dce21b

Hello, I'm extremely interested in getting started in flying RC Planes but dont want to waste my money on a foolish purchase. I currently own a RC Chopper and a DX7s but have decided that although fun my heart lies in flying airplanes. I have always loved planes... making models and stuff and playing simulators.

On top of that I also really enjoy building models and basically just doing it myself type of guy. I really want to work my way up to flying those incredible warplanes. I'm at a lost though of really where to start. I came close to making some purchases on some trainers but I dont really want a BNF or ARF. I would like to get a nice kit that would go together relatively quickly and fly my own.

Im not really interested in going the electric route though I would really like to go with gas. Not nitro but gas. The way I see it is I want to start with what I plan on using instead of buying a bunch of stuff I wont use any more once I move on. Plus I just love the sound of gas.... or at the very least i could swing nitro til I move on to bigger stuff but with the availablity of small gas engines I would like to get one of those.

I know everyone says join a club and stuff and thats fine because I have plenty around me but like i said I would like to build my own plane and then visit with a club once i finish building it. That being said I would like to find a decent trainer with 4 channels and something I wont get bored with easily. Seeing how I am comfortable flying a CP helicotper I'm pretty sure I will be able to handle a lil more then your average beginner.

Anyway I sure that I will need to build my skills flying and get to the point where i can handle faster less forgiving planes on my road to a warbird. So some advice on where to next would be great. Also I have Pheonix RC and Real flight so I also have those to practice on.... heres a couple of planes i have been looking at.

http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/krafty60.html

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar..._20Trainers_01

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...le_20Models_01

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXYXF6&P=0

http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...roducts_id=591 Convert to nitro?


I dunno these were some kits I was looking at... any advice would be greatly appreciated.

GaryHarris

Welcome to RCU and it sounds like you have done some homework. That's refreshing to see now days in this fast food, I want it all and I want it now world. It's also cool that you want to build your own plane. Although not gas, of the planes you listed I think the overwhelming suggestion would be the Kadet LT40. It's an interesting build. Pretty easy but at the same time, not boring. It's also probably one of the more forgiving planes to fly. I am building another one and have started a build thread in the Kit building forum if you care to join in.

Like copters, or cars, or whatever, the same rules apply in planes. If you can spend more up front for good equipment, youll save money in the long run. You know how that goes. "Well, this is good enough for now syndrome".

If you wanna skip nitro and go bigger with a trainer, I would consider this.

http://www.amr-rc.com/index.php?path...=AMR&langue=en

Edit: BTW, Cubs are NOT trainers and not a good choice for a first plane.

dce21b

Yeah I've been kicking around the idea for awhile now. I learned theres 3 local clubs within like 10 miles of me and even more further away. I will definately check out your thread.

I already regret not getting the DX8 I was going to purchase it but surprisingly the salesman talked me out of it. He said the DX7s was pretty much all I would need but I have a feeling I'll regret not getting it... lol I already put a backscreen light on my DX7s.

I do feel I have a nice transmitter and like it very much. I would like to follow suit with a plane that will be fun both as a trainer and still fun to fly after I move on to bigger and better things.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Yup you have done a lot of research and thats great.

It is refreshing to see someone want to build. Holding off on connecting with a club untill your airplane is finished is a mistake though as you will miss a lot of help that can be very beneficial. Also when the fellows do build or even just assemble an arf then show up for help things can be slowed down possibly correcting mistakes.

Its just far more helpful for you to get involved now.

The first two kits you listed would be my recomendation and I have flown both many times including Mr. Joes Krafty in the past. What I would definately stay away from first is the Cubs They will only steepen the learning curve.

I would also suggest staying with glow for a while before getting involves with gas as that gets very expensive very fast. Even something as simple and nicking a prop will become costly every time. Ask any other flyer how many props did they ruin learning So with gas you talking something like eighteen bucks and up.

John

GaryHarris

dce21b. Your 7 channel radio should be fine for years to come. You won't need more channels until you get into warbirds big time if you include smoke etc. Do you have a good battery charger?

dce21b

Yeah I get it but unfortunately I work a crazy schedule. Im a firefighter and I work either 24 on/off or 48/72 depending on how i set up my schedule not to mention the overtime I get. So at times it can be hard to keep a date to attend a club event and although there are a few clubs around, I'm not really trying to join each one and not be able to show up to either one on a regular basis. It is what it is i guess. Trust me I would love some assitance and will reach out when I can.


