Agreed, but at first, where exactly to initiate that 90 degree turn can be an issue. At least it was for me.

Yeah, I have to agree. I was taught the "downwind - base - final" method of making approaches and landings.

There are all sorts of tips folks give and use to get landings in. The two basic ones that I use and as taught to me are.. one I already mentioned about pointing the aircraft right at you after the turn to final. The other one was that if you can see the bottom of the aircraft, you are not coming in steep enough, ie. you should not see the bottom of the wing in landing. However, don't take that to the extreme... if all you can see is the top of the wing, well, you are defiintely TO steep.. [:@] Then again, you will only see the top of the wing for a few seconds.

CGr

Grey Beard hit on a term I would like to expand on a bit: Decending Turn

Newbies are taught to maintain altitude when turning, but the next time you fly, try this:

At a normal altitude, make your turn from the downwind leg with more aileron and less elevator so the plane loses altitude as it turns. Note that you are not going to land, you are just "flying the box" like you normally do, but rather than holding a constant altitude, you are decending on your turns toward the runway, and then regaining altitude throughout the rest of the pattern.

In the video below, the first turn from the left is a decending turn to set up for a low pass over the runway. Then you will see the plane climb out afterward. The second turn from the left maintains its altitude to set up for a maneuver.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzPYwW7oEOI[/youtube]

Ok all yee experts! l like MinnFlyer's suggesttion to turn with out elevator input. Not only will the plane descend, but will loose air speed as well. Which is another thing that should be mentioned for final approach, you may need to bleed of some air speed. I use a little back and forth rudder input to do this. What are suggestions for other ways to bleed of air speed? Also flairing, what is the proper way to flair (what is the pilot acutally doing with the sticks when flairing). I've heard instructors tell flyers to go ahead and flair, then later the student will ask them , "what did you mean " "flair"?

Losing airspeed by reducing the angle of attack??

Neat trick.

So neat, it'd revolutionize landings entirely.

And physics too!


<br type="_moz" />

You can't really say HOW to flair, because all planes will respond differently when you do it, but the gist of it is: You're flying straight toward the runway at a slightly nose-down attitude and just above stall speed. If you maintain this attitude you will plant your nosewheel into the gound - you will land, but it won't be pretty.

So just before touching down, you "Flair" the plane by adding a tad of up elevator to level out the angle of attack. In an ideal situation, you are going slow enough that you can even lower the tail a bit without gaining altitude. As the plane aproaches its stall speed, it will start to desend before it completely stalls, but since you are only inches from the ground, it lands before a complete stall occurs.

I tell new pilots not to plan on landings. Just fly the plane over the runway. Ninety degree turns or arc it in (arc is easier than two 90s). Just get used to flying over the runway without the pressure of having to land. In time you will bring the plane closer and closer to the ground. The main problem I see with new pilots is they start the approach too far away (you can finish your final turn over the runway at most fields). I also tell new pilots to fly the model past you and land with the model going away from you. Dont worry about the rudder at first and dont over think the flare up. It will come just keep a positive attitude.

Let the plane fly. Use throttle as needed. The approach is not etched in stone. It is a constant adjustment of control inputs. Don't forget what the rudder is there for. It steers the plane like a boat. Ailerons are not to turn a plane. Co-ordinated ailerons with the rudder makes a proper turn. Also airspeed is very important. Don't forget, if you pull back you go up. Pull back some more you go down.

My best advice to you on landings is: Avoid the tunnel vision at all cost. All newbies mantain his eyes on the plane during all the flight, when they want to land suddenly encounters the runway on out of course approaches. As was said earlier in this thread "the key for a good landing is a good approach." You need to develop the ability to see the surounding areas while your trainer is still in the air. You can practice this exercise in order to achieve this ability with safe: When your trainer is passing in front of you at a secure altitude give a glimpse to the runway head. Your brain will "take a flash picture" of your relative position with respect to your plane and the runway. Doing this when your trainer is in the last passing in front of you before the landing maneuver will help you a lot to improve your skills on landings.

Javier

While you're a student listen to your instructor only......this is a great forum...with a bunch of very knowledge people......
But.....no two landings are the same....everyone lands a little differently......plus a trainer for instance doesn't land like a bipe.....
relax we were all where you are....your mind quests for data...more input more input....relax your instructor will get you there....ask him this question......and practice.
Good Luck

take your time and learn how to turn with the airplane coming at you...my first landing 2 seasons ago I didnt know why I was intimidated by it...I dont know about everyone else but landing is easier to me than a good take off but that might just be me..

That's my routine as well. One of my favorite parts of the whole RC flying thing is landing. Loops, rolls and all are fun, but they're relatively easy...yank a bunch of elevator and the plane loops...not much challenge there unless you are competing in pattern flying. Landings though; Nothing quite as satisfying as repeated, picture perfect touch downs and goosing it for another trip around to do it again. Then for a bit of spice, start doing point landings and landings from varied intentionally bad set-ups; practicing for a dreaded(not so much anymore) deadstick. No better way to really get to know how well you've got that bird managed and really know how to put it where you want(or need) it. Every plane is an individual and has it's own characteristics, so each one is a whole different experience.

Patience and practice...you'll have 'em down in no time.

WOW, excellent idea, never heard of this technique before

Easy with the hasty generalization. Attached are several airfoils that indeed have a drag increase as alpha approaches 0. So physics wouldn't really be surprised in the least. But I digress...

Mike, I was wondering who the pilot was until I saw your dad, he still has it!!! Flare, perhaps the toughest thing to teach. Only good way I have found is to explain it to my student then show him several times, then have him do a higher approach and do make believe landings a mistake or two high. After that I have him start to come in lower until he gets the idea and I have him start doing his own landings. The younger the student the faster they get the idea. I have seen older guys that have never figured it out. Youth, good eyes, good reflexes and it isn't there plane!!!

I really got a full understanding of "the flare" when I moved to a Tiger 60. The visibility of that great aircaraft was great. So, when I pulled in the little bit of elevator at the right point, I saw the nose some up slightly and the plane settle in for a perfect landing.

Once that happened, well, that was all it took.

The other great learning tool for me was flying in the Coast Guard helicopter. The maneuver for autorotation is a flare maneuver, with the HH52, was at about 50 feet altitude where the nose came up and the energy in the rotary wings was transferred into slowing down the airframe for a soft, somewhat vertical landing. Neat stuff.

CGr.

That you point out that you're flying around ok but landings are giving such a fit that everything you seem to do seems wrong, so my question would be, are you sure the plane is in low power trim? I wished I could trust the fact that your working with an instructor to assume that it is... but unfortunately I've seen too many instances where the instructor didn't properly trim the plane for low power.

There is a huge temptation to trim a plane for half to full power and in some instances, that doesn't make for an easy plane to land. If the plane is not in trim for low power and a proper glide path, landings are far harder than otherwise. Even a skilled pilot can have problems.

Those of us who were mentored by either ex free flight guys or single channel RC guys, know that the first rule of trim is to trim for low power and a proper glide slope. Power on trim is solved from there but not at the cost of messing up low power trim.

If low power is trimmed up, the plane will float, get slow and wander off course. If it is trimmed down it will dive for the ground. Either will place unwanted mental demands on the pilot making landings much harder than they need to be.

I would doubt that your instructor would be offended if you asked him to verify that the low power trim is correct and producing a proper glide slope.

Bill,Semper Fi Mack..Tom

Tom!! Ooorah!! Running the Marine Corps marathon this year. Running with a group called the SemperFi fund, we raise money to assist wounded Marines and their families. Good cause. Marathon is in October, plenty of time to train and raise money

my planes have an automatic landing systm built in,,,they run out of gas,,,they land.

tennessee_,

Whatever your problem with learning landings is, this advice will slow things for you enough to feel comfortable doing your control inputs.

Yes, planes can be flown slowly, specially trainers during landings.

Learn to use rudder while flying high, since mastering it makes a big difference for good landings.

I also recommend reading the articles about landing techniques of the links of post #23 above.

My favorite training night last summer was when we all agreed to shoot touch and goes for a full tank of fuel and the last one done flying had to buy the ice cream.  On the flight line we had 4 Easy Sports (2 w/ os46, 1 w/ os 55, one with tt46) 1 ultra sport 40 w/ an os 46, 1 Venus 40 with Saito 72, and one 25% Sukoi with OS 55 (gasser).  The guy with the Sukoi took off  first, and we all followed.  Once we were in the air you had to fly a tight pattern, every upwind leg had to include a touch and go.   Almost like an aerial nascar race at bristol.  We got into a nice rhythm for about 5 minutes, then the Sukoi stayed on the ground, the rest of us went until our timers where beeping 3-4 minutes later.  2 of them deadsticked to a landing.  I finished in the middle of the pack.  I taxi'd to the far end of the runway and shut down the throttle until all the planes had landed.  Looked like a flight deck at the end of our runway!

We always practiced landings with a circle turn.  Always turning, always descending, throttle at 1/3 or 1/4.  Reduce to high idle when you're lined up, and cut it 2 feet off the ground.  Fly the plane to the ground.  On landing, the ELEVATOR is NOT your friend!  Wings stay level and adjust heading with rudder if you need too.

Watch the guys that grease the landings.  then ask to stand with them at the flight line during their next flight.  Watch their approach and landing.  Watch their sticks as well.

I'm assuming you can get to final without much trouble, but the problems start there? They're right about letting it settle- don't dive to the runway. I pretty much never use down elevator on final unless I'm doing a slip, which you don't need to worry about yet. If you find yourself using a lot of down elevator, then you're way above glidepath and should be thinking about going around. Avoid this by planning a long final for speed stabilization. With a high wing trainer, you shouldn't be using a whole lot of aileron on final either; you're just keeping the wings level from crosswinds. As you get more proficient, start using rudder to keep the fuselage parallel to the runway, but for now don't worry about that, just get a landing in. Hopefully you're not learning to land on windy days, as this further complicates matters at your stage now. The base to final turn can scrub a lot of speed, so be prepared to give a crack of throttle on final, especially if you have some headwind to keep the airspeed up. Have you been using a sim?

Good advice when learning and it works fine in RC aircrraft and light aircraft.. (I actually used to teach that when instructing on light aircraft)

But its not much use in heavy metal though..

You never see a 747's nose moving up and down on final to adjust airspeed..

In that case it is.. Elevator equals Aiming point

Power controls airspeed

Thats how you fly any aircraft with a Velocity vector... Aim the VV at the Threshold and hold it there... use power to correct speed.

For the RC models.. I tend to use the same. with a flare at the end...

To answer the original question...

When the aircraft is coming towards you on final.. push your stick towards the LOW wing to level the wings... (that saved me many times when learning RC)

Don't think about landing.. just think about keeping your wings level.. aim to reduce your descent slightly above the ground to fly level with the ground.. reduce power and hold your level flying attitude... drag and reducing airspeed will let the aircraft settle the last few feet.. don't try to over flare or you will balloon and don't EVER dive towards the ground during the final part...

If you balloon, then either go around or just relax elevator very slightly and let it settle again..

Hope that helps..

here are a bunch of landings in with my eurofighter the first week I built it..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPmONFtyY9Y[/youtube]

SIMULATOR... do hundreds of landings on the simulator. There are guys (like me) that are able to takeoff and land from the first day because of the simulator. The cost is minimal compared to a couple of crashes.

I think guys that land looking over their shoulder are dangerous. Learn how to do it right. You have to fly using all the various orientations. If you start with a crutch, you will always limp.