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Help with getting older models running again

Old 07-31-2021, 02:26 AM
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Default Help with getting older models running again

Hi guys

First post - just joined the forum. I briefly flew a few planes with my dad around 20-25 years ago including a Yamamoto 4 channel plane with IC engine. My dad recently passed away and I just found the old planes along with some other stuff he bought himself, in the attic. It would mean a lot to me to get at least one up and running again. There is no radio gear, and I cant find any receivers, but there are a few Futabo servos. Engine wise there are a couple of .40 engines and a .52FS - all brand new, and there is a used 0.40 that came out out of the Yamamoto when I crashed it into a tree. Plenty of odds and ends too including plug heater and starters, spare props, wires, etc. The Pico-Cub looks to be electric, and the Little Tiger seems to have an 0.10 engine included.

Could anyone please help me out with recommending a transmitter and receiver, and compatible servos etc. Fuel will be needed too. Any other advice would be most welcome or resources to read. I hope they arent too outdated and can still be flown, I know technology changes so quickly.



Many thanks for your time
Adam.


Old 07-31-2021, 05:19 AM
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Adam, welcome to the site. The best thing you can do is hook up with your nearest R/C club. Odds are there will be a member or two that would have known your father. Certain clubs have preferences to brands of radio gear, my local club is 90% Spektrum. Others may prefer Futaba. The servos you mention, are the wires twisted or flat. If flat they will work with just about any current radio system. There are some higher end systems that allow the pulse timing to be changed to make use of the new super digital servos. For most sport engines fuel with 10% nitro and 18% oil works just fine. If you have any further questions post them here. My father also taught me how to fly back in 1977. I lost him in May.
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Old 07-31-2021, 05:25 AM
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Radio tech has come a long way in the past couple of decades. While you can still purchase radios on the 72MHz band(the band reserved for aviation), they are few and far between. Most radios now days are on 2.4GHz and are incompatible with the old stuff.
My recommendation would be to figure out how many channels it would take to fly the most complex plane you have and buy something that can handle it. One thing to look at is how the servos were set up with the control surfaces and throttle. I know many of the older designs used bellcranks or torque rods to move the ailerons. With the modern radios, most use a servo on each control surface and mount the servo close to that surface to keep pushrods as short as possible
Something else to be aware of is that a servo isn't just a servo any more. There are many different types to choose from:
  • analog your standard servo. lowest cost and pretty much what you are familiar with
  • high torque made for heavier loads while normally in a standard sized case
  • digital similar to the standard analog except it has a more precise positioning
  • brushless similar to the digital except for the motor. Unlike the digital and analog types, the drive motor uses a drum over the armature instead of a couple of contacts
  • S-Bus these are programable and much more expensive than any of the others
There are also servos that mix various features of the types above. I use a high torque digital servo to control the rudder on a 1/8th scale hydroplane but I use a standard digital for the throttle. Depending on the battery voltage, the high torque servo I use will give either 270 or 340 oz-in of torque.

As far as what to buy, you might want to stick with the brand you had since the transmitter would use similar protocols to what you're already used to. I would recommend sticking with a name brand and buy everything you need initially from that manufacturer so you don't have to worry about compatibility or having to reorder the pins on the servos to get them to work with the receiver you buy. One word of caution, however. There are people out there(and here in the forum) that will tell you that you need to buy this brand or that because it's what they use. Others will tell you to save money and buy a bargain priced system because they've had good luck with it. I personally use Futaba and, even though I use it, I won't say to go with it UNLESS YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT!!!! Buy what works for you as not every manufacturer or radio works for everyone
One last thought, WELCOME BACK

