Decided to return to a hobby that gave me so much joy and enabled me to associate with great people. I have decided to stay with glow 4 strokes, just love the smell I guess. Planes I plan to finish in short time both have 91 Saito 4 strokes. But so many things have changed!

In the process of setting a up a field box. I have an old Carl Goldberg still in the box. Was thinking about going traditional with a 12V 600mah acid battery, need a charger for this battery, power panel, electric fuel pump, Sullivan starter as I love my knuckles, handheld glow driver, with a couple of drawers, etc.

Any good advice going forward on my selection above of going another direction is greatly appreciated.

You might want to look at using LiFe batteries. I have one pack strapped to my Dynatron. MUCH lighter than the lead acid, and one charge seems to last most of the summer. A 4S battery of largish capacity will do for the standard Sullivan. Just select according to the physical size, and how you plan to mount it to the starter. I made a simple tray that hangs below, and has a front and rear end pieces that use the starter bolts for fastening it on the starter. Can be made from 1/8 ply, suitably finished, of course. Velcro the battery to the tray.
I bought a Sullivan 6v electric fuel pump, and connected a 2s 700mah LiFe to it. It too goes a really, really long time between charges. Small enough that I can velcro strap it and the pump to the handle of the fuel jug.
Still use a clip on NiCad/NiMh glow starter - doesn't need a cord to the box. Several versions around. I like the one with the metal case that unscrews like a flashlight, so you can replace the cell if need be.

Of course, that commits you to buying a charger that will charge LiFe. But the batteries charge up in about an hour. And then you will have what you need if you ever decide to dabble in electrics, as most chargers are multi-battery type. No power panel needed, no heavy lead acid that takes forever to charge, no cords to catch in the prop. And more room in the flight box.
BTW - 2S 700 mah LiFe make great flight packs, too for an average sport plane. On the Sig LT-40 I use for training beginners, it can deliver about 13-16 15 min flights before needing a charge. And also charges up in about an hour.

I also use a clip on glow starter that unscrews to change the battery. For my starter I use a 19v drill battery. Smaller than lead acid and lighter and easier to charge. Several guys at the field do the same and have had no issues with starter life. I just bought a Life receiver pack and it seems to last quite a while and price was reasonable, although I also fly electric so I had a charger. I use a large syringe to fill my fuel tank because I like to keep my fuel system as clean and simple as possible.

Reading the replies it seems if I use a manual fuel pump, clip on glow with internal battery and get a Sullivan starter no need for acid battery and power panel.

This saves room for sure:

Does anyone have plans in converting a starter to cordless?

What Sullivan starter would you buy?

Perhaps I should expand a bit...
NiCads are still available, but harder to find. Likely the ones at the local hobby shop have been sitting there a long time. Many times they have been supplanted by Nickel Hydrides (NiMh). For the same size pack, you can use the same old NiCad charger you always used. But there is the rub - both may have greatly increased in capacity, so a "wall wart" type charger that charged overnight, may now take days. Just went through this with a friend that wanted to revive his old gear. So prepare to do a bit of Internet searching if you are looking to replace existing. to match pack physical size and capacity, particularly the ones in the TX. Moot point if you will be starting off with a new radio system.
Don't confuse LiFe (Lithium Iron) with LiPo (Lithium Poly). LiPo's run at a higher voltage, and when used in conventional, older flight gear, may be too "hot" for the electronics. Electric planes have that stepped down from their ESC. Or you may need to put a voltage regulator in line if using them in a glow plane. LiFe's are not as "hot", although are bit higher than NiCads. A typical 2S pack runs at 6.6 v, which is a bit high for nominal 4.8 (old NiCad powered) flight packs, but most do just fine with it. Not much different from the old days, when many of us used 5 cell NiCads to get a little more "oomph" out of the servos.

Ditch the lead battery and get a pack attached to your starter. Not only is it lighter and more convenient, but it's safer too without that cord flopping around. I use a 4 cell 2500 mah Lipo battery for mine and have to charge it about 4 times a year. A lipo/life charger will set you back $30. $10 more will get you a computerized charger that can charge anything.

I am sold on the battery pack on the starter. I want a Sullivan Dynatron starter. Will that battery pack work? Also can you recommend a cheap charger I can buy. All these new batteries are confusing. Easier to ask than get confused on the internet.

