Hi,

I Recently got back into rc flight. I bought an apprentice and found I am doing great, and lost most if ot all the rust from a 10 year hiatus. I did a decent amount of sim on phoenix as well. A budy of mine is starting into rc and I started teaching hm on his super cub and on my apprentice with a budy box.

I think his priority should be getting used to controlling the plane when it is coming towards him. Also level flight should be a priority as well.

What do you think should be the things I should teach him and in what order?

I know this is not a black and white answer, so I would appreciate opinions and suggestions please.

Best wishes!

Have him do figure eights... many of them. Then go high up then have him cut the throttle and tell him to land it - dead stick practice. He will have butterflys in his stomach for a while, especially the first flight of the day.

What I do after a few weeks away is to take off then fly several orbits with left and right hand turns - figure eights. Then I start to do approaches without landing. Then, I work my way to the ground and do touch-and-go's followed by full stop landings. I do that before I do anything else.

Since I fly mostly glow powered planes, I run through at least one tank doing the above, then, once I begin to get comfortable with my flying, usually the second or third tank, I then begin with maneuvers.

You're doing a good thing for him. It's always nice to get rid of the rust with an instructor, or with someone with experience.

Good luck with it.

CGr.

I start my students flying normal patterns, first RIGHT then left . When they can do this consistently we start doing figure 8's all at altitude . Then we start making lower approaches until we get down to about 3 ft then we THINK about landings . A lot of times ( after they can fly the patterns ) I have them take the plane to altitude and just do pretty much what they want . My students don't take off until they can fly the pattern . ( WHY would you take off if you can't fly ?? ) If they don't like my way ~~ find someone else . ENJOY !!! RED

Yes, that's the way I learned too. What my post was about was someone that already has learned to fly and is trying to get back into it. Since he said that he recently got back into it, he probably has already done orbits and is trying to get his right - left coordination back. The best way to do that is with figure eights.

CGr.

The high work in instructing is the easy part for the most part the "3 awe shucks high" part.

IMO make sure the student has got that part down pat before going lower. Trying to move on to the approach and landing phases too fast is a mistake. Since each student is different judgement prevails with this. In the past I had a couple students do some really surprising things about the time I was ready to pull the plug on the trainer cord for solo. There is nothing like having to fly an airplane out of an unexpected rolling of a bird inverted at 10 feet when the student has a sudden mental disconnect. Just when I the instructor started to somewhat relax at the later stages of training; the unexpected can and does happen. Just some thoughts.

In addition to the things mentioned above, a useful exercise is to have the instructor take the plane pretty far out, turn back toward the field and have the student fly it straight back toward himself. Do it from all directions: some students are OK one way but not another. When you land, you're flying mostly toward yourself; this is great practice for that.

Another thing I do is insist that the student stand with his body (except for his head) facing the runway at all times. Turning your head to watch the plane is normal, but turning your whole body is a crutch and leads to bad habits.

I have one student ( has a medical problem ) that I had to have sit in a chair to keep him from " flying the box or the body " . He has done a lot better now that he sits. Another student that just doesn't get it and I was trying to quit this year after about 34 yrs. I'd like to just crash all my own and sit and watch everyone else . LOL

My post was to assist Droiddr with helping his student, sounded like he was doing OK himself just wondered about helping someone else. ENJOY !!! RED

Here is a link to good resource on the UK based BMFA beginners test [link=http://www.bmfa.org/achievement/files/2013/Fw-A-2013.pdf]CLICKY[/link]

Patterns then figure 8s without loosing altitude. Once my instructor told me when the plane is flying toward me and a wing drops to just move the aileron stick toward the low wing it all clicked. Once the student has that down I start teaching rudder input. My basic instructor didn't really understand rudder himself so it was my advanced pattern instructor that taught me rudder. Once a student hits a point where they can do nice flat turns I start teaching rudder.

Yeah, Gene.. that's a good one. I used that and it was used on me. Another is to point the antenna in the direction of flight - well, in the general direction meaning if it's going right to left then tilt the antenna tip to the left and steer accordingly. That also works with it coming toward you too.. just tilt it to the rear a bit and steer accordingly. What's good with these little crutches is that as soon as "it clicks", you get the idea and muscle memory begins to set in and it begins to come naturally.

