AAAAWWWWWWwwwwwwwwwwwwwww jimminy crickets, I wish you hadn't said that...

Yup, it is possible that heating a motor would make it easier to start. Depending on the type model motor, it might actually make it harder to start. Honest.

Having flown in Minnesnowta when it was below zero (I'd tell you how much below except I could never get myself to look at the thermometer.)...................

When it's so cold the residual in the engine thickens and makes the suckers hard to turn over, sticking the engine directly into your car's exhaust is one thing to do. I never used my buddy's Minnesnowta beater (a special kind of car usually only seen in the dead of winter) exhaust however. Lord knows what acids and caustics were in that smoke.

I wasn't worried about catching the plane on fire or burning my hand. More worried what my hand would look like the next day. And my jacket sleeve. And my watch. And my blood chemistry from what would be absorbed.

The 40LA is a less than desirable engine for that airplane and it would be a poor choice in your situation since using the known weaker (consideably weaker) engine will only compound the difficulty in flying the airplane.

The 46FX is on the other hand the ideal engine for the airplane and will make it somewhat easier to fly. If that engine is truely new and never run it is highly likely fine as well as the berings. It would be a big mistake to start a major stripping at this stage of the engine just on speculation from these forums.

Speculation is all any of us can offer, you need to have the engine inspected by an experianced modeler before you start tearing it down. This stripping the engine syndrome by new modelers who have acquired older stuff very often is totally uneccessary and often results in a screwed up engine as well as tremendous frustration. That is a great engine you got there. The very first step is as already stated in this thread is to stop turning it over dry. Get some fuel in it first through the carb and glow plug hold as well as the exhaust. In fact stop turning it over at all untill ready to start it beyond just confirming you got the #10 back where it should be.

That engine as well as most modern non ring two stroke engines has a taper bore with a subtancial choke. This engine has a piston fit that is free and loose fit at bottom dead center and a grinding to a halt crunch fit at the top dead center cold especially dry. This is what it is intended to do and what you are also feeling. Its Normal.


My apologies first off if it offends but someone needs to say it. There is very much more to prepping the airplane properly for flight than what you stated and if you refuse all on site help for Learning to operate your engine, Prepping the airplane for flight and flying your airplane, The flight will not last more than 30 seconds. I also suspect most of the responders in this thread would also agree as many of us who mentor new folks day in and day out, see this type of thing virtually every day at a busy field.

My appoligies

John

Building a kit to save money? Well, the money spent is done over a period of time but your not going to save any. Kit building will net you a stronger plane and a lot of enjoyment but it will never save you money building kits. I save money by building from plans and buying wood in bulk, bending all my own wire and making up my own controls but it only saves money on certain sizes and types of planes. The reason ARFs took over the market has been there price and ease.. Just something to think about.
I do find building more fun then flying and it relaxes me, makes my brain do a little work too. Keeps me out of the bars and strip clubs so even my wife is happy about it.

Agreed the P51 isn't going to last long even in the hands of a pilot with lots of natural talent but no acquired skills. That said, do what you want to and have a great time. Just be sure you pick a flying space that's about twice as big as you think it will need to be, and make sure it's really far away from any people or property. A shortage of trees is also highly recommended. One small tip that has made the hobby easier for lots of headstrong newbies is to stuff a trash bag into the fuselage somewhere. It's really convenient when you get to the crash site to already have something to stuff the parts into to carry back to your car.

Ha trash bag )  Thanks guys.  I actually just bought at Goldberg Eagle 2 trainer kit.  This was the first plane I flew, and I had a great time with it.  It was very easy to control and was able to fly at slow speeds and floats can be added.  I was going to use my 40LA on it but if you guys don't think thats enough juice I'll purchase another engine.  After recalcualting while the plane itself was pretty cheap for it's quality, you are right kits are not cheaper.  I may have to buy new servos, a new reciever and a new radio.  I will be testing my old equipment first and just hope it works.  I have everything charging.

I am not refusing any help.  I have been listening to everyones comments.  I am planning to break the engine in properly and I bought a balancer with the Eagle 2 so that I can make sure the front and tail are equal weight.  I will go through comments that any you have have given about breaking the engine and what to test before flight and I will read the manuals that come with the parts.  The only part that I probably will not be able to able to do is have an experienced flyer available to look at it, it's a small town.

I'm all set for now, once I get the part I'll install the engine, charge batteries and start testing the electronics.  I will not turn the engine over anymore without fuel in it.  Thanks for the help guys, a lot of comments and I will not put my engine in the oven.

