takes full throttle to keep the plane moving at any ground speed .

When flying my sport planes or practicing aerobatics, the throttle is all over the place during different manuevers. I.e. full throttle during the up leg of a loop, then cut to 1/4 on the down side. etc,

So you see, there is no definite answer. Just remember that there is more to a throttle than idle or wide open, there is a lot of fun to be missed in between.

My throttle is in constant movement, so are my other sticks unless I'm just flying around in cruse mode then it could be I'm using just enough power to keep the plane flying. I will tell you that I started to trim my planes for half throttle and it works out well for me. I have been taught over the years to trim at different throttle settings and half just seems to work for me. I fly a lot of different types of planes but for the most part I fly stunt and pattern planes. Like Hug mentioned, it does depend on the plane and how I want to fly it. My big bipes and planes like the cub I do tend to fly them slower or more scale. A full wing cub doing 80mph doing rolls and loops just looks wrong. A pattern plane doing 80 mph is about normal looking.

Hugger, Gray Beard

First of all Thanks a lot for sharing your great experiences with me. You both are absolutely right, there is no definite answer to it and this topic is a long going topic. I fly my Strega 40 with Magnum .46 XLS mostly full throttled, and lately I have started flying half to 3/4 throttled, which I tend to enjoy. Winds condition over here are usually 5 to 9 Mph range but gusts may exceed upto 14 Mph still ain't bad.

Tomorrow the wind is perfect 4 to 6 mph, mostly sunny, and I'm gonna fly my plane mostly 1/2 throttled. I have just ordered ASP's 2 Stroke .52 size engine which I read and heard is a great powerhouse and it's going to be delivered on Monday and I'm very excited about it to break in.

I swaying around these 3 planes, but

http://www.nitroplanes.com/20redyak523d.html -> I most likely wanna go with this as I never flown a yak, and I wanna do some good vertical climbs, some other good maneauvers

http://www.nitroplanes.com/90a119y-g...yellow-v2.html

http://www.nitroplanes.com/new20cmunatm.html


So again, with Magnum .46 on Strega I'm gonna try 1/2 throttle, but with Yak which I'd mostly like to get hopefully in couple of weeks, I'd like full throttle. Just asking one more thing, does half throttle make plane little vulnerable towards crash and does half and full throttle practice go same way with either 2 or 4 Stroke motors?


Thanks again

Mody

Not at all. If you are signed up to the on line magazine RC Report you can read Ed Moormans lessons each month, stunt flying. Ed is a great teacher. Reason I set my planes up for about 1/2 throttle trim for straight and level flying is because when you are going into most maneuvers you go into them straight and level at half throttle then add power as needed.
I teach my students with this, think of yourself driving a car at 50 mph, your just about to go up a hill, do you floor the peddle or do you just add throttle as you need it to stay at 50?? It's the same thing flying a plane, you cruse along then start to do a stunt, you roll on the power as needed, you don't floor it. Some manuvers are done at full throttle though. Read Eds dribble and you can learn pretty much everything you need to know.
Food for thought, the ASP is a Magnum so if you like the engines then look for sales on either one and buy the cheapest one.
Ed, Write the BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gene

I cannot afford the O.S. at the moment and I have a lot of things in the pipeline which I need to buy but financial constraints are there. Thank GOD for having a job. I'm also fixing to move back to Cypress area this March 2011. I have been pretty satisfied with Magnum, ASP is also made by Magnum that is what I'd come to know thru you guys. I wanted to try JBA they are blue colored Chinese engine. ASP .52 2 Stroke I had to pay $62 with free shipping, I think that's a great deal.

Now I gotta wait for the plane which I wanna get Yak of Nitro planes. I've not come across sales of Magnum or ASP, but I'd keep looking. I purchased it thru hobbypartz.com own Nitroplanes as well. They have good price servos as well.

But, I'm getting in there, my big goal is to get Futaba or Hitec's 6 or 7 channel 2.4 Ghz which I'm desperately waiting to get one.

Ed Moorman's lessons are available on internet?

Hey Mody, how's it going? I'll PM you.

For the experienced fliers (like Gray Beard) the stick keeps moving. For the rest of us the stick is mostly at 50% for glow airplanes.

Personally, I find that even with some wind, WOT is not necessary even at take-off on most of my airplanes. On my trainer I never ever went to WOT at takeoff (55ax, 65" span high winger). Then on my Tiger, I used it only when a takeoff run was not possible, or where there needed to be a hand-launch. On my Reactor and Topstar, I am able to takeoff at 60% throttle (55AX and FS91-SII resp). I sometimes go to WOT when I need to gain speed quickly or in the hover when it is about to fall out, but even that is very rare

As a foot-note, we found that most of the "40 sized" trainers can be flown even with a 32 size engine and you can do aerobatics also on the same if you manage the energy

Ameyam

Well my experiences are different, as mostly I have been flying Mustangs, shortly Escapade in fact both planes crashed. Current plane is Strega 40 with Magnum XLS on it, which I'm gonna fly half throttle to 3/4 throttle. My practice to even conventional high wing trainer or to any tail dragger, take off should always have WOT, cos you need the maximum power to get the plane airborne and gain a good altitude in case of any unfavorable condition so you may have enough altitude to recover the plane. I think any plane needs full throttle at the time of take off. Even 747 Jumbo needs to have 180 to 200Mph on full throttle at the time of take off.