The problem I have is when I lay off for a little while, the muscles take some work to get them to follow my eyes. That's why I use my first tank to re-teach myself to fly. And, another great reason to never get rid of the trainer. It really pays off on those flights where you are trying to rub off the rust.. getting back to basics with a basic flyer.

CGr.

I'm a strong believer in practicing landings. After many crashed during landings I concluded that the only way to consistantly make a safe landing is to have the plane touch down directly in front of me, going left to right or right to left, as determined by the wind direction. Landing elswere or in other directions introduces variables that most humans are not equipt to deal with. Discussions?

One of the good and bad things about a HZ Super Cub is that it will practically land itself if trimmed correctly. In addition to flying figure 8's, I make my students practice both deadstick landings and a fast idle landing, along with touch and go's.

Teaching landings is hard because there is so much feel involved in it. When I learned, I found that it helped to understand what's happening physically during the landing- the wing starts to stall, slow it down by adding some throttle, and then learning how to read the plane to know when that is happening. One other thing I'll suggest in your instructing is teaching the student how to recover from bad positions. He's going to have to learn it eventually anyway, and the confidence that gives the student is very valuable. The basics would include a nose up stall (push the elevator and advance the throttle), inverted (push the elevator while inverted and roll out), a low speed stall (advance the throttle then pull the elevator) and aborted landings (advance the throttle then rudder to get the plane going straight again).

I'll suggest working through this list in order, not moving on to something new until your student shows solid control in the current one. It's a smart move in every training session to have the student go through the previously mastered skills first to reinforce them and loosen up for the new stuff.

Left and right circuits while maintaining altitude
Figure 8's while maintaining altitude
Procedure turns
Loops, rolls, and wingovers/stall turns (makes it fun and they gotta learn it sometime)
Recoveries
Landing approaches (coming out of the turn in the right place and flying down the runway at just above stall speed)
Ground handling (rolling down the runway straight with bursts of throttle to get a feel for how the plane acts)
Touch and go's and landings
Takeoffs

For me, learning to do decent landings has saved me LOTS of $$$$. Not that my landings are perfect, however I rarely put a plane in because of messing up on approach or just losing it and not being swift enought to make a landing with limited time. I generally can take the time needed to fly ahead of the plane now and get it to the ground. Of course, there are those times that no matter how good you are, you may still lose one if the problem occur at the wrong time or you simple do not have control at all.

I was flying my 30cc Edge the other day and an aileron servo failed at a very bad time. Somehow I got the plane out of the very low alitude situation without being nervous and managed to get her down with a safe landing. A couple years ago that would have NEVER happened and my plane would have been toast. All those hundreds of repetitive landing circuits from right to left and left to right have paid some dividends now.

Top Gunn's advise about planting your feet on the edge of the runway and just turning your head is great advise. This is how I was tought. If you turn your whole body and feet and follow your plane, you will develop bad habbits. Plant them and don't move them. Good luck.

Hi,

All I can say is WOW, so many quality answers.
To clarify: I recently got back into RC and doing good, I am practicing lots of landing patterns and touch and goes, and all that is going great. I am also teaching a friend the basics right now, he is totally new to RC planes.
To make sure I give quality training I will go through and practice the whole list myself and make sure I am doing ok there.

I think Jester here summed up a whole lot of great answers.

Please bear with me: I just want to make sure I understand the terms and what they mean.


Pattern (or circuit) : in this case means a big rectangle where the downwing leg is further out away from the runway and the equivalent of the final is above the runway: basically a big rectangle one side above the runway. All this done at constant altitude. Make them in one direction or the other: left or right.

Procedure turn: if you are flying above the runway, how to do a 180deg turn and end up lined up with the runway.

Wingover/stall turns: Hammerhead?

Recoveries : from stalls, nose down and what else?

jester, I am not clear on what you mean by nose up stall vs low speed stall?
I am not sure why you list takeoffs last in your list (and ground handling near the end)??

