Ok guys,

I am going to purchase my first plane probably by the weekend and I posted the planes I like earlier but which ones do you think would be more compatable for me. I want bigger and probably a gasser so here are my choices. Also taking into count the build of the AMR on the web.

1 AMR 20

2 Telelmaster, not the huge one

3 SIG Katets etc.

I have built a lot of control line models and just plane kits , non flying , call Speedy Built. You younger guys know nothing about them. I can handle a build, just need to get used to the new procedures, glues and tools. Covering is all new, used to be dope and fabric, no iron plastic lol . Ok leaning towards the AMR because of the ongoing web build but like the Telemasters a lot. The Stick models are nice and whistle when the fly by but may be a little too aggressive for a greenhorn like me. (New Phrase) I will be watching. gphil

Well I am one of the younger guy,s will be 75 and loved the LT 40 for the build and for the way it flys. You can't beat a SIG's Kit.

The SIG Kadet LT40 is a quick build and goes together very well. The wing took me about 6 hours, the fuse took 2, the fin and stab just over an hour.  I did mods for tail dragger and bolt down wing, and less dihedral, so a little more time was spent than normal. <div>
</div><div>The cost of the kit includes everything except motor, radio, and covering.  Add in 3 rolls of covering to the kit price and its right around $150.  I used 2 ounces of medium, and 1/2 ounce of thin, along with a few spots of thick CA.  I used epoxy for the bolt mod, so I added some to the firewall braces, but that is optional. </div>

Hi!
The Kyosho "Calmato" high winged .40 plane is a good one. And their Low winged "Calmato Sports" is a good second plane.
http://www.rocousa.com/Kyosho/kyosho_11211gb.htm
http://www.rocousa.com/Kyosho/kyosho_11215.htm

ACDii  

The mods you mentioned , wing mod, firewall braces, are they mentioned in the plans or something that is just known.  Also want a tail wheel plane.  Looks like the SIG has the nod so far.   I like them also, matter fact saw a electric confersion for them.   I am going to opt for the DLE 20 gas engine.  I assume the LT 40 would handle that eng.   Thanks for the info.   gphil</p>

Go check under kits the Kadet LT40 mod build, there are pics I posted of the wing bolt mod.  The plane is nearly completed and I will try to get some more pics of the tail wheel install.  I used a leftover tail wheel from the Top Flite GE P-51 kit.

gphil the LT 40 will not handle an engine the size of the DLE 20cc gas engine. It is designed for a much smaller engine.

If you want something that will handle the DLE 20 gas engine you are looking at something like a big Telemaster the 8 foot one. I don't think they are made in kit form anymore but you might find a kit in the classifieds or on an aution site.

A big stick is not a bad plane to learn on and there is a cutting service that does one here http://www.lazer-works.com/misc.html that would handle a gas engine.

Well, it may not fit the Kadet, but you can squeeze it into a CG Cub.   The cowl wouldn't fit, but with a large enough hole in the firewall for the carb, it fits nicely. At least when you lay it on the plans.  <div>
</div><div>I would never do that though, a DLE20 would tear it apart the first flight unless you flew at 1/4 throttle.  </div>

gphil,

This maybe a bit of advice that your not really looking for, but things have changed a great deal in modeling since you were last active.

I too grew up flying U-Control, freeflight all built out of kits covered with silk or silkspan and dope with Ambroid for glue.

I am now an instructor/check pilot at my club where we train a number of new R/C pilots each year. If you want to get into the air quickly buy an ARF you still have to assemble it. In doing that it will get you back into the game ie. attaching the tail surfaces, rigging, and so forth. Radios and gear have changed a great deal in the recent years there is a lot to learn and relearn. Covering is something that takes some practice its different than shrinking in silk/silkspan, doping, and painting. Sure purchase a kit start a build the hobby needs more builders out there. ARF's will certainly keep you in the air while you work on your build projects.

A 60 sized ARF trainer with a glow engine is a good starter, easier to see and a bit more stable. Why glow vs. electric for the initial trainer..... longer flights essentially re-fuel and fly you don't have to deal with multiple batteries for now.

There will be a learning curve getting back into the hobby, find a club with an instructor who will guide you on your way. Please understand that there are not too many builders out there anymore the majority fly ARFS.

Welcome back!

If I can help you send me a PM.