Ok so I got it ... and can live with it. No cubs and stick with nitro til later. I just really like scale planes and dont like the look of some trainers thats why I liked the cubs so much because they are scale and are supposed to be some what forgiving.

dce21b

New list of possibles

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Krafty. Balsa USA also has a new one called the student trainer. It's a builders trainer as well as a flying trainer. Something to look at.

GaryHarris

All good choices!

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

The Krafty would be high on a list of mine also the one that Gray Beard is posting about may be this one:

http://shop.balsausa.com/product_p/426.htm

It is quite interesting and I have not yet seen one show up or flown but it may well be a great airplane anyway I keep hopeing. It seems to have an unusual combination landing gear being both a tail dragger and a tricycle gear.

I know everyone at first wants the sexy airplane or warbird (by the way cubs, rc cubs anyway are definately not forgiving) and can,t wait to get rid of that trainer. Some just don,t want to be seen with the ugly things but they are so much more useful than you might think long after training.

One use is the second annual Kingman Kaydet pylon race coming up in march and run just like an ama rulebook event. Here are examples of three of my trainers or at least thats what they started out as:


John

dce21b

We get some decent wind around here which of these planes can take flying on windy days the best? Yes I know I shouldn't fly on windy days as a beginner but I'm looking beyond my walk stage and once I'm completly comfortable in my abilities I want to be able to fly even if it somewhat windy on a paticular day.

Also are all these planes able to be converted to 4 channel tail draggers, I also like the idea of bolt on wings. For me its gettting down to the Kadet LT 40 and the Eagle 2. I have to review the user manual on the Kadet still but on the Eagle it shows you how to do all the modifications with in the build plan... such as adding airleons and making it a tail dragger.

On the other hand, it seems as if the Kadet will give me more value for my money. They include more to the kit to make it complete such as a gas tank etc. Which can be a good or a bad thing depending on how i would like to set up my plane. I have to compare to see whats needed to complet both and what the final price will be.

And my researching continues.....

P.S. yes I had seen the builder/trainer from balsausa but theres not much out there as far as reviews etc. While it seems it would be interesting I rather go with something that is proven to be a quality product, design, and performer.

jester_s1

The student trainer is new yes, so it doesn't have a lot of reviews. That said, Balsa USA is very well proven so there's no doubt in my mind that it's a good plane based solely on their reputation.

FWIW, I'll offer a couple of tidbits of experience for you. First, the club dues are worth it just to have a good flying area. You're going to need a nice flat runway, and you're going to need big open space. If the club field saves you one crash by giving you a flying area that's free from obstacles, it will have saved you money. And if a club member does your first pre-flight and maiden for you and works out problems with your plane before you start flying it (and there is just able always something) the club fees will have paid for themselves a couple of times. And if you do get some training, either by appointment with an instructor or simply by having a guy take some time out of his flying day to help you, it's hard to calculate what that's worth. As for plane choice, this is a very well-traveled road, so there is no need to try and be unique. I'm going to suggest an ARF or a second hand trainer simply because trainers get beat up during the learning process. Have you second plane on the building board and get solo'ed on your trainer. Then sell the trainer to the next guy looking to learn and let your second airplane be the one you keep and still fly sometimes for fun. For second plane choices that are good in the wind, it's hard to beat an Ugly Stick or a Sig 4 Star. The Goldberg Tiger 2 is nice as well. All are old designs that are well-proven as "sport" planes. I even know a guy who trained on a 4 Star and did fine, as many have also done with Ugly Sticks.

dce21b

Hey Jester thanks for your input... I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here just wanna get some sound advice. For what ever reason I am really drawn to these goldberg planes. But am still thinking about the Kadet.

flyinwalenda

My Feedback: (5)

The LT40 is a good choice to start with and once your flying skills improve next would be a Stick(Sweet Stik, Ugly Stik, etc..) . I would recommend the Evoloution 10cc gasoline engine . Ive been testing one and just waiting for a good day to maiden the plane. This engine is well thought-out and the supporting components are reduced in size to fit in smaller airframes, and the price is right too.

www.horizonhobby.com/products/10cc-60-cu-ingas-rc-engine-EVOE10GX

exocet-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I'd vote for the Krafty 60. It has a semi-symetrical wing so it won't have the tendency to gain altitude in a head wind like flat bottom airfoils do. I bought an Alpha .60 to train my nephew to fly and that thing seems to gain altitude any time its pointed into the wind.