Thanks again all you are great!

A nose up stall is if you have to much angle of attack on and the plane stops flying which usually happens when you are to agressive on take off. The slow speed stall happens on landing when you run out of airspeed and the wing stops flying. Both give you the same results. Both are recoverable but the one on landing is much more difficult because you are often so close to the ground.

Practice these, either one, at high altitudes. Slow speed stall by slowly reducing throttle to allow the plane to slow down until it cannot fly any longer. The plane will stall to the right or left. Simply add throttle to get the wing flying again, straighten it out meaning get it pointed down but controllable with ailerons, then slowly return to straight and level.

For the nose up stall, set the throttle for a comfortable straight and level at about mid throttle then pull back on the elevator until it stalls. Then nose over and do as above.

A hammerhead or stall turn - straight and level, go to full throttle then pull on the elevator until you are going straight up. At some point, it will run out of airspeed and stall to one side or the other. You can control this by reducing the throttle at some point after you have been going vertical for a few seconds, and push the rudder to one side or the other. It should nose over nice and pretty like. Go straight down, and at a safe altitude, say, oh, 50 feet, pull back on the elevator slowly to level it out then add throttle.

CGr.

My instructor taught me to fly a square pattern and try to keep all sides of the square equal distances and maintain level flight in every turn. Then reverse direction and fly square patterns and maintain altitude , no going up or down. Then I would practice figure eights one direction, then reverse and fly opposite figure 8's while maintaining altitude at all time. Worked pretty well.

I think you have a good solid plan of attack. I agree there are many quality answers here. These flyers on the forum have many years of experience and combined information is extremely valuable. I am sure we each make our share of mistakes while "figuring" it out, yet there is a very helpful group of flyers here that take their time to respond to posts to assist. I have received the benefits of that myself.

It is nice to know that you are concerned about the level of training you will be giving. I hope more will take your stand when training others. I know it would make better flyers and also help them save some money too.

I had a gentleman tell me to have a plan every time out to the field. Not that you have to be so disciplined (that was not his point), yet have a plan and have fun while doing it. Get something accomplished. I will admit that was one of the best pieces of advice I have every gotten and has not once failed me.

Now when I go each thing I achieve, no matter how small, has more impact. I have grown more by that advice than any one thing I can think of and I need to include the information shared here on RCU and the giants forum

I forgot to mention something that works wonders for some people. You can buy some cheap orange cones. Walmart sells them for a couple bucks each. I take four and place two of them at each end of the field spaced out about 3 airplane lengths apart. I then practice approaches over the cones on both ends observing altitude and alignment until I can bring the plane straight down the center line between the cones each time.

You can practice this with a newby and it will teach them control on landing and help them nail down their approaches. Also, it gets ingrained and when you visit a new field you will "lock" on centerline quicker. For some this might not help, yet for most I have seen this has helped greatly.

Luchnia,

Thanks for your wise words.
The instructor that taught me about 12 years ago said something similar: When you are flying, don't just 'hotdog' the airspace and go full throttle doing crazy stuff. Plan your stuff a few maneuvers in advance, fly the airplane, don't let it fly you. This parallels and complements what you said to have a goal or plan every time you go out on the field.

Thanks, I will remember that.

The rest of your questions to me have been answered already, but you asked about recoveries and why I separate ground handling and takeoffs. Nose up stalls, low speed stalls, and from inverted are the big recoveries everyone needs to know. They are all easy to do but newbies can have some needless crashes simply because they don't know what to do. The reason I separate ground handling and takeoffs is because one builds on the other. Maybe I should have called it taxiing the plane instead of ground handling. The idea is to drive the plane around on the ground without taking off, maintaining control the whole time. It teaches basic rudder use and builds precision. Adding in some blips of throttle gets the pilot used to managing the effects of torque, which will happen when you teach takeoffs. It also will give the student a feel for how the plane acts on the ground at different speeds. I know you're using a Super Cub to teach with so ground handling isn't exactly a complicated topic with those, but there is still something to be learned by putting the plane exactly where it needs to be on the ground using the rudder to steer it.