Steve

Well your post brought back some old memories (1'm 69 ).Rubber band wind up stick models with paper covering,control line models,and the old silk covering shrunk with dope.Was a lot of fun.

I was allways good at building models (my downfall is covering them with the iron on film ).The covering jobs on my models is never fancy but they all fly nice.

I'm in this section now because i was asking for information on the RC electric models (i'm going the other way...from gas to electric ).

If you are just interested in building your own model i understand and not here to offer advice on any one model over the other.But i agree with most of the above post about the "ARF" models.A guy can't even build one as cheap as you can buy an "ARF" that can be in air in just a few hours of assembly time.Most of them i have bought are well made (sometimes do beef up a few things on them ).
Some of them use stick on film covering which can be a little problematic.Most of them look a lot fancyer that i can cover them.

If you are going to get into flying them ....My opinion is also a 40 or 60 size trainer type plane is the way to go as they fly nice at slower speeds and are a lot easyer to see for most of us older guys.

For me in the past being used to using elemers glue and pinning everything and waiting for it to dry.it is a big step forward now to have the super glue that sets up in seconds or about a minute or so.It speeds up building,and making repairs at the flying field is fast and lets one continue on flying where in the past it involved taking the plane home and repairing it and flying the next day.

Good luck on what ever you choose to do.........

For what it's worth................................BIGMIG

LT-40 with an OS .46 AX for power

G'day

If you like building, the Kadet Senior (wing span 78 inches, wing area 1150 sq in and a very low wing loading) is fun to build and an excellent trainer for the older learner. I have several and I use them to teach older learners as they are extremely stable. In its standard form the Kadet Senior does not have ailerons and has a lot of dihedral. This makes a plane that can fly its self if necessary. I set mine up with the rudder connected to the aileron channel on the radio and then when the learner moves to a four channel plane (or modifies the wing to add ailerons) the change is not a great one for them.

The Senior will fly with quite small engines - we have one flying with an OS LA 40 and I used to fly one with an OS FS 40. The 20cc petrol engine would be total overkill and would shake the model to pieces. I use a Saito 62 in my most used trainer and that suits it perfectly. I like the four strokes because they will plod along at low revs all day with no complaint and not dead stick.

I looked up the AMR kit. If you really want to use a gas engine, then it seems a sensible way to go as the AMR 20 is designed for gas engines. It is smaller than the Kadet Senior, and would fly considerably faster due to is smaller wing and higher wing loading with all that engine.

The LT-40 from Sig is also a good trainer. I am teaching a 52 year old with one at the moment. It has an OS LA 46 in it. The LA engines are not as powerful as the AX series but they are tougher and cheaper and suite the LT-40 perfectly.

I am about to retire my very old LT-25 and build a new one. The LT-25 is a smaller version of the LT-40 but it is not a small plane with its 63 inch wing. It needs only a 25 two stroke though mine has the old OS FS 40 I mentioned before. The new one will be getting either an ASP 30 four stroke, an Enya 25SSBB or a Saito 40. This also is an excellent trainer. I use it to help people to learn to land when they are having problems. It is quite tough and being lighter, is more difficult to damage on rough landings.

Hope a bit of this helps.

Mike in Oz

If you're going to be working with an instructor and want a gasser, a large Ugly Stick could be perfect for you. They are great in the wind and can fly very slowly. They also are fairly neutral handling for learning aerobatics. The only negative is that they won't save you from your mistakes, but that's what the instructor is for.

Mike, Thanks for the information most informative . I do like the four strokes too. You gave a lot of infromation and all of you guys have been most helpful and it is read and appreciated. gphil

Sig LT-40 is good Beginners trainer plane.but price is not cheap.

$124 for the kit, and all you need is covering, radio and motor, along with some glue and building essentials, I think its a fair price.  All hardware is included, wheels, tanks, fuel line, motor mount, etc. 

There are more expensive kits out there that you still need to buy all the extra parts for, there are less expensive kits out that you need to buy all the parts for.

Find an ARF in this size for $124 that all you need is a radio and engine for. There aren't many choices unless you get the chinese ones that have no spare parts for. And those aren't very good quality.

Mine is almost done, just finishing up the radio install, need to hook up the rudder and elevator, and install the switch and RX once I decide on which one to use. I will be firing up the motor today.

