1) Did everyone survive?<div>2) Can you use the airplane again?</div><div>
</div><div>If "Yes" to both, then it was a great landing, and nobody really cares how you managed it.  </div>

First off, relax Tennessee. 99% of RC fliers are pretty poor at landings, otherwise they would not worry about which prop is the toughest. Watch them closely and observe that they never land on the same spot of the runway, seldom on the center line, and usually not even headed down the length of the runway. They don't make landings, they have "arrivals".

Landing is all about energy management and corrections for existing conditions. Knowing ahead what corrections are needed comes from experience and practice, and both take time.

But at your particular point of progress, I would not worry too much about the landing. Rather, I would urge you to concentrate on "slow flight". How does that apply? Well no one ever masters landings until they master slow flight, and slow flight is learning to control the airplane when it is almost to the point where it no longer wants to fly.

WOW, Tennessee, you surely have received a lot of information, however, IMO, the silver and gold portion is very lightweight.

Landing any airplane is work. No two are just alike. Each landing you ever make whether an RC model airplane or a 1:1 scale will be a test of your abilities. Even in 1:1 scale that is true. An airline pilot may grease 'em on one after another, but every so often, there will be one that he does not care to claim. Somewhere back in the list of posts there is the one that the poster claims that the B-747 is not subject to the power=altitude and pitch=airspeed. Very funny because while the poster says that no one ever sees the 747 nose going up and down on final approach. HA HA, Nope, if from outside the cockpit you see any aircraft going nose up then nose down, then there is more trouble than flying a final approach. Yep, that is funny funny funny.
Now let's talk flying the RC model from a downwind track parallel to the runway and then on to touchdown. While there are many different situations happening in any approach phase, the basics will get you down. There are some basic rules but they vary in time and effort during their applications.

Rule 1: An airplane control system needs positive applications of smooooth PRESSURE. An airplane is not a computer game. Treat an airplane like a girl-friend, not a wife. Don't bang the control pole, just easily pressure it, yet sometimes a firm pressure and MANY readjustment/S is/are required.

Rule #2 Plan ahead. Have a flight track, over the ground and in the air established in your mind. You can't get where you wish to be if you don't know the way.

For beginners, estimate about 300 feet out from the far side of your runway centerline. That will suffice. Since you wish to track that line, you have to consider the crosswind component. For example you have a 10 mph wind at 45* to the runway from behind you as you look across the field towards the downwind leg. That means about 7 mph effective crosswind component, which is also 7 mph tailwind component (TWC) on downwind. Given a 25 mph True airspeed with 7mph TWC you're doing about 47 ft. per second and an extended downwind leg of about 470 ft. Do not tarry.
For training let's say you were going right to left downwind, and that 7 mph twc is effecting your ground track the entire time you're making the turn around some 2-4 seconds, you will be some additional 25-30 additional feet away from you. So in general, you're about 500 ft away which would be a final approach 200 ft out from end of a 600 ft runway if you are standing in the mid point. About average.

Now if your final speed is 20 mph TAS less 7 mph head wind component you have 13 mph inbound ground speed. That is slight of 200 Ft. per second until the model is abeam you. Holding the speed you have less than 3 seconds to make a number of decisions. As it was said years ago, a big business man may make an important decision a couple times a day. An airline pilot makes a 100 lifesaving decisions in a couple seconds.
On final approach, this is where the altitude is controlled by throttle and speed by pitch. If the machine appears to be dropping below your chosen descent path, then give a burst of throttle and pull it right back. You will gain altitude. Going high, throttle back and quickly back to what you think it should be. If you wait to see and analyze results you're way behind the machine.

Back to basics and all that math above could be very wrong, as I am just thinking it but not very swiftly or accurately. It's been 15 years since I had to make those decisions. HA!
Rule #3: As you slow down a bit on final approach the same headwind may lessen due to ground effect, increasing your ground speed. More likely as you correct your descent path and for sure as you do slow your descent, your drift angle will then increase, making your heading appear off course. To counter this you will need to lower the upwind wing into the wind and use applied rudder to keep the aircraft tracking down the centerline of the runway. Now you will be holding a pressure and don't release it when you start to flare.