High wing trainers do get airborne on 60% throttle provided wind is running 15MPH or more, that is my experience and people do have experience otherwise.


Mody

There are too many variables to say that models need a certain throttle position to take off. Full size airplanes usually take off at full power because they have a low power-to-weight ratio. The model aircraft we fly have much more power, and they rarely need full throttle to take off. More (head)wind means that slightly less throttle is required (the airplane will roll at a lower ground speed before taking off => less resistance).

In my opinion, there is no "perfect" throttle position for a plane. Again, full scale airplanes are different. All airplanes have a "best" angle of attack where there is less drag. Full scale airplanes are designed to cruise at this speed, in order to minimize fuel consumption. But we are talking about very small changes in angle of attack that are much too small to be noticed when flying models. Models have a much wider speed envelope than full scale airplanes, and they can take much more abuse in the air. This means that airspeed and throttle position isn't too important. Keep the airspeed up so the airplane won't stall, and don't go so fast that your control surfaces flutter. Anything in between is ok.

I usually put my elevator trim on a rotary knob. This makes it easy to adjust trim in flight. I adjust the trim to the speed I want to fly, and the plane flies level hands off at that speed. This way I can fly at 20% throttle when I want to, and full throttle when I want to.

Actually there is no " ideal" throttle position for takeoff or flying. And you dont need WOT for takeoff either. What you need for any airplane is sufficient air speed. Thats the energy I was mentioning. If you have sufficient air speed (builtup through sufficient takeoff run) you can takeoff with 60-70% throttle and still have some reserve power if needed. On the other hand, if you apply WOT and try to takeoff in as short a distance as possible, you may not have sufficient airspeed to recover if the engine cuts. That is with the engine and airplane configuration I have atleast. But then I am not exceeding the recommended engine size either. I found that with this setting you can easily climb to your desired flying altitude by doing a full circuit, during which time you may want to make any slight trim modifications

Ameyam

With my P51 Mustang, Escapade, and now Strega 40, my practice is still that I gradually push the throttle stick and keep the plane straight with rudder and until the stick reaches to full and I feel that ground speed is full I take off and try to a good altitude until my plane is safe from any disaster. I'd certainly agree with sandal that full speed some times does make the control surfaces flutter but not all the times.

There is no definite throttle speed, but in case of higher winds and while you are flying trainer, up coming push is enough to lift your plane and you get air borne within no time and this I also experienced. I never used flaps, and we don't use slats in model planes as they have much more power and don't need slat for enough lift. This topic would be debatable but I'd like my plane to take of on WOT.

Thanks guys a lot for your great input.

Mody: I was taught to do the same thing at take off, but once in the air, I turn left or right to downwind, reduce the throttle to a "cruise" speed, usually slightly over half, then trim the flight for hands off straight and level flight. Once that is done, I can go to any maneuver, then return to the same throttle setting and trim.

The instructor I had told me that the throttle is not an on-off switch, and taught me throttle control.

If you fly electrics, or if you ever intend to fly electrics, the one lesson you should get down is throttle control because if you don't, well, your flights will last about 5 minutes or less as you deplete your batteries much much faster with full throttle than you do when you fly with some control.

I just wanted to share that advice with you. You can fly any way you wish, but if you learn that the throttle is not just an on-off switch, well, I can guarantee you that you will have much more fun.

CGr.

I put an extra notch on my throttle stick at 2/3 throttle (like the one at center so you can feel where the stick is) this is my cruise setting on all my airplanes... if it is not right on any of them I adjust my throttle curve so that it will be correct at 2/3 throttle. this keeps a similar feel on all of my planes of course it my throttle is seldom at that position but it gives me a known place to move it back to to establish a horizontal line.

On my MKIII .60 size trainer that comes with the OS .65LA engine I usually fly 1/2 throttle ... This is more than enough to fly the regular field pattern circle (without using any rolls or loops ... I am still a beginner) ...

On my 60 size Protege with the MDS engine, I am flying 1/4 throttle ... There is a region in that engine from 1/4<->3/4 where the plane tends to have issues... the engine wants to stop ... (not to hijack the thread with problems ...)

So in other words, my style of flying is slow ... so I trim with the throttle low as others have suggested.

