<div style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: Arial"><span style="font-size: larger">Iam having trouble making a straight takeoff and am considering several possibilities and I would like some advice. Typically, the plane upon rotation will make a 30 degree turn away from the field staging area. I am considering using slight use of rudder to correct for it. There is the possibility that I am inadvertently causing the problem by either a slight misapplication of rudder during throttle applcation or a slight use of aileron during elevator application. This problem has followed me with 3 different airplanes so I suspect that this could be the case. From past experiences, I am scared of overuse of the rudder and several experienced pilots have stated that they never use rudder on takeoff. I am considering minimizing the amount of rudder control from specification of 20mm down to perhaps 10mm until I get comfortable with its use. Also, is it possible to strengthen the springs in the transmitter gimbals to help prevent inadvertent application of aileron or rudder?I have practiced on a simulator and it seems okay for a slight application of rudder upon takeoff. I suspect the answer here is practice - practice but would like to hear it. </span></span></div>

Rudder is pretty much always used for take off unless you fly off of dry lake beds or huge fields where you can just let the plane go it's own way, usually left. I do have some planes that track better then others and require very little rudder input or none at all. You can bend your LG toe in and it will help ground handling but you still better learn to use the rudder for steering. Some people add more right engine thrust to help but just for ground handling that isn't the way to do it. Learn rudder! Some planes have wider or more separated LG like my old Kaos with wing mounted gear, this plane will track straight once you get it rolling out. Rudder is used until it hits a certain speed then it tracks straight. Rudder use is part of the learning curve and usually needed, not just for take off and landing but also in flight. Rudder is your friend!!!

Never use the rudder on takeoff ??????? You almost have to, to counter the tendency of the prop wash pushing the tail over.(P-factor)
There is another possibility.....You're setting up the tail wheel before you fly.....then you trim rudder and throw the tail wheel off......or the main wheels are crooked a tad and the tail wheel keeps you straight until on takeoff roll the tail lifts and you're back on the mains......But rudder is a must on takeoff

The real truth to doing a take-off is that you should be using all four basic controls. While certain techniques depend on landing gear configuration, most factors are universal.

Rudder - to hold the heading on the runway
Elevator - to control when you leave the runway
Ailerons - to compensate for cross winds on the runway
Throttle - to control acceleration

Until you can do the above, you may have experience, but not be an experienced pilot.

As far as changing spring rates on the gimbals, yes that can be done. But are you flying with your thumbs only or pinching the sticks between the thumb and first finger. For myself, I find it somewhat easier to avoid cross controlling with the pinch method.

I suspect the people that told you not to use rudder during takeoff probably stayed heavy on the rudder after takeoff & large amounts of rudder combined with yanking the plane off the ground with alot of elevator equals a snap roll. If you need a large amount of rudder to keep your plane going straight down the runway, dont yank it into the air! Let the model build up airspeed and gradully apply your elevator. Once airborn you can get off the rudder. Most trainers are not sensative to snapping with Rudder & Elevator, so I am guessing you are not talking about a trainer type? Im not sure if a trainer will even snap roll, (mine wont). Learn to use the rudder....Gene

Welcome to the RCU forums, jwayne!

If you were sitting in the cockpit, that 30 turn would be right or left?
Are this one and the three other planes trikes or draggers?

Rudder control is good; you can never have too much:

http://masportaviator.com/2004/02/27/using-the-rudder/

Ditto to what the other have said, and I will add that while a simulator is an excellent tool, don't expect it to behave the same as the real thing.

You may find that one plane will need more rudder on takeoff than others or vice-versa, but almost all planes will need some.

Thanks to all, I guess it's amazing that as much flying as I have done and all without the use of the rudder that I have gotten away with it for so long. I have got to get with it and start developing my rudder skills. I hope that I can learn it without too many crashes due to over use of the rudder. Oh yes, one of my planes is a trike trainer, another a tail dragger trainer, and the last one is a four square 60 tail dragger. I am just 5 months getting back into the hobby after 40 years. The turn on take-offs may be either to the left or right but always away from the field staging area,  fortunately. My grip on the transmitter is with thumb and first finger per the pinch method. The info on the wheels being a tad different than the rudder is interesting as I have not considered that one but I am sure it is a factor. I am going to go and start my rudder training. I have become very good at repairing airplanes so even if I crash one, I can fix it. Still, it is great what I have done without the rudder but it is fun to have the challenge to learn the rudder. Thanks again to all.... 