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 07-31-2021 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 07-31-2021, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Adam, welcome to the site. The best thing you can do is hook up with your nearest R/C club. Odds are there will be a member or two that would have known your father. Certain clubs have preferences to brands of radio gear, my local club is 90% Spektrum. Others may prefer Futaba. The servos you mention, are the wires twisted or flat. If flat they will work with just about any current radio system. There are some higher end systems that allow the pulse timing to be changed to make use of the new super digital servos. For most sport engines fuel with 10% nitro and 18% oil works just fine. If you have any further questions post them here. My father also taught me how to fly back in 1977. I lost him in May.
Thank you for your reply, I am sorry to hear about the loss of your father.
My dad and I both attended a local club in the 90s for a couple of years, but after that I moved away, and then neither of us continued the flying. The club we went to no longer operates. I would be happy to teach myself again as I live in a rural area with plenty of open spaces to fly. I hope to post some photos, but cant at the minute until I get more posts on the forum.

Old 07-31-2021, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
Radio tech has come a long way in the past couple of decades. While you can still purchase radios on the 72MHz band(the band reserved for aviation), they are few and far between. Most radios now days are on 2.4GHz and are incompatible with the old stuff.
My recommendation would be to figure out how many channels it would take to fly the most complex plane you have and buy something that can handle it. One thing to look at is how the servos were set up with the control surfaces and throttle. I know many of the older designs used bellcranks or torque rods to move the ailerons. With the modern radios, most use a servo on each control surface and mount the servo close to that surface to keep pushrods as short as possible
Something else to be aware of is that a servo isn't just a servo any more. There are many different types to choose from:
  • analog your standard servo. lowest cost and pretty much what you are familiar with
  • high torque made for heavier loads while normally in a standard sized case
  • digital similar to the standard analog except it has a more precise positioning
  • brushless similar to the digital except for the motor. Unlike the digital and analog types, the drive motor uses a drum over the armature instead of a couple of contacts
  • S-Bus these are programable and much more expensive than any of the others
There are also servos that mix various features of the types above. I use a high torque digital servo to control the rudder on a 1/8th scale hydroplane but I use a standard digital for the throttle. Depending on the battery voltage, the high torque servo I use will give either 270 or 340 oz-in of torque.

As far as what to buy, you might want to stick with the brand you had since the transmitter would use similar protocols to what you're already used to. I would recommend sticking with a name brand and buy everything you need initially from that manufacturer so you don't have to worry about compatibility or having to reorder the pins on the servos to get them to work with the receiver you buy. One word of caution, however. There are people out there(and here in the forum) that will tell you that you need to buy this brand or that because it's what they use. Others will tell you to save money and buy a bargain priced system because they've had good luck with it. I personally use Futaba and, even though I use it, I won't say to go with it UNLESS YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT!!!! Buy what works for you as not every manufacturer or radio works for everyone
One last thought, WELCOME BACK
Thank you for the very detailed and reply and the kind words. I couldnt remember the band, but yes now that you have posted it, I remember the radios we used were all 72MHz. We definitely had at least 3 radios, but I'm at a loss as the where they have gone. I'll end up purchasing the new 2.4GHz ones. The most complex plane I can see me managing to fly would be a 4 channel plane, but I'm guessing 6-8 channel radio would give me a bit of leeway? There is a partially built Limbo Dancer which has 2x servos for the ailerons, so I think it's the more modern design you mention in your post. Also thanks for explaining the servos - I hadnt realised there were so many. I think again it's the basic ones I'm going to be looking, small light training models will be where I'm at to begin with. I dont think the basic ones are particularly expensive, but the s-bus ones are dear(!)
It's been that long since I've flown that my memory is hazy, but I do recall the throttle being on the same side as the ailerons, the right thumb - this was because my dads friend flew that way and he was the one that showed us how to fly. I found this difficult as I was still playing with RC cars, and the throttle was left thumb. I think I would like to try flying with the throttle on the left. I'm also left handed to complicate things. So am I right in thinking either MODE 2 or even MODE 3?

Regards
Adam.
Old 07-31-2021, 03:59 PM
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Throttle and ailerons on one stick? I know that's referred to as "Mode 1" but I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a transmitter with that set up. Seems like it would be counter-intuitive, to me anyway. With that said, I have seen single stick surface transmitