I am working with and older gentleman and the problem I'm having is that he continues to climb until almost a stall. I know that he is pulling back on the right stick with his thumb. I have tried to get him to use the pinch method. No luck, says his fingers cramp. I don't think he can see the plane climbing. I keep telling him that the plane is climbing and he needs to relax the elevator. He does that and then he starts climbing again. Any suggestions as to how to instruct this person. We have had about 6 flights on the buddy box. I know the plane is trimmed out on the buddy box because I had another pilot use the master and I went on the slave. I would take my hands off of the sticks and the plane was straight and level.

Let the plane stall out. It sounds like your correcting him before it stalls. Let him see the result of this actions. Maybe that will bring it home to him.

Since he doesn't pinch the sticks, while you are holding the buddy-box switch, reach over with your right hand and put your thumb and forefinger underneath his thumb and let him feel how he's supposed to move the elevator lever. You may even discover a new way to teach.

fliers1

I think Mike is right.
As long as you are confident that you can recover from the stall, or other mistake, let it happen.
Give him some time to try to recover before you take over.
Then talk about what happened and how to prevent it from happening.

Gene, how bad are his eyes?? Do you really think he can't see he is in a climb?? If it's a vision thng he may not be someone learning to fly. How is he once in the air? Can he do a figure 8 and see the plane? Everyone seems to do a steep climb out when starting. I took two students over to our local airport and had them watching private planes taking off and landing for a while so they got the idea you don't take off an RC plane any differently, that sunk in pretty quick. I learned myself one day when I yanked up my Cub and the engine flamed out on me. Super stall!! Minor repairs to the LG block. It only took once for it to happen and the lesson sunk in.

Very true about the questionable vision.

Does the person have access to a simulator?

I would teach him to fly with rudder and throttle alone first; after all, that is the proper way to fly basic flights.

He does not need to learn rolls and loops at this stage; hence, the right stick can be left alone until he becomes familiar with proper plane attitude and speed for level flight.

His habit will not be so bad for flaring at landing later on.

Just don't give up on him and introduce him to simulators.

What kind of radio are you using? The reason I ask is because on mu Futaba 8FG I Can assign what controls are transfered on the buddy box. So I can give only rudder and aileron tothe studentfor instance and keep elevator control. Worth looking into.

Good luck

Have yo looked at the way he holds the Tx? Maybe you can move his hand up so his thumb does not pull on the stick? Sort of like choking up on the bat?

It may be that he is having trouble doing so many things at one time. He may be at the max his brain can do. The more he flies the better it gets, but his nerves may be getting to him. He might not even know he is doing it until you tell him.

I have had a few issues teaching people how to fly. I would say it is flying away and they argue that it is getting closer. After 5 minutes and it is a tiny, tiny dot, they say it is going "AWAY". They are so fixated on keeping it in the air they loose track of one or the other. He may be just fixated on keeping it going in a straight line and he looses the ability to see it climb.

If all else fails, let him stall or give it lots of down trim when he fly's.


Buzz.

He does have a simulator G-3.5. I'v worked with him on planes and his eyesight seems OK. We are flying a LT-40 which is our club trainer. Old 4 channel futaba tx. Will try the rudder approach with him. I told him next time out we are just going to fly over the field from one end to the other and see if we can maintain the same altitude. His turns are very steep and we are working on that. Thanks for the input, we won't give up on him. Every one has their project, he is mine.

As a plane fly's away from you it appears to descend due to the change in our viewing angle. Trim it out for straight and level and have him fly long passes without using elevator. This will teach him what level looks like as the plane approaches and fly's away. Also teaching him how to trim for cruise may help make him more comfortable with letting the trainer airplane do what it does best, fly straight and level.

Gene,
Follow this advice with one added piece. After he has made his turn and the plane is flying straight and level have him lift his thumb off of the elevator stick. If you need to enlist a another person to verify he's not touching the elevator stick. Now let him fly across the flying pattern until it's time to turn again, then he can put his thumb back on the stick. By doing this it won't take too long for him to both learn what level fligth looks like, but also learn that he doesn't have to have constant input on the stick to keep the plane flying. My bet is that within one or two flights you'll work out his tendancy to climb the plane like he's doing now.

Ken

Well......I've found a couple of things will make a difference.......
Vision of course very well be a problem....However I offer something I've found through teaching.....
Ever shoot for score?....Not counting natural point of aim and brass and such....your trigger finger never goes to the first knuckle.....instead you put the trigger on the meat of the end of your finger......or when you squeeze the trigger you'll pull your shot to the right...a 1/16th of an inch over 2 or 300 meters is several inches
With that said where is his thumb? Is the stick back on his thumb near the knuckle? You know back on the pad of his thumb so to speak.....if so when he relaxes his hands, his thumb will pull the stick back...causing the airplane to climb.....
Get the stick nearer the end of his thumb...and get his thumb knuckle higher...so when he relaxes it's not so natural to put back pressure on the stick....
Where is the airplane trimmed at? I mean what throttle setting, if like me you trim at half throttle....If he flies at more than 1/2 throttle it could cause a climb...so with the thumb and the trim/throttle it could cause the climb.....
Good Luck

Glad to learn all those positive things.

The bonus of staying away from the right stick during the first training sessions is that he will learn to use rudder and throttle, which are as important as overlooked controls.

Once the trim speed is reached, there is no force making the plane climb.
Coordinated turns will be a natural thing once he progresses to learn ailerons.

That is the way I learned, and I am grateful to my instructor for that.