If you fail to be drift free at touchdown the wheels effectively touch while in a crab thus being in a skid and will make a greaser look a whole lot different. [8D]

As you reduce any power setting during the flare, the increase in pitch lowers airspeed reducing wing lift, remember that lift is a function of the SQUARE of the airspeed and then the biggie rule of the prop driven aircraft is that as power is reduced there is also a drastic reduction of airflow across the horizontal stabilizer, thus reducing the ability of the stab-elevator to hold the wing in a positive angle-of-attack. This is where the proficient pilot learns the use of control pressure and holding attitudes.

It's something a pilot needs to be aware of and the use of control pressure is very important. So many times I have watched great air-work RCers flare then allow the pitch attitude drop and destroy a good approach.

A good approach can be the start of a good landing. OTH some of the worst landings I ever made, 1:1 scale were on those times I was cleared to land way out, long straight-in approach, almost no wind or very slight on the nose and beautiful weather. YUCK!!!

On the other hand every landing from the River Approach at Washington National was always good. Your RC landings will be good if you remember the basics and DO NOT QUIT FLYING UNTIL IT STOPS ON THE ROLL OUT!

Horrace Cain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJfS1v-fU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdF2S...eature=channel

For me, I don't put as much in the science of landing as many do here. I practice approaches which has been the key for me and also spent time learning the characteristics of my various planes thoroughly. Some I still have not learned all the flight characteristics, but these two things has been the primary factors for my learning and if one thing stands out above all it is approach, approach, approach.

I spent some time observing the folks that struggle with landing and crashed the most and the single most consistant factor was simply the approaches. Out of that I found that angle and speed were the killers. The majority of the time they were not lined up with the runway and that caused them to have to work to correct and have to over use the throttle too much.

I have actually practiced bad approaches with one of my beater planes to see just how that affects me and I was amazed and how much more work I had to do to land the aircraft. Although, now after a couple of years I can drop some of my planes down almost completely crossways of the runway or bring them in on a bad approach and still get down to a smooth landing. That comes with practice and knowing your aircraft's flight characteristics. I do still have a long ways to go, but I am very glad of this improvement in my flying skills.

Happy flying and landings!

Lots of great info and posts in this thread.

However, I wonder if tennessee (the OP) ever read it or appreciate it.[&o]

Hopefully, other beginners will benefit from the experienced info posted here.

Just keep repeating the mantra I teach my students on approach - Wings Level, Nose up, plane sinking. By learning how to hold the wings level, adding elevator to slow the plane down, and then using throttle if necessary to stretch the approach out a little more, you'll learn to grease the landings, everytime. The earlier in your approach you establish the landing attitude (wings level, nose up, plane sinking), the easier it will be. After you've learned that, other techniques are much easier to learn (side slipping, crabbing). The less you think about, the easier it becomes.

Brad

Simple step instructions are always the best methods to follow because a student can easily be overwhelmed with too much on their mind, as opposed to seasoned pilots referring to the steps as second nature.

One day an older guy walked up to me and said "On your last turn, cut the throttle, in the turn the plane will slow down to landing speed. Line up to the runway, wings level, plane sinking, and the ideal landing is to gradually give it more up elevator while maintaining your rate of descent, until you have full up elevator right at touch down."

There's lots of good info in this thread. What I want to add is just my impression of the two things that people who have trouble landing seem to get wrong much of the time:

1. Turning onto final approach much too early and so approaching the runway at an angle, rather than head on. (On my club field we have to do it this way when landing from the west, to avoid an obstruction, but if you don't have to do it, don't). This doesn't necessarily keep you from making a good landing in the end. But it makes you have to think a lot about your ground track when you'd be better off thinking about attitude, speed, and height.