If you're getting a right turn on takeoff then something is wrong with your setup. I would suspect the tail wheel first. If the turn happens suddenly as the tail wheel or nose wheel comes up off the ground, then you have a crooked main gear. A slight left yaw is normal if you just gun the throttle with no rudder on trainers and sport planes. Once they get some airspeed, they will track straight if the gear is set up right. The only exception is on a rough runway where the bumps can catch one wheel and turn the plane.

Jwayne, if you are serious about really learning to use your rudder, look into pattern/imac/precision aerobatics. That type of disipline will make useing the rudder second nature, plus you'll meet alot of great people & have fun at the same time.....Gene

Ok.. one more criticism. Rudder during take off and landing is an absolute must. It's just not considering to use it, but needing to use it.

Get down to it and learn the rudder. You will thank us for pranging you about it.

Next.. throttle management.

After that.. trim for straight and level.. hands off.. at half throttle.

Don't worry, we will keep you honest!!!

CGr.

jwayne,

I would like to add something here too. Along with everything that has been mentioned; does your transmitter allow for adding any expo to your control surfaces? If it does; add some expo to your rudder. That will help some with the inadvertant rudder use. With expo; if you move the stick a small amount; the rudder will move a very small amount if any depending on how much expo you program into the transmitter. Might help you.

hahaha you beat me to it. i was hoping to be the one suggesting that one. definitely helped me tremendously while learning.

When I set-up for a takeoff, I always steer/angle the plane across the runway to avoid an inadvertent flight over the field staging area and I believe that is a factor to the right turn. Also, the field is a grass/bumpy field and my two trainers require a long run before gaining sufficient speed for takeoff. However, I will recheck wheel alignment which has been a problem. I just corrected a problem with the trike trainer to beef-up the front wheel assembly. The tail dragger trainer has a weak tail wheel assembly which presently requires straightening after each landing. This I have got to fix. The four star 60 has no such problems. My transmitter does not have expo capability for the rudder. I love those planes that seem to jump off the ground in 20 feet or so and go straight on take-off. The four star 60 does pretty well but I crashed it doing knife-edgeswith too much rudder and wrong use of elevator. However, I have it rebuilt now and its is almost ready to fly again. Yes, I will check the pattern aerobatics screens for information and training. Thanks

Your tail wheel problem would probably be best solved by going to a tail skid instead. They do fine on grass and there's nothing to damage.

You can check your main gear alignment by putting a long straightedge on each wheel. It's easier with a helper so you can step back and see how the wheels are pointing. Both should be slightly in (toe in) to improve stability on the ground, but make sure they are both towed at the same angle. Once your main gear is straight, get your nose wheel straight for tracking and all you'll have to do then is correct for P-factor and bumps on the runway. A common issue with takeoff woes is having a landing gear setup that tracks differently than the fight controls do. As the plane gathers speed, there is a progressive change in how it handles. You'll never make a straight takeoff with those two systems not in sync.

Look for slop in your nose wheel linkage. That can make directional control a real challange. In my experience, tricycle gear aircraft do not do well on a rough field. Taildraggers are better.

One of the ways to get used to rudder is a skidding or flat turn...get up high...then apply rudder and opposite ailerons to keep the airplane in a skid or flat turn...practice practice and practice some more in both directions.....then do hammer head stalls...rudder will start to become second nature

Im going to mention something that most of us would probably say would not be in your best interests to try but it has not been stated here yet. First, I am in TOTAL agreement that you should take the time to learn the very NECESSARY skill of the rudder, especially during take-offs, especially with a tail-dragger. The rudder will save your plane on many occassions, I mean MANY! Now since we are all in a hobby and this is all for fun you could take the plunge I would never do and set up your aircraft with a gyro in the rudder. Its a false security blanket in that it basically takes away the need to control your rudder on take off. It is inexpensive but will NOT make you a better pilot. There are alot of posts on here(RCU) that you can look up and youll get many different opinions on it as well. I would not do it because it doesnt teach you anything. But if you want to have fun go for it!

