HI Freinds,
I am a beginner and trying to find out the best technic on sticks.
My instructor is keep telling me be easy on stick. I am moving fast and sort. Like playing on video games ( I should quit playing those xbox games I guess )
This is my question:
How can I be smooth on sticks? and techinc for holding TX or finger positioning on stick?

Thanks in advance,
Pat

Hi Pat,

I am going to take a stab at this - I am instructing a student now who wants to push the sticks to the stops.

With him I keep telling him that with a well trimmed plane, you really only need to make a turn once in a while to fly a neat lap around the field - and then the turns are to be gentle.

I look at video games as often being digital driven - the game is looking for a response (on - off), not a degree of response (analog) like what RC flying is about.

For example, you can move the aileron stick from center to full stop and have a travel of maybe 7/8 inch.This movement is going to translate to a wing movement from level flight to 90 degree bank (and if you continue to hold it on, to a complete roll).

Flying then becomes a case of moving the stick no more than is needed for the maneuver you are doing - up to full movement for some aerobatic/3-D maneuvers to very gentle movements for setting up a landing.

One way to learn the throw needed is to get a simulator - check threads in RCUniverse - there is even freeware available. I have seen students use this to their advantage. Even with this, it is a case of practice, practice and then more practice.

As for holding the Tx and finger position - this is going to be what is most comfortable to you. I seem to be one of the few dinosaurs left who doesn't use a neck strap or tray for the Tx and who just uses thumbs on the top of the sticks, rather than holding the stick between thumb and forefinger. It is that this is a case of how I learned and what I feel most comfortable with.

Hope that this helps,

I am by no means a "Pro", but here's my 2 cents worth. To avoid "banging the sticks" don't use your thumbs. Hold the sticks between two fingers. And secondly, think of flying the airplane with "finesse"...... gentle movements, no bang and jerks. Try this and I think you'll get to where you want to be. Rich

I'll second the "two finger" technique recommendation, it might help, if only to tell your brain it's different from the video game console.

Beyond that, try a little "dry flying" at home. Set up your plane on the floor in front of the TV some night, grab the TX and mess around with the controls and see just how slowly you can move the stick smoothly from the center to full travel and back while watching the control surface. Do one control (ailerons for example), then do another (elevator). Then do the movements you'd expect in a turn, roll in (say, left aileron), center ailerons, apply and hold a little up elevator, center elevator, roll smoothly out. If you do it smooth while doing something like watching TV, you came help make it more automatic. Then you'll just have to get those movements to work with what's going on in the air.
It sounds silly, but it might help reprogram your fingers.

Another thing, try reducing the control throws on your trainer.

I'm another one of those Dinosaurs, but I use two fingers on the right hand, with my little finger behind the Tx. Most of the holding is done with my left hand where I only use my thumb for throttle and rudder.

So I do a little of both.

Like Klumsey said, it's what you're comfortable with. But I usually tell newbies to try to get used to two fingers on the right stick. It seems to give most people more control.

When my students start banging the sticks I tell them not to move the sticks but to put "pressure" on the sticks.

My instructor has several ways to teach his students how to exactly move the sticks. 1. Hold the stick over for a count of 3 (1 thousand, 2 thousand, 3 thousand) and if the plane is banked too far over by the time you get 3 thousand then the stick is over too far.

2. He has you look at the stick and not the plane while he tells you which way to move the stick. Because you're not watching the plane, you dare not move the stick too much. That way, you can see how little the stick moves and feel it at the same time.

3. He holds his thumb and forefinger underneath the student's thumb which is on top of the stick. That way, he can feel what the student is doing and at the same time, show the student exactly how much to move the stick, not to mention, stop the student from doing anything dumb. He can teach anyone to takeoff and land on their very first lesson with this teaching method.

If one method doesn't work, then he goes to the other.

nascarjoe

Well,

I tought my brother to fly/land in 3 flights. Tought him on a stick 60 size plane. He is excellent at video games so his reaction time is high. I just had to give him some flight school on the ground first, going over what he's oing to do wrong and how to correct that habbit. Showed him the CORRECT turn on the ground first, then off we went... He was doing figure 8s on his 2nd flight.
On the 3rd I had him practice getting lined up for landing.. his 3rd approach ws so perfect I cut the throttle and told him to fly it to the ground.. Perfect landing...


Basically... Keep up the good work, you'll get it and it just takes a little practice and gentle movements...

If you imagine driving a car.. you typically speaking move the wheel very slightly, and turns are normally slower... When flying you now need to imagine that that 2" left to right is equal to the full 2 revolutions the car wheel can turn.. You normally don't need to rotate your car wheel 2 full revolutions to make a turn... same applies to the plane here.


practice practice practice.. tis the only way to become proficiant

I use my 2 fingers on the right stick and thumb the throttle/rudder cause I hold the transmitter with my left hand.

To keep from "banging" move your 2 fingers further down on the sticks. If you grab it at the end near the Tx itself it's very hard to move it the full way anyway.