Thank you.

As mentioned, a battery simply strapped or fixed to a starter is very convenient. I use an older 2100 3S LiPo(11.1v) attached to my Sullivan starter and it starts everything I need an electric starter for. Some people will use a 3S LiFe battery as they're a bit safer, but the LiPo works fine if you keep it in a safe place and monitor it when charging. I only have to charge it a few times a year though.

Same for an electric fuel pump in a flight box. A small capacity LiPo will run a glow-fuel pump for months.

As for a glow-plug igniter, clips and wires are gone, and replaced with a small ingniter with single battery cell contained inside. I just use a regular D-cell alkaline battery in mine.. a single cell lasts months, or even a few years, and an alkaline cell is 1.5v's and gets that plug hot right now (vs a 1.2v NiCad), and that's one less thing I have to fiddle with charging.

So yeah, the power-panel is basically obsolete, and everything is cordless and light. Gone is the 12v/7ah heavy hobby battery. The heaviest thing in a flight box now is a full gallon of fuel, and tools, and all you take to the flight line is your plane, tranny, starter, and igniter. Very compact and easy. At least that's how I've been doing it since making some changes several years ago.

Welcome back to the hobby. Things have changed, but what hasn't is there's still great people, and that feeling of flying is alive and well. When I'm not flying giant gassers, I'm flying four-stroke glow planes, but fly whatever you have and have fun!

what size of battery for the Sullivan fuel pump and a decent charger for the Lipo batteries?

Now I can correctly configure my field box.

Thank you

Well, if you get the 6v Sullivan pump, get a "2s" battery. Any amps - but 700 mah lasts me a long time. At least a full gallon, but I haven't pushed it beyond to see how far I can go.
If getting the 12v, get a "3S" or "4S" (see below)

The "S" numbers are how many cells in the battery. LiFe are 3.3v per cell, so "2S" means 6.6 v, 4S means 13.2 v
LiPo's average about 3.7 v, so 2S = 7.4, 4S = 14.8
"3S" batteries are not common, so can be harder to find.

Hence why I use the LiFe cells. A bit safer in their own right, and even fully charged, when all batteries have higher voltage than their nominal rating, I won't be greatly exceeding what the pump was designed for.
Since 2S is cheaper, and the voltage is closer to what the pump was rated, that's why I went with a 6 volt pump.

For the Dynatron, I went with a "6S" LiFe, which puts out 19.8 volts. Lots of extra power, yet not pushing it to the max (rated for up to 24 v.) Note that there have been instances of the switch inside the starter actually welding itself "on" when using 24 volts...so no need to go super big....)
For the the regular Sullivan or the Dynatron, either flavor of "4S" would be fine, also. Physical size is the only real constraint, depending on how you decide to attach it to the starter.

Cheaper chargers generally use a 12v battery for power - car battery, etc. To plug it in using wall power you'd then need an external power supply to convert the wall power to 12v. More expensive chargers can do either. I use this one, but it is not cheap: https://hitecrcd.com/products/charge...supply/product

I started using LiFe batteries about 6yrs ago, and power all my small glow plane recievers with them. My first LiFe compatible charger was one of these...It will charge any type of battery, including LiPo, NiMh, NiCad, etc.. and gives great data to log your battery use and condition..It's AC/DC and will work at home or the field.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/imax-b6a...en_us_products

I've moved up into a 4-port charger a year ago, that will charge 4 batteries at once, which was quite a bit more expensive. I wanted a charger that would charge my dual packs in my HV(LiPo) powered giants but I still use the small IMAX for single batteries. The four port chargers usually run over $200 for a nice one. I found them IMAX was a nice starting point back in the day when I started using LiFe batteries. I also have an old Triton that won't charge LiFe's, but is compatible wtih LiPo's, and other batteries. With new battery technology, everything gets charged in 1hr... that's it.. for any type of battery I own.

For my starter, I use a 2100mah/3S(11.1v LiPo) battery clamped to my sullivan starter, and I've used it on most any glow engine up to about a 1.20 four-stroke, which it starts very easily. Really I only use a starter on my four-strokes, my gas engines and small two-strokes start easily by hand. I've found it's just safer using a starter on four-strokes... and they start with just a quick bump.