The gyros have their place in lots of the WW I and golden age planes because even with a good setup and good pilot, they are still hard to handle on the ground. Yes, as capo915 said, this is a hobby and we can all do it however we want. But any successful sport design had ground handling as a consideration in the design phase, and all of them will roll straight on a decent runway if they are set up right.

jwayne,

Do you use the same transmitter for all of your planes? Which transmitter do you have?

I discovered nose gear slop with the trike trainer as the .025 push rod was too small to be sufficiently held captive by the servo EZ connector. I changed the push rod to .073 and it now is solid with no more slop. Hammer head stalls are no problem but the skid with rudder and opposite aileron I have not tried yet. I will try that on my GP basic simulator first. A gyro in the rudder, Wow! that is something new and maybe something to consider in the future. The transmitters used are both Futaba 72mhz with a model 6A used on the tail dragger trainer Skyraider and a 6H used on the trike trainer Skyraider and the 4 star 60 low wing. Funny thing happened today as I took the tail dragger trainer flying. Before flying it, I went over all I wanted to do differently as use the rudder to straighten the take-off...etc but then the plane took off straight with no correcting rudder applied and then I went to land it in a 90 degree cross wind and planed the used of the rudder again but it came in straight without any rudder application.....Oh well! even the little weak tail wheel worked perfectly. However, I am going to develop the rudder skills. Thanks!

You say your trike configured trainer takes a bit of time to build up enough
speed to lift off the ground, one thing and I didn't see it mentioned above is that
your wing incidence in relation to the ground may be a bit on the negitive side
meaning the leading edge is attacking the air in a downward positon in relation to
the ground. Simple check is to put the plane on a table and measure the distance
up to the trailing and leading edges of the wing, if the leading edge distance is less
than the trailing edge that is where the problem exisits. You can correct this in one of
2 different ways, lower the nose gear leg or put a larger wheel in place so that the distance
between the two are equal or the leading edge is up to maybe 1/8" higher than trailing edge.
Also firewalling the throttle on take off is usually the cause for most aircraft to want to
drift to the left from torque, gradual throttling up with a very slight "pinch" of rudder is
the way to keep it straight.

Bill D.

Jwayne-
As most have said, PLEASE learn to use that rudder if for nothing else takeoff and landing alignment corrections. Keep in mind that years ago, all we HAD was rudder! I don't propose returning to that but if you have a chance, get up high and practise just doing the standard oval pattern using just rudder (and of course a little elevator).

Your ultimate goal is to be able to coordinate the use of the rudder and ailerons together just like on a full-scale aircraft. That takes a little time but believe me once you master it your plane will fly better and you'll be much more confident. Rudder use can also save your plane if your ailerons ever go out for any reason.

When you get into higher performance planes, quick rudder instincts will save you from some tip stalls and wind issues too.

Concerning wing incidence on the trike trainer, yes I have been fighting that one already by adding a 3" wheel on the front and 2.5" on the main gear. Also, I spreaded the main gear out to lower the tail. A month ago, a man showed up at the field with the same airplane and I put mine along side his and noticed that his tail was considerably lower than mine. So, I measured his and got my tail down to where his was. I think that his was approximately 4" off the ground. This resulted in my leading edge distinctly higher than the trailing edge. The man with the identical plane was more inexperienced than me and he badly crashed his plane during a takeoff and gave what was left of it to me for free. I rebuilt it into the tail dragger trainer that I now have and like it much more than the trike trainer. Then later, I bought the engine that he had used on the crashed plane and put it back on the rebuilt version. Now, it is a much better engine than I had planned for it.   Concerning use of the rudder, I crashed the tail dragger trainer shortly after rebuild due to a cross wind on landing. I  lined up the approach on aileron only and wound up coming down the runaway too close to where I was standing so at the second before touch down, I applied left aileron to move its path more to the middle of the runway. When I did, the wind caught the right wing and rolled the plane into the ground. Three days later, I had it repaired and ready to go again but I believe that was a time if I had used left rudder instead of aileron it would not have crashed. It's a great hobby because there is so much to learn......