Since I installed a 4 stroke OS 52 on it I did need to get a throttle cable instead of the one that came with it, and that was my only additional hardware I had to buy. The tail wheel mod was spare parts from my P-51.  If I went with the tri gear, then the cable would have been the only non kit part.

Super Senior one hundred bucks:

http://www.nitroplanes.com/90a270b-v...nior-blue.html

Avaliable now in two color schemes Airframes are great, Hardware is slightly lower quality than Official Sig Seniors. These have been avalible intermintantly in different colors now for a long time.

The main landing gear wire is unhardened so its a no brainer to bend up a couple out of dubro 5/32 wire. There have been over twenty of these Super Seniors in the last year or so at our field and they work great I use two: One strickly for training all my students and it double as a trainer for first time nite flyers. The ideal engine for this mission is without a doubt in my mind the most reliable and useful workhorse in the world, An OS .35AX. wants to go on the water then my second choice would be the 55AX

My second one is a Super Senior set up striclkly for cross country flying and that is a different mission and thread.

I also have one with four engines but that too is a different mission and thread.

The Supers Seniors have been so successful at repopulating our field with the best trainer that I am working on runing Senior plyon races this summer just like serious pylon folks with multiple rounds and all. Heck, there will even be a low wing Senior Kadet racing!




John

Nice looking plane John,looks like it would be a fun flyer.

BIGMIG

Thank you but they are just arfs. I have been a big advocate All the Seniors for many years and beleve they are the most successful trainers in the history of RC flight (thats my estimation). This includes the Sig Senior Kaydet Kit version, Sig Senior Kaydet Arf version, NitroPlanes Super Senior and the World Models Senior Frontier. All are virtually identical Airframes with the only differance being the Sig Kit Version has no ailerons (They fly great that way too).

Thats why for all the primary type instruction these days I use only my airplane with the perfect engine that the reliability is untouched and my Aurora buddy system that has many advantages over most other buddy systems. This way everything works perfectly and well matched to the mission and I don,t spend all the time correcting and tuning others airplanes before they even get to fly. By the way I don,t mentor folks for hire I do it because I love it and the hobby/sport/passion.

John[8D]

John, Well said. A buddy and I have adopted your system of training with our planes for the reasons you talked about. We have both been club intro pilots. The intro system is a good idea, but in practice it is hard to manage. The way we approach it now is simple. We do as you do. Use our planes and training system at no charge. The requirement is the person wanting the help must have a couple of things. First, their own equipment, (plane, engine and radio). Second is to be a AMA member. That is a requirement on our filed. Those two requirements is a statement that the person wanting to join in does join in. Our club has two intro pilots that will give intro flights. They do not train people.
We do also agree with you about the planes. My first suggestion to any new person is a Kadet type plane. My second choice is the Alpa type and the third is the Goldberg type. Like you I have seen all kinds brought to the field. I do throw in with you that once a person starts flying and getting around the flight line they pick up many basic skills setting up and maintaining planes. We are lucky to have some guys that will help new people set up their aircraft. This gives my buddy and I time to do what we do, teach people to fly. Of all the "trainers" there is a couple of what I think are bad and not ideal for training. If newcomers will stick to the tried and true trainers. It will make the journey in this hobby/sport more fun.

I see it your way too John. The last thing I need to do is make this hobby into a job. Besides, when a guy is paying you he expects you to jump when he says to and do the dirty work so as to make it fun for him immediately. That's drama I don't need.

Here's my Kadet, ready for it's maiden. It's my first tail dragger, my other planes are the Apprentice and Eflite T-34 PTS. Both of those are tri gears.

Have a great maiden with your LT acdii looks like you did a real nice job with your mods[8D]

John

Team Geritol

I usually recommend a newbie not use a 4 stroke engine. the reason why is that 4 stroke are more expensive and newbies have a tendency to ding up equipment. the 2 stroke is cheaper and survives better then a 4 stroke in a face plant. the 4 stroke can get its pushrods bent easily if they are hit but the 2 stroke needs to hit something like pavement or a big rock to really damage them a lot.

Thanks, Even though it was way too windy to fly I did fuel up the tank and fire off the motor for the first time. Ibought it used at a swap meet and this was the first time I ran it. It purred like a kitten and ran up smootly. Iwas able to get the throttle cut and idle adjustments made via the radio within a few minutes.