I use the same type of 2100mah/3S LiPo for my small glow-fuel pump in my flight box... just stuffed down in the same battery hold area that I kept the monster 12v hobby battery.

There's many different batteries that will work, and many of us do things differently. There's no wrong or right, as long as you believe it's safe and affordable, and do your homework on battery safety and charging. It's nice not being attached to a flight box, and not having a ton of heavy batteries to carry. The LiFe receiver batteries are the best thing since sliced bread... lightweight and affordable....and the LiPo's are great when you need some punch to power a starter.

When I got back into RC I looked at the batteries available as it all had changed. I decided to go with Life and A123 batteries. Now I’m building a few foamy aircraft and starting to look at Lipo’s. Here is my starter setup. I made up 2 3 cell A123 packs wired in series. It gives me just under 20 volts. Plenty of power and battery life lasts a long time. Life batteries I charge in the airplane and just leave them as is wherever. Lipo requires special handling and care when charging or leaving for non use; storage. They require that you remove the battery for charging. I’m new with Lipo batteries so others may comment. I’m learning a lot about Lipo batteries.

That's pretty much the design of the battery tray I also use with my Dynatron, except without the handy ni-starter caddy. I used some G10 fiberglass board for mine, but 1/8th plywood would also work. If using wood, I would cover the outside with epoxy/fiberglass cloth to encourage all the seams to stay together, and help protect it from the knocking around it naturally gets.
Just make the tray big enough for the battery, with room above so you can easily grip the starter and squeeze the start strip. I made mine a bit too tight, so it is hard to get the battery in and out, but since I just charge it in place anyway, it is only very rare times I need to wrestle with it. Physical length of the battery is probably the only real constraint. My battery is crazy big - 5000 mah, which is probably why it lasts all summer. You could go much less in mah (1000?) and still go a long time between charges. I'll do that if the current one ever dies. Going on 6 years though...

A123 is the original company that came up with LiFe batteries. The gold standard for them, BUT it went bankrupt several years ago and while the name is still out there, production has changed several times as various new owners bought the assets. For planes, I still ferret out the name - either original or whatever the latest is. For support equipment, since it is not critical, I'll buy whatever cheap Chinese import for LiFe I can find.

Yep... very similar set-up to my starting rig also, and I like the igniter caddy... nice touch there.

The LIFe batteries are nice in that they can safely be left in the plane and charged, where the LiPo's are best removed from the plane, and charged in a firesafe environment. Many of the accidents I've read about were from user error, so particular care (as always should be taken), needs to be taken when selecting charge rates/voltage/etc... If a LiPo is charged at a higher rate then recommended, it's likely to smoke, and spontaneously combust. When used and set correctly, and placed in a firesafe environment, it obviously reduces any chance of damage or malfunction significantly. LiPo technology has evolved, as well as user awareness, with those aspects malfunctions and accidents have reduced, but you can never be too safe with any battery, regardless of chemistry... just be safe and study all aspects. Much of it is about awareness.

I believe each type of battery has it's application. I use Li'fe's in my planes up to about 50cc size engines, and anything bigger then that I use LiPo's to take advantage of the higher voltage and power.to the servos/systems. Nice thing is most every modern charger will charge either type of battery as well as several other types. Once you get accustomed to modern battery technology, there's no turning back. I know I'm hooked, and there's several options these days to accommodate many different components.

I made my battery tray from aluminum I had in the shop. Bent and riveted together. I coated the inside with an insulation coating. I used coroplast as an additional insulation. I didn’t have battery shrink tube so I used heavy duty strapping tape. Main thing was to keep those batteries from ever touching the aluminum.

The cut off battery cord I added a deans connector and keep it for maybe an emergency. I also made a long balance extension cord. I charge the batteries without removing them.

I looked up the company I purchased the A123 and sure enough they now are called LifePO4 batteries.

I just purchased my first 2 Lipo batteries and a safe bag. So learning about them. I have some left over Hardi Plank sheeting. I plan to make a charging/storage station with it. My plan is to always charge/monitor them outside.