You may want to give thought to new batteries too. Even if the old packs take a charge you don't know if they are any good unless you have a cycler to test them.
I have been given several trainers over the years and the engine most often found in them is the LA .40. I have used a lot of the cheap LA engines over the years, the .40 was my least favorite, they are/were pretty under powered even compared to there LA .46. The .40s still flew the trainers OK, nothing wrong with them, they teach a student to fly on the wing. They quit making the .40 a while ago. I liked the .46 well enough to use it in my competition fun fly planes. It has a bunch more power then the .40 LA.
As for breaking in an engine. While I was still using the .46 FX I never bothered breaking them in. I just ran a tank of fuel through them and as soon as it maintained an idle I flew the plane. I would do a lot of vertical stunts like the stall turn and big loops, heat breaks in the engine so the engine would heat up on the up line and cool down on the down line. Over the last decade breaking in a new engine has become popular. I only bother with ringed engines.

Excellent on the trainer choice its a fine airplane and it will serve well on floats. In addition the forty LA will be perfectly fine on that airplane even with floats. I happen to have a much heavier airplane an old plastic ARF trainer called a Ready Two the does great on the water even with that engine.

Its not required to use bigger engines in most cases but what is important is the float selection and positioning on the airplane, in other words the struts and strut positioning orientation is the key to a successful floatplane.

I have enjoyed float planes for years and even have just finshed a fifty mile floatplane cross country flight down the Colorado river last weekend. But I do recommend flying on wheels first and becoming competant that way before going to floats.

John

Good point about batteries.  They are old and even if they seem charged after I don't know how long they will stay charged.  I do not know what a cycler is, but I was thinking about leaving everything powered on till it's completley dead before charging because I heard that some type of batteries don't last as long if you start charging them before they are completly drained.  I will look up cycler to test batteries or just leave all the electronic parts on and go do something else and check back.

The transmitter batterys are most likely low capacity eight cell Nicds and the receiver pack is likely low capacity four cell Nicds. If they are ten years old them do not use them they need replacement. It does not matter how you charge them or how well they seem to work. Even after cycling At that age they have become a crap shoot.

When charging never let them run down completely this can and will cause some cells to reverse and of course then the system will not function.


There are better uses for old batteries that still will charge. For example a simple flight pack is very handy when building or working on an airplane to keep close by the bench to plug up the RX for centering when needed or simply to drive one of many servo drivers on the market now.

John

I'm pretty familiar with the Burlington Vt area (originally from Barre, Vt myself! back in another lifetime!) Here's the results of a search for a club in your area. Might want to give these guys a jingle?

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

Rats, that didn't quite work the way I wanted!! But just put your zip in there, should show a club right there in Burlington.

I just have to say something about heating the engine in the oven. You may have read that wrong?? Perhaps not but usually we use the oven or a heat gun to heat up the engine so the old hardened Castor oil softens up when you have an old engine that is frozen up and won't turn at all. The glow fuel you asked about is just alcohol, nitro and a blend of oil and usually in that blend is Castor oil that will harden and gum up an engine that is stored over time. Heat softens up the old oil and when you can turn it over then the engine is usually flushed out and cleaned.
We have some members here from Alaska and mid west and east coast where it tends to freeze a lot. During the winter one of there start up tricks is to warm up the engines first. Some use the cars heater and some do as mentioned with the cars exhaust. They don't have to be hot, just warmed up. Here in Vegas it only gets into the low and mid 20 during the winter, the engines don't like to fire right up when cold like that so the first start of the day is the hardest, after that there is no problem.

Sombody may have hooked up the fuel lines like that just to keep dirt from getting in....I often do silly things like that...There is a lot of very good advice on here and some worthless...After a while you will start to recognize ones you can trust...Two that are always bang on are John Buckner and Grey Beard...If they tell you something they know what they are talikng about...Thanks for your time and effort Guys and everybody else too.....

I haven't seen anyone mention the age of the fuel lines, so I'll also mention that they've probably gone hard and may have leaks. It's good practice to replumb your tanks every couple of years, so yours are way past due. It's 99% likely you need a new stopper in the tank too because the rubber loses its tightness in the neck of the tank and can develop a leak.

The fuel lines look good, the tank and them have never been used.

So I was testing out the throttle movement and the rod was stuck in the tubing. I was able to pull it out with plyers but it's all gued up. I cleaned the rod and the tube using some gue gone as best I could so that I could move it. How easily should it move or is that impossible to describe? I wanted to order more tubing and more rods but I was not sure the sizes. The tube is securily in the plane so if I have to replace it, I'll have to brake the wood which would suck. I was thinking there must be some sort of grease I could put in the tube to help the metal slide?The tubing does have a slight curve which causes the rod to rub up against the tube.


These were my best guesses on sizes and I attached a picture of the throttle rod and black tubing it I currently have.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...XD867&P=ML
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...LXF745&P=M

All the batteries seem to be working but I'll take your suggestions and buy new batteries.

