Are Hawk Sky's VERYslow rollers? Can I increase the rolling ability?
Ihave foam ailerons on my Hawk Sky. Due to flexiing I guess the outer section of them doesn't get as much throw as the inner.
Would ithelp to put the servo in the center of the aileron [I'd have to get extensions].or maybeinsert a carbon rod in them?
Is it a hassle to double up servos? I have more than enough weight on my thrashed HS now. Stillflyinggood tho but it would make it a LOT easier to fly if it "flipped" a bit quicker!
Aloha

You've got to realize that this isn't a high performance airplane and there is a limit to what the airframe will physically do. You could do any or all of the modifications you suggested and I doubt you would increase the roll rate much. You can only push a certain type of plane so far. I know it's probably not what you want to hear, but unfortunately it's the reality of your situation.

If you want that kind of performance it's time to change to a different type of plane

Ken

That airplane was designed for only one purpose and that is the most basic primary training. It is intended to be highly stabile and resist any upset, It will never be an aerobat.

It has excessive dihedral among other things that is intended to increase roll stability which of course will decrease roll rate when ailerons are used.

Interestingly enough if it used a rudder and no ailerons this higher dihedral has a tendency to increase roll rate.

John

Yo Ken!
I'm not looking for a 3D Hawk Sky just a slight improvement. I could chop the wings a bit and end up with a "roller". I still like the relaxing gliding "dihedral" of the HS. I know you can't have both.
The way my plane rolls now I have to plan way ahead to roll it.
Yeah I'm new at plane RC also.
Is there any other things I can do to help the rolling ability? Do it downwind/upwind/going up/ downuse rudder also??
Aloha Jack

As I and John have stated, this is how the plane is designed to fly. There's not much you can do to change this basic fact of how it flies.

Ken

The best thing to do is learn all you can from this simple introductory airplane before moving on to an intermediate airplane with better aerobatic capabilitys but not a full blown aerobat.

There is no such thing as the right stuff, No one is born with the skills. or knowledge neccessary to become a competant pilot. That can only be acheved one step at a time or what I call one rung up the airmanship latter at a time. Skip any rungs and you will surely fall.

John

Yup, as already stated.

You CAN force a bit of a snap roll out of it if you apply rudder and ailerons at the same time, but it will nose down sharply when it does so.

On an airplane like this rudder is required when using ailerons. When you have a large amount of di/polyhedral yaw will cause a roll. When you apply aileron (especially if you have increased the throws to get a better roll) you will get adverse yaw which will induce a rolling force counter to the initiated roll, reducing the roll rate. If you counter the adverse yaw you will maintain the full roll rate, increase the yaw just a little more and you will see a small increase in rate. As stated earlier, excessive rudder will increase rate but make it more of a lazy snap roll. Practice coordinating your rudder and aileron and see if it helps.

Look at it this way....I kit built an LT-40 once.....modified it quite a bit...lightening holes.....decreased the hor stab area and the vertical stab too, along with the control surfaces.....but increased throws..... on ailerons increased throws...... took out the dehydrial looking for a better roll rate......oh yea added winglets for a slower stall....what did I have after all that....well I had a great flying LT-40 with winglets, a slower stall speed.....You know what it flew just like an LT-40....
I guess a trainer is well a trainer

This is one of the reasons I advocate the Avistar so often. It is a stable training platform if you want it that way, but change the cg and increase throws and you get a very capable sport plane. So instead of buying two or three planes to help you progress, you getone plane thatgrows with you as your skill grows.

I second what R/C Ken and John said. On that type of aircraft that you have- if you increase the throw rate on your ailerons, it won't improve your roll rate . Matter in fact you could make your plane more unstable in the roll. The Hanger 9 Fokker DVII has a very terrible roll rate. I tried playing around with the throws and it got more unstable when I tried to do a roll at a higher non-recommended control throw. Like John said, it's the designed of the dihedral, and shape of the wing that contributes how it will effect the aircraft in a roll.

If you study the side view of a trainer wing and compare it to a Extra or Edge wing you can see the difference in dihedral among other things. Your plane is a powered glider designed for introduction- nice casual flying on a good day for training pilots, not for stunt flying other than loops.



Pete

Is there any other things I can do to help the rolling ability? Do it downwind/upwind/going up/ down?
Do plane roll to the right or left better because of prop torgue?

The wind direction has no relation to roll. The airplane does not know the which way the wind is blowing, so far as it is concerned it always comes from the front. To improve the roll rate of any aircraft you can do a couple of things, fly faster, use bigger ailerons, move them more, add rudder in the direction of roll. To make make a visible difference you need to do all four. Yes, it will roll faster with torque, than against it. Looking from the back, in the direction of flight, if the prop is turning clockwise then rolling left will be quicker than rolling right.
Evan, WB #12.

Thanks pimmnz.
That's the type of info I'm looking for.

I don't want to argue about anything in the above post's HOWEVER there is something in your original post no one has commented on.
Do the foam ailerons flex the same from the inner to the outer end? you need to measure this and see what the diference is.
Does the aileron servo stall at full deflection.
my point here is sometimes foam ailerons use the foam as a hinge and it does not bend well away from the servo horn and this could also cause your plane not to roll well.
I have seen the guy's at rcsuperpower's fly this plane on youtube it really looked like they were having fun with it. I almost bought one myself.

There is a guy at our field who taught himsef how to fly by flying low cost foam planes last time I saw him he had a brand new bixler glider from hobbyking with duct tape all over it he used duct tape for the hinge line on the ailerons I don't recomend this Blenderm is the stuff most people use for hinges on foam planes it is available at drugstores in the first aid aisle. Greg

What amazes me is how far this thread has gone. Roll rate for a foam glider? Ok. Whatever.

I had to break-down and look up what a Hawk Sky was. That's the way we built free-flight airplanes so they wouldn't roll - wing tip dihedral.

It has anti-roll built intothe design. Change the wing or change your expectations.

Yes Charlie, but I said ALL airplanes, not just this one. Dihedral won't prevent a model rolling, I have a couple of R/O models, with dihedral, that roll really well. One of them is an overpowered Headmaster. Hence the idea to add rudder in the direction of roll. I think the OP has got the idea that this model is not ideal for what is being attempted, but he can continue to experiment with the disposable model until he has finished something that is more inclined to respond to aileron. Perhaps he could respond with the results of his experiments?
Evan, WB #12.

here ya go

http://www.valuehobby.com/product_de...54&item_id=376

All's I'm looking for is the ability to invert and do a 1/2 roll downwind so I can head into the wind and land without taking up a LOT of distance.
Currently I'm stiffining up the foam ailerons with carbon rods,[ putting hinges tape]instead of using the continuos foam ones, rolling with the torgue, using both the rudder and ailerons as I was only using the ailerons before.
I haven't put all these things in practice yet. Will try tomorrow if the wind allows flying.

It just might be easier to get a plane that's designed to do stunts. It's like trying to make my old Goldberg Eagle Trainer do 3-D stunts. Not happening!


Pete

Ok. Enough is enough.

I am locking this thread down. It seems that the original poster is using several different threads to get by this issue. The question was asked, and answered several times. There is no useful reason to keep this going.

CGretired
Beginners Forum Moderator.