Si if I buy the LiFePO4 18500 at 3.2v and 1,000 mah and I solder them in series i would have 9.6 volts with 1,000 mah, is this correct? Then if I created tow packs and joined them together I have 19.2 volts at 1,000 mah?

You have the math correct. 3.2 is about the lowest you want to discharge the LiFePO4's to. For most of their discharge they are at 3.4 or 3.3 per cell. The bad news is that they stay there being almost flat in voltage, then die really, really fast. Almost too fast to realize your pack is getting low, and to give you time to get on the ground. And that can permanently damage them. So it is good for a flight pack to size it bigger than you would ever expect to use in a day.

I used to solder NiCads all the time, but the lithiums (either kind) are VERY sensitive to the heat, and it is extremely easy to damage them. Best leave it to the pros with the right equipment. For ground support stuff, I would think that a AA spring battery holder would be good enough - but I haven't tried one to see if the cells fit.

,,,

Dgrant your battery example is wrong. Series adds voltage but mah remains as one cell. Parallel capacity mah adds up but voltage remains as one cell.

https://zbattery.com/Connecting-Batt...es-or-Parallel

In my setup I have two 3s packs. Each pack 9.9. volts 2500 mah. With the special connector the 2 packs are wired in series so I have 19.8 volts but still 2500 mah. Life batteries last a long time for me. I did manage to run the setup down to minimum voltage. I thought I ruined the packs but they charged up with out a problem. If you have an individual battery in a pack that does not balance out you can make a connector to charge up that one battery. I’ve not had to do that.

In my case I soldered the battery packs. As pointed out you have to be quick with the soldering. Not too much heat for too long. But is can be done. I’m looking at making a spot welder for battery packs. My first attempt was a failure I used a cheap solenoid. Will try again.

I have looked at store bought packs and I can make the packs cheaper than store bought. Maybe not as pretty. I’m a tinkerer so I do things like this. I would not do this with a Lipo battery. I don’t know if they even sell Lipo cells.

I had made a diagram to share to be checked but must have 10 post before I can attach a URL. Rats!

Couple of questions:

Better to get batteries with tabs for ease soldering?
a 3s at 9.6 volts will it drive a 12v Sullivan fuel pump?

They're cheap enough - just buy the already made packs in whatever "S" you want. For support equipment, Hobbyking is good enough. One less thing to do, since you really should be soldering both main conductors AND balance leads.
A 3S probably will run the pump, but slowly. Why not just go with 4S? It would be over voltage but not super extreme....or go with the 6v version pump, and the even cheaper 2S.......

I led some slightly astray. Went out to charge things up (today is the club weekly training day), and decided to top off my starter and pump batteries.

For the Dynatron starter - I'm using a 5S LiFe 4500 maH. (had said it was a 6S) It has only been used for the trainer this season, running a .40 engine. Engine was new, so there was a lot of starting and adjusting. But it always started right away, so no prolonged cranking on it, either. Plane has 22 actual flights. Let's be conservative, and assume 30 starts. Probably many more, has I helped others start their engines, too.
MaH consumed = 254. So I could get at least 500 starts before I have to recharge (!)

Fuel pump (Sullivan 6v) uses a 700mAh 2S LiFe. 1.5 gallons of fuel used. mah consumed = 263. So about 4 gal of fuel before I have to recharge.

Of course, mileage may vary a lot. But in any event, one doesn't need big batteries for these things!

ETpilot, I see the error of my ways, and I'm sure now I shouldn't have been posting that late in the evening. My mind wasn't working very well last night. Thanks for steering it in the right direction. I really do understand the formulas, and have alot of experience, but apparently not enough to realize I shouldn't post when I can't see straight.

I'll say no more. You guys got this. I'm sure Erv will do fine and go on to enjoy the hobby again. As I mentioned there's several options available. Many of us try alot of them to figure out what we like best. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

You know what old friend, I understand how it works too, but when I am talking or thinking about it, sometimes I get it turned around in my mind for whatever reason, so don’t worry about it, you don’t owe anyone an apology.

Bob

The LiFe packs have less availability in sizes as the LiPo on the site you provided so I thought I would assemble exactly what I wanted.

As for the Sullivan 6 volt fuel pump I have searched but can only find the 12 volt.

I will need to understand your comment "solder both main conductors AND balance leads". Google here I come.