The good news is, I was able to find someone that I actually work with that has this hobby, he has several planes and it sounds like he would be willing to help me and I can stop bombarding you guys with questions. Peace!


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Any pushrod in a tube should move with no resistance at all.

A throttle tube that is plugged can simply be ignored. Snip it off on both sides of the bulkhead. Drill it out or cut it out. Run a new tube.

The tubing size isn't critical. Anything close to what is there will work.

The 2/56 rod ends wires are quite large and if you use those its not even neccessary to use the outside plastic tubing. Just a small hole through the firewall and the #1 bulkhead. Its only neccessary to make sure the rod does not rub on the fuel tank.

And yes there should be no resistance from the rod and very little from the throttle barrell/arm.


John

I removed the tubing all together and it works better.  I realized that the battery and reciever are lose and will flop around.  Any best practices or should I just find a way to tape them down so they don't move and hit the servos.

Excellent lgmac. I what I do with all my receivers these days is to purchase some Velcro. I buy it in industrial strength bulk but any kind of velcro will work. Cut a strip of the Hooks that will cover most of the back side of the Rx on this strip carefully spead a thin layer of medium Ca. next cut a strip of the Loops that will at least be the size of the rx or even bigger which gives some room to position the Rx later. This strip you carefully sprad a thin layer of medium Ca also and thin place this in the airplane where you want the RX.

The velcro will provide all the vibration isolation needed in addition this method will provide for cooling of the rx. Formally standard advice said to wrap the rx in foam and tuck it in somewhere. With the new 2.4 systems heat seems to be more of a problem and many manufacturer are recommeding to avoid the wrapping we used to do and acted as insulation.

For batterys I do exactly the same and all my batterys have the Hooks portion of Velcro and the airplanes all have the Loops glued inside.

John

thats awesome l im heading to staples right now to get velcro. im almost ready to run it, should be by this weekend

This might help, flew it this morning and its still on the table:

John

I'll add that your battery should have a strap around it too to physically secure it to the fuselage. Some of the harder maneuvers we do can produce 10 G's, so your 6 ounce battery will pull on the velcro with 60 ounces of force. Velcro to keep it from sliding and a strap to keep it on the velcro results in a battery that will never move until you want it to.

Cool pictures. Thanks. You have a power switch on the plane, damn Iwant one of those. This thing is a pain to work on compared to my eagle since I have to work on it upside down. I have already velcro'd the reciever but Ithink I will be tucking the battery under something with some padding instead of velcro.

When Ifill up the tank, does it matter that it's upside down? On the tank there is a metal peice inside that sticks upward away from the gas and this goes to the muffler. If Iget gas in this when Irotate the plane upright thats not a big deal right?

Ijust added up all the parts Ihave been buying andfound outI spent $438 on everything, hehe woops. I have all Ineed for a while though.

Thanks again everyone for helping me out, you guys explained things well and Iprobably would not be starting it this weekend without the help. Once I put the thrust washer on wowwhat a difference!

LG yes the orientation of the fuel tank makes a difference. When the airplane is sitting upright on its wheels that tank vent tube that tilts up to the topside of the tank need to be up top. Now that vent tube is the one is the one that connects to the fuel line that you route to the nipple on the muffler.

The pipe that has that floppy tube inside with a weight on it is the one that you connect with fuel line directly to the either the remote needle valve inlet or with a front needle directly to the carburator inlet nipple.

If there is a third pipe through the fuel tank stopper then this one gets a short piece of line and is where you pump fuel into to fill the tank You know when the tank if full by pulling the fuel line off the muffler and it will come out here when its full as you pump. After filling this third line is plugged with a screw or if you like there are designed for the job plugs also.

If there is no third pipe or hole going into the tank then great do not punch it out. Instead us my preferred method and only to lines, The line from the vent to the muffler and the line from the pickup or clunk directly to the carb or remote needle. The third line is not needed or desirable (my opinion).

With a two line system you pull the line at the carb or needle valve and fill from there untill it comes out the line at the muffler. If the carb or needle valve is in an akward place to remove and reinstall the line you simply cut the clunk/carb line in the opern and install a half inch piece of brass or aluminum fuel tube and fill from here. It is the most reliable plumbing senarios as well as the simplicity for fueling.

I will post a picture of the little short piece of tube in a moment.

John

Thanks John,

I was asking when I fill it if it matters that I'm filling it upside down, and then rotating it when I put it on it's wheels.  I know the pipe is supposed to be be up, but to fill the tank I would like to able to see it is so that would involve having the wings off and therefore the plane and tank would be upside down while I fill it.  Pictures are helpful for confirming though what hooks to what.