Another plane you might want to consider is the Falcon .56. The kit version is available from EarlyRC. Originally a Goldberg kit, it is a docile flyer but can do some basic aerobatics and has a nice slow landing. It is also has a semi-symetrical wing.

Tim

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

I think with that final list you really can't go wrong with any of them, and at this point what appeals to you should be the deciding factor now.

You have done some great homework on the mechanical aspects. I hope, if you haven't already, you will do the same on the aerodynamic side. That is learning how an airplane fly's and why they do the things they do. Such as why do airplanes sometimes climb into a headwind but not a tailwind? I'll give you a hint it has nothing to do with airplane design and everything to do with the pilot.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

rcken will be doing a review on the student trainer pretty soon once he has caught up on his job. The beauty of the student trainer is the kit incorporates as many different types of building as they could all in one plane so the student builder has an idea of most types of building when they move on. BUSA always runs a lot of flight testing before they put out any new product so not to worry about how well it flies.
The Krafty is a Joe Bridi design and is a step above most other trainers and would be my first choice but everything you have mentioned or that others have mentioned are also very good planes. Not the Cubs of course. The Tiger is an outstanding plane but not quite as easy to fly as a true trainer, usually they are a new pilots second plane but it's a choice thing and up to you.
The Krafty will do it all too.
I find trainers are about as much fun as you can have on a nice windy day. I have never mentioned wind to a student and take them out when it's blowing very hard so they aren't afraid to fly in the wind. I had one older student that was flying very well in all wind conditions until one day someone started talking about it and several years later this old student is still afraid of the wind. There is a point when flying in the wind becomes work instead of fun though but you can still fly in it.
It's been a long time sense I have flown the Krafty but I think it is everything you are looking for in a trainer. And looking at Johns trainers and what he has done with them shows you they have no limits. I would love to get the control of the sticks on all of them!!!

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

yeah, the weight of a .90, the power of a .40

dce21b

Hey I would like to go straight to gas instead of getting nitro stuff... but I believe this engine is still too big for the planes I would like to use them in. I had done some weight and dimension comparisons and this things basically would be the equivalent of trying to stuff a small block V8 into a Chevy S10. For instance....

O.S. 46LA ABN w/Muffler
Distance from center of engine to end of crankshaft: 3.0" (76.3mm)
Height from crankcase bottom to top of cylinder head: 3.3" (84.7mm)
Width including mounting ears: 1.9" (48mm)
Weight: 272g (9.6oz without muffler)

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGGV7


10GX Evolution Engines Specifications
Distance from center of engine to end of crankshaft: 88.5mm
Height from crankcase bottom to top of cylinder head: 72mm
Width including mounting ears: 44mm
Weight: (436 g)15.3 oz

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/EVOE10GX_Manual.pdf
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...eviews=true#t1

Im obviously new to all this but I dunno if this would work in any the planes I'm looking at just for the shear weight differance alone. Like I said I would rather spend the extra money for the gas engine but not if it will adversely effect my planes flying characteristics. Could someone with a better understanding take a look and see if I'm correct in assuming that this engine is too much for any of the models we are discussing.

The Eagle 2 suggested motor is.29-.45
Kadet.30-.40

The only one that it would be good for I am assuming would be if I got one of these:
The Krafty
Tiger 60
Trainer 20
Trainer 26

Does the Krafty have airleons included with the plans... and convert it to tail dragger? As much as I like it I think the Tiger 60 maybe too much plane for me

For what ever reason I am really finding myself being drawn to the Eagle 2. It has everything I want and the mods I want are laid out clearly in the instruction book as far as bolt on wings, tail whell and airleons.

The Krafty and Eagle have simular specs... why is one rated for a bigger motor and the other is not?

Krafty 60

Wing Span: 61.75 inches
Wing Area: 720 sq inches
Engine Size: .40 - .60 (2 Stroke)
.60 - .90 (4 Stroke)
Fuselage Length: 51 inches
Est. Weight: 5.75 lbs

Eagle II

Wingspan: 63"
Wing Area: 715 sq in
Wing Loading: 15.32 to 16.93 oz/sq ft
Weight: 4.75 - 5.25lbs
Fuselage Length: 49"
Airfoil: Flat-Bottom High-Wing

I'm really thinking of pulling the trigger on the Eagle II.... now I'm starting to look at the hardware I will need. But I was just curious of what you guys thought i should get for a motor if not the 10cc gasser.... tower hobbies has a package offering aO.S. 46LA Engine Combo