It doesn't matter if one uses the thumb or several fingers to hold the stick, they will still bang or twitch the sticks. It might slow them down a bit, but they have to be shown while the plane is in the air how slow and smooth stick movement should be and that's normally almost impossible to do when the instructor is using a buddy-box. The only way to do that using the buddy-box is if another instructor is standing between the student and the instructor holding the master buddy-box.

When I was first learning, I was assured that you could fly smoother using thumb and forefinger, but when I went to my current instructor, I was shown that it doesn't matter which way I fly, if I don't know how to properly move the sticks. I finally found out that I had all the time in the world to move the stick to make a turn and that I didn't have to move the stick very often because once the wings were banked over, the plane would make a beautiful turn mostly on it's own.

nascarjoe

Sorry, but I disagree. If it was "almost impossible" to show students how little stick movement it takes while on a buddy box, there wouldn't be many of us here who could fly.

I know you're a HUGE proponent of your instructors method of teaching, and maybe it's the best way to teach, I really don't know. BUT, the buddy box method has worked okay for a long time, and I don't think you can convince everyone.

Besides, not very many instructors, or students, are going to feel comfortable standing close with their hands on the sticks together.

Our society just isn't all that comfortable being so close to someone they don't know. "Personal space" is a true psychological need.
Dennis-

I don't remember downing the buddy-box at all, I was just saying how those who teach with the buddy-box cannot as closely monitor and physically control the student's fingers on the sticks because the instructor has to keep total concentration on the airplane.

Also, in my last post, I never said anything about kinesthetic instruction being any better than buddy-box training, but for me, I had learning experience with both methods and by far (FOR ME) kinesthetic instruction is 100% superior than my buddy-box learning(?) experience.

Last, but not least, in NO WAY was my "personal space" invaded with this teaching method. The only time my instructor touched my hand was when we shook hands when we first met and when parted. He DID NOT put his hand on top of mine, but only his thumb and forefinger was UNDER my thumb.
BTW, this was only for approximately 5-8 minutes throughout my entire kinesthetic learning experience, which was very short. And I knew I had 100% possession of the tx and TOTAL control of my plane except for those 5-8 inital minutes.

As far as everyone else is concerned, to each his own. If they are comfortable and happy with buddy-box training, more power to them. Thing is, I spent a few hours not knowing if I was controlling the plane or my instructor was with buddy-box training and NEVER got the opportunity to takeoff and land, because all of my buddy-box instructors kept telling me that I wasn't ready yet, but with my first ever kinesthetic lesson, I got to experience both takeoffs and full down landings. I am now flying quite well and very smoothly on my own. While still learning on my trainer, I got to safely takeoff and land my Global DVII WW1 Fokker biplane and 25 size Cub. When I bought the DVII, I was assured by my other instructors that I wouldn't be able to fly that plane for a year or two. I am flying all three, BTW.

nascarjoe

We need to develop a force feedback buddy box.. That should solve the problem... This way they can FEEL what the instructor is doing.. Whatcha think guys?

One of the MOST IMPORTANT things to remember is that there is no "Best Way" to teach. The best way to teach is to have several methods, because everyone learns differently.

Example: We all know about how the right and left are reversed when the plane is coming at you. Some people find the easy wat around the problem is to point the stick at the low wing. Others find the better method is to turn away from the plane and look over their shoulder. And some people don't use either method, they just don't have a problem with it.

So to me, the BEST way, is to have a variety of ways. What doesn't work for some, may very well work for others.

K.I.S.S.

I usually find that people who play video games are smoother on the sticks than those who don't. Don't get too concerned over it. Get more time in the air and have fun doing it. It will come to you.

As for holding the xmitter, do what is comfortable to you. As for me, I tried the 2 finger stick method, but my hands would begin to cramp after about 2 mins, so I'm all thumbs now (need a bigger xmitter .

Oh, and lets not forget...fly more....have fun...

i'd say u try making more resistance in ur sticks...
Some sticks r very easily pushed... mine's OK.

I USE THUMB ONLY, cant adapt to the 2 finger handling!

Another thing I've done is had the student ignore the plane and watch my fingers as I go though a turn. I don't think it will help many people, as "knowing" and "doing" are so different, but it did help in one case.

Like I said, I've been taught with both methods and learned at light speed with the kinesthetic method and couldn't even come close to landing with someone who was deemed one of the best RC flight instructors. When this instructor can teach literally everyone to takeoff and land (with little help) on the very first landing, I would say that as far as results go with teaching methods, it has to be the best.



I've watched this instructor teach dozens of students this year and he has NEVER even mentioned anything about control reversal yet NONE of his students has any problems when the plane is coming towards them.

He uses the same method very successfully for everyone.

nascarjoe

This isn't rocket science.

On a buddy box all that it took me is watching the plane make a full pattern twice while watching the instructor on his transmitter - I knew what the plane was doing because I knew it was making a smooth 90degree turn and just watched the transmitter. For emphasis he did a loop and I saw that even that could be done without full stick deflection even on my trainer.

Nothing beats stick time - after a while you either get it or you don't get it. The plane only does what you tell it to do with the sticks. Move the stick X amount and the planes moves X amount. After a while it becomes second nature (should be only a few flights) to get the correlation.