2. Pushing the nose down to lose altitude on final. It never works, because you build up speed and so zoom up when you level off. I've even seen guys who are full-scale pilots and so ought to know better do this with a model.

One of the things I like to point out is: Have you ever flown in a commercial plane? Have you ever been on a commercial airliner that over-shot the landing and had to go around? Did you ever notice how as they are on final, they almost always - at some point - increase the throttle?

This is because they are on a low approach. To keep from landing too soon, they boost the power to make it to the field.

In a sailplane, you do the opposite - keep more altitude than you need and use spoilers to spoil the lift and sink, or decrease altitude without gaining speed as you would by dropping the nose.

Since most of our planes don't have spoilers, you should keep your approach lower than you need and use your throttle to make it to the field.

That don't work in the Corporate world... if your landings are not silky smooth each time.. you ain't got a job...

Well, Rob, don't lose sight of reality here. We are flying models. And, one of the benefits of flying models is that if it does happen to be a hard landing, the only one to complain is the guy with the box in his hand.

CGr

Sorry, I have to disagree... Ifly commercial.. we fly a 3 degree approach.. every time.. on autoland or manual, its alwayssmack bang on 3 degrees.. power is usually applied on final when the last stage of flap is selected.. the power is needed to maintain speed when theextra flap increase****g..

I agree with your comment on Sailplanes..

Very true.. just keeping it light hearted... no offense intended..
...

I understand.. I was trying to keep it lighthearted too.

We've all been on commercial flights where the landing was a tad bit less than pleasant. I was on an Air Force C-130 when they did a combat landing. Now that was fun.. [X(]

All great points about landing and techniques, though. We try to relay the info out to every one that is interested in reading this stuff and hope that it benefits someone out there. We all get our info and our experiences, most likely, by combining some of what people recommend, then come up with our own technique that works, which is usually mostly the same thing.... only different

CGr.

Again very wise words..

You can take 100% of the information from ONE Person

or 1% of the information from 100 People..

The Latter will probably benefit you more....

Sorry double posted...

Exactly my point. You come in shallow. And, not to contradict you, but as an airplane nut I can't help but pay attention to what's happening when I'm on board and in that last mile or two, the gear are down and the flaps are fully deployed and many's the time when a little power has been added to maintain the approach.

In any case, I'm not trying to disagree with someone who does it for a living, I'm just saying that you want a shallow approach. Three degrees is very shallow. Just take a look at a 3, 6 and 9 degree approach. I would venture to say that more modelers fly closer to a 9 degree approach than a 3 degree approach.

Kind of supports my contention:

Slow flight will get you to the 3% glide slope.

Yes commercial aviation tends to use the 3 deg approach method but you don't make wide turns when driving your car even though commercial (truckers) drivers do. Unless you trust your engine 100% dragging in a model airplane on a 3deg approach is a sure way to end up short of the runway with a dead stick. A model jet will fly a 3deg approach without a problem, however a trainer or scale bipe will require a lot of throttle at slow speed to maintain a 3 deg slope. Even small single engine F/S aircraft will fly a steeper approach when flown by the numbers. Find a good comfortable slow speed at which you can still easley control the plane, reduce throttle to give you a nice descent, without allowing the engine to load up, and fly that approach with that rate of descent. As long as you are not diving at the runway and can easily level off and flair don't worry about the angle.

Good advice. I've said this before, but here it comes again, but perhaps in different words.

The pilot needs to work at developing his/her own approach that he/she is comfortable with. If the instructor is worth his/her salt, well, that instruction will include proper approaches with sufficient practice to develop that procedure and in-grain it in memory. Just like full-scale, it does not come quickly and takes quite a bit of practice.. doing it over and over again.

Hey, my College Calculus Professor said that to me on several occasaions.. it has to be done over an over again. [X(] Nothing different here, is there .