The thing I like to explain to people who are learning to fly is, I tell them that the trainer planes we fly today fly well without much of a need for our imput. Many years ago when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I had the problem with being rough with the controls with the full scale planes. My instuctor just reminded me to treat her like a lady and make the imputs light and smooth and watch what the airplane does and react accordingly. He said that often and it stuck in my head like the " Wings Level, Nose level to horizon!" bit.

I would invite the begginer over to your house and have him get some simulator time in. Then I think he would fair better when you take him out for the real training.

Just my idea that worked for me, I figured I'd give it a shot in telling you incase you wanted to try it.




Pete

Ah!!! some good suggestions and I really appreciate it. He is such a nice guy and I know he get nervous when he is flying. The plane is trimmed at 1/2 throttle. When I turn the controls over to him if I hear the throttle change I have him either increase or decrease the throttle setting. I will keep everyone posted on his progress.

use of a tazer and/or a big stick perhaps??

As alluded to before, it's likely just the fear of crashing. New pilots think altitude = safety, and they can never have enough safety to be happy. I would definitely show him that the plane will fly hands off. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is stick tension. If the sticks on the box are easy, he may not have enough sensitivity in his hands to feel that he's pushing them.

While he is on the controls and climbing. Ask him what the airplane is doing. Wait and listen for his answer. If he acknowledges the climb tell him to lower the nose. If he can lower the nose and know the airplane is in a climb it is simply a sensitivity thing.

If the airplane is in a climb and he says it is in level flight then you have a bit of a problem. We have a gentleman here at our field who has been in training for over a year and he has periphial problems.

I fear this may be the problem your guy has as well.

If he understands what the airplane is doing, do not be afraid to reach under his thumb and push a little. Explain to him what you are doing and see if he can get a feel. He may have a fear of the airplane nose diving while in flight. If this is the case when it is trimmed for straight and level. Have him remove his right hand from the stick for a moment and let him see you do the same. THis will let him know the plane can fly "hands off". Might be all he needs.

Wish you the best. Keep us informed of his progress.

Glenn

Gene:

The hands-off thing is something that I had to have drummed into me when I first started. Only with me, it was overcorrecting.. always trying to get ahead of the plane, but of course, I was behind it and trying to correct it from something that I had pretty much no control over. Once my instructor trimmed it out, handed it over to me, and I made a few orbits, he told me to remove my hands from the box and watch the plane. By gosh, it did the same thing with no hands as it was doing with me trying to correct it all the time.

This could be a combination of all the above, so just working with him to get the feel down is time consuming, but, once he gets the hang of it, gaining confidence that it won't just drop out of the sky, well, you may have the hardest part behind you.

Good luck!!

CGr.

Thanks for all the support. It helps me to keep from getting frustrated and thinking I am doing something wrong with him. We are going out again this morning. Let you know this afternoon how the session went.

Here is what I do first. On the ground with the engine off. Radio on. give him the airplane. While he has it check the pressure of his thumb on the sticks. With your thumb go right over the top of his or reach over and see if you can tap the stick from his thumb if you can't he is putting to much pressure on the stick. He may have a case of "heavy hands" and then the nerves do not respond well. If he cramps up he is holding to tight. then what you have to do is get him to lighten the grip and pressure on the TX and sticks. Teach him the "Feel" of the TX and sticks.

If in the air let the plane stall. He has to learn what to do anyway. sounds like you are taking it back to quick. As long as you have a safe margin of error let the students make mistakes that is how they learn. Every person learns at their own rate. Let him get a scare or two. he will learn. Then you take the plane back and tell him to take a couple of real deep breaths and calm down while you reposition the airplane. then give it back to him when he is ready.

I generally will not take an airplane back until it is below treetop level. First flights are done high. Altitude is your friend.

Be patient every student is different. Find the problem and correct it. The buddy box may be a click or two out of trim might have been bumped. As instructor it is your job to find out WHY he is doing what he is doing and correct it.

God bless you instructors!!!!!
By reading this thread I just realized I dont have the patient you guys have, and the one my instructor had on me for 6 grueling months




Edited by CGRetired to change the word "threat" to "thread". I would not normally do this, but, obviously, this needed to be fixed. Sorry for the interruption.

Is he using a transmitter neck strap? Not everyone likes them (I happen to) - but I know I had similar problems teaching one of my nephews to fly on my 1/4 scale Super Cub. He was "holding" the transmitter by the sticks at times when he'd get nervous.

As most of the post have said, you just have to hang in there ill you find out the problem. Teaching isn't as easy as most people think and you will find out that a lot of yard birds will give a lot of advise BUT THEY won't teach, just give advice. It takes a lot of patience , undrestanding and holding your thoughts, also a lot of figuring out WHY ??. Hang in there you will find the problem and all will go smooth.

I had a student once that I couldn't figure out, then one day I just flat told him to quit trying to figuer out what he was doing and just fly the plane. It took a couple times but that was what he needed. He was trying to " Analyze " what he was doing while trying to control the plane. JUST FLY IT !!!

Something else that was suggested, a neck strap, I don't like them and won't let a student use them if I can help it. The other possibility would be a " tray " ( I don't like them either ) he may be having problems holding everything. ( us OLD folks do have that problem in different ways . lol ) Hang in there and ENJOPY !!! RED

A couple of you here are also starting to hit on a little something that may be being missed.

He says his thumb is cramping?

Neck strap, and see if there is a need for adjustment to the length of the gimble sticks, and spring tension?