I found out that after doing the initial trim, IFyou change the throttle position at all, you have to go through another trimming exercise. Its very difficult to go back to the original throttle position if you shift.

Play around with the throttle and don't be scared to reduce/increase its settings while you are flying ...

I like to fly high and then slow the plane (trainer) as much as I can so I can get used to almost stalling speed. You never know when it may come handy.

Isn't this also true of glow engines?
If you increase RPMs, you will increase fuel consumption as we all know, and the increase is not linear due to frictional losses.
I think you just notice this more in electrics due to the addition of battery discharge efficiency rates.

I fly about 9 different planes throughout the week here in sunny Florida most of the year.
I fly them about 6 different ways. The slow planes get 1/2 throttle or less, but I do slam the stick forward for take off on everything since I flew my first trainer. Maybe it's habit, but it works with exception of ME-109, and Cubs. Those I "push" forward with better results and lots of right rudder on take off. I'd never fly my F-20 less than WOT, it's just not that kind of plane.

I'm not a calm day only flier, so full power take offs put me in my comfort zone quickly, or at least I think so and have success with it. I see no reason to change that routine to get in the air with a lot of authority, but certainly WOT cruising doesn't suit every plane in my hangar whatsoever, not for aerobatic planes especially.
My most enjoyable plane to wind down at the end of the day of white knuckling a fast plane, is my Telemaster 40 with Satio 56, just 2 clicks over idle. In a stiff breeze, the ground speed can be in the negative. I've flown a full tank before without needing to circle around. I like zero ground speed touch and go's! Saito 56 flown that way yeilds a 25 minute flight. I refuel in 2 minutes and can do it again. That's fun stuff.

I'm on a very small fixed income so I can't afford much of anything myself. I build from plans and do a lot of trading to get what I need so I understand. One engine I have used thank's to ED, is the SK engines sold through Kangke/Super Craft but I have only used there .91 so can't say anything good or bad about the other sizes of engines. The smaller ones are a bit different from the .91 in design. Every holiday Hobby People has a sale and the Magnums come up all the time. Usually one four stroke and one two stroke, that could be something to keep an eye open for. I signed up and get there sales flier. I buy my fuel from them when it comes up.
When RC Report closed there doors as a magazine it went to an on line magazine. It still has most of it's writers on staff so it is still a good one. Just do a google.
As to your throttle setting just start using it more and see how you like it. I fly with one fellow that I always teased about it. He was a WOT guy for years. This year he finally figured it out this last year and is a much smoother pilot. He also has great eye sight!! He will fly so far out I can't see his planes. He has no trouble at all seeing them.
Gene

Gene,

But on the bright side, it means you have lots of time to fly the planes you can't afford.
I'ts ironic how money and time never go hand in hand.
Happy new year, BTW!

Conway

I know RC and real flying are different but in the area of throttle management, I fly my rc planes just like I fly the fullsize ones. And that is, I use maxium throttle (or close to it) at takeoff and climb to altitude (or first turn). Then I reduce the throttle to a cruise setting which is usually about halfway on the fullsize and on my rc planes. Takeoff needs full throttle because while the airplane is on the ground it's a car and it's fighting rolling and wind resitence together. Once the wheels break free, the rolling resitance is removed and the energy used to break the rolling resitence will be converted to the energy for the aircraft to climb. A properly trimmed aircraft (real and rc) should be able to cruise along nicely at about half throttle (or slightly more) with no problems (accounting for wind, etc). Above cruise setting is so that you can climb. Remember, pointing the nose of an airplane upward is only part of how it climbs. The other part (which is the bigger part) is moving more air over the wings to create more lift. So that extra throttle past a cruise setting is so you can go up. The best example is a simple loop. You have to add throttle to enter one from level flight in most cases. Also, having some in reserve helps you get out of bad situations.

Take off power on some of my planes does require full power but it's the type of plane and the engine being used. My Ariel pattern plane requires full power and a long run out due to having a bit smaller engine then it could use, it's also a plane designed for speed, power is a YS 1.20FZ. My 60 size Hots will take off in about four feet if I open the throttle, it is powered with a YS 1.10 so the over kill is a bit stupid. The Ariel is a precision flying machine and doesn't seem to miss the extra power unless I want to go straight vertical. The Hots can cruise around with a high idle and is fun to try to get to fly back wards on windy days but can pull itself out of a stall and go straight up like an arrow. I still have a big heavy bipe I used to fly at IMAA events, when it had the OS 1.20 in it the throttle was wide open during most of the flight except for the down lines, it's only big stunt was the stall turn. Throttle control is something my advanced instructor pounded into my head. A lot depends on the plane itself though. Because the Ariel is so heavy and light on power it tends to fly with more throttle needed and also burns up more of that high dollar glow fuel. I try to keep the throttle down when doing turn arounds and try to only open it up when going into any verticals. No reason to be burning up the fuel just cruising around.
Conway, right now it's just too cold for these old bones to be out fly!! I do have the time and I did stock up on fuel during HPs last good sale.
Come back 120 degrees and give me a dry lake bed to fly from, I do have the time!!!