The best landings are the ones that gets the plane on the ground in one piece. We all know how that is done.. of course, it's done my way, right? Right? Ok, maybe not exactly my way, but, I hope I make the point.

CGr.

For me, the best way to land is to fly multiple approaches, getting a little lower each time. This way, you can adjust your alignment and get used to whatever the wind is like at the time. Whenever you get close enough to the ground, and you feel like you're set up well, go for it and let the plane settle down. Landing really varies a lot for many people depending on the plane, and the field. Another good way to practice is to get on the simulator, or take the plane up and let the engine die. You'll quickly learn the capabilities of your model after a few ditches in the weeds!

Best of luck, and don't give up!

Jake

Since the discussion is taking a tangent off the Op's question, I will again insert some 1:1 scale information. The 3 degree glideslope is strictly there for politics and making things easy for some that shouldn't be there. I don't know about Australia but here in the good ol' US of A, the FAA requires that the pilot in command will not fly below the established glideslope for any runway having one, be it ILS (Instrument Landing System Glide Slope) or VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator). Having to retire at age 60, 15 years ago, the then mandatory retirement age - now 65 - I am not up-to-date on what they have now.

When Reagan fired all the Air Traffic Controllers, and all the new ones had to be schooled quickly, OJT, things kind of went astray. The ATC quickly brought the long straight-in approaches as their training school, and I don't suppose it has changed. The use of 100% instrument procedure approaches is the worst, ABSOLUTELY WORST, FUEL AND TIME WASTING METHOD OF LANDING CONTROL THAT BUREAUCRATS HAVE EVER ESTABLISHED. Now I can go deep with that statement but it would not be here long. When cleared for a visual approach, I flew more than the established # of °slope, used minimum flap and gear until down to 1000 ft AGL. Yes, when all that drag is added, power has to also be added. The slower you fly the more thrust required. IF YOU FLY COMMERCIAL and you can't do it without established GS, then take a look in the mirror and ask yourself, "Am I a PILOT or just an "airplane driver?"

Any RC pilot should, after soloing with some practice, be able to come in at full power, over the end of the runway, enter into a loop, cut throttle to idle starting about at the top, and land within the first 50 ft. of end of the runway.

CG Retired: "We've all been on commercial flights where the landing was a tad bit less than pleasant. I was on an Air Force C-130 when they did a combat landing. Now that was fun.."

My son, now retired from USAF, designed and got approved a new tactical procedure for MC-130s in-trail Assault Landings. I got to do some of that stuff in a couple years flying the C-123, but nothing like his MC-130 stuff. He also flew the C-5 in his last 4-5 years and their assault landing for Baghdad started at close to a Split-S (NO never really inverted, just steep bank) starting at 15,000 ft. AGL. Don't remember the details but sounded scary. He liked it better at night because then he could see the tracers coming his way.

So for you RC Beginners, learn to fly the model to the ground and runway center. Keep at it and you will get it. One more funny: I was teaching an ex-Navy, now airline pilot, RC. He just kept allowing the nose to drop. SMASH! I ask him if he did that with the airline? I said, "You are not on a carrier now, land like you do with the airliner, hold it off as the power comes back and increase the back pressure to keep the nose moving UP not down. Two landings later he had it down pat and never ever had another problem. YOU can do same, just keep FLYING the machine.

Good post.. I guess if you had said... commercial aircraft come in "Shallow.. compared to most RC aircraft approaches" I would and do agree entirely...

I misunderstood your post to say the commercial aircraft come in shallow on their 3 degree approachesand that is why they need to add power at the last minute..

The average aircraft won't glide at 3 degrees so some power is definately necessary...

Cool post...

Yes, Australia is the same.. our SOPS state that if you go 1 dot below glideslope you go around..

4 reds on a PAPI - Go around

If the approach is not stabilised at 1000 Ft.. go around..

And yes we often practice "seat of the pants" approaches.. no landing aids or visual slope indicators...

Your last sentence is so true !! The bottom line is we all learn things at different paces, in different ways.