My point is that throttle management is more critical with electrics than it is with glow. If you bench test an electric, push it to full throttle, you can hear the RPM drop as the battery drains. And, that is even if you only consume less than the available current from the pack. Try it sometime.

With glow, go to full throttle and the power curve remains flat, of course, until you run out of fuel.

This makes throttle management with electrics more critical than it does with glow.

CGr.

Concur. Especially with taildraggers, I gradually feed in the throttle. With my Saito 100-powered .60 Hellcat, I'm usually airborne by 3/4 throttle. Sure, the ground roll is a bit longer than just cobbing full throttle to it, but I think the takeoff looks more 'scale' this way, and directional control is easier as well.

I'll keep pushing the throttle up to WOT to get some altitude quickly, then vary the throttle depending upon what type of flying I'm doing.

Yep, The batteries go down fast at WOT with electrics. I only had the one small electric I converted from a 1/2A kit and I was off throttle most the time or just had enough to keep the plane flying. Then I would take it way up and just glide. I do have big batteries though and I have timed a flight at 24 minutes then landed and still had a bunch of watts left over. I have built another little electric but just used the same motor and gear from the first one. Just haven't finished the plane yet. This one has ailerons so should be even more fun.

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the inputsAwesome.

Well Just 30 minutes ago I got back from the flying field. I'm gonna tell y'all my experience which pretty much somehow is very different today. First thing, weather is ideal, sun's shinning full blown, wind is around 5 to 8 Mph, temperature is around mid 50's but as usual nobody was at the flying field prolly people are still celebrating new year and vacations. I gotta go to work from Tuesday, Thank GOD again I got a job and this year would be great for IT jobs especially migration to Windows 7. Anyway, I was gonna share my today's experience.

As I only have Phoenix Model Strega 40 with Magnum .46 XLS 2 Stroke. I made certain changes in it. Prop I changed last week from 11X6 to 11X7 APC, gave me more stable flight than before. I do not balance my prop, as I don't have prop balance and I never had any problems in the past with prop balancing either, anyhow I installed a smoke deflector which is Dubro's and it won't stay on the muffler's exhaust despite I tied it with 3 zip ties, it would come off, so I decided to use hose clamp on it and oh boy it works really well, I felt that somehow plane might have gotten itty bitty nose heavy which ain't a big deal. I changed the glow plug from O.S. #8 to O.S. #6 (A5). O.S. #8 is medium hot and in the manual of Magnum or ASP they recommend hot plug and I read about O.S. #6 is that it's the ideal for up to .61 size 2 stroke engine. Some how today, my high speed needle valve was on 2 1/2 or 2 3/4. As I was there alone, engine would not give me the correct revs as I had been getting from #8 glow plug. I tweaked the needle to 3 turns but still it won't give me the right rev as I desired, this was something really an astonishing condition, as I was so excited with #5 would kick........... but I could not get to set up the right rpm on my motor, again tachometer is also in the pipeline. That's the issue of glow plug, anyway first flight, as the ground is very uneven I got a nose over, and motor stopped natural thing, brought plane back to the starting stand, cranked it up and somehow engine was giving the rpms up to par not as I would have wanted, I did the nose up, rpms did not change, not a single increase, none. I put the plane down on the ground, gradually pushing the throttle stick to WOT, somehow today I did not keep my elevator stick slightly up as it had been my practice to always keep elevator stick little bit downward position so plane does not get a nose over, but again as soon as it gained a good rolling ground speed, my plane had a nose over bummer[:@] gotta change the prop, as soon as I tried to change it, darn it, I did not have the crank shaft stopper, nobody was there at the field, and here I had to pack it up and come back, I forgot to buy me a crank shaft stopper or lock, or I don't know what exactly it's called, so prop nut won't come off as crankshaft is turning along.

Anyway, what I wanted to test the half throttle all the way upon airborne on this plane of mine, I do push this motor to the limits and do the rudder turns or whatever that maneuver is called. Darn whole day is lost, I could not fly it. Next week, I'm gonna do as I had been advised by y'all. Your input makes me learn a lot. I'm here in USA for 3 years, and I had been welcomed by y'all very warmly. Hadn't economy crunch come about, we would all have been in a great shape, but keeping the fingers crossed, Thank GOD I got a job, and I have a long list of stuff to buy over $2,000 MAY GOD BRING THIS YEAR PROSPERITY, HAPPINESS AND GREAT ECONOMY.

CGRetired, In future I might buy me some electric especially EDF, and I already learned a good thing about it thru you.

Thank y'all

I'd keep ya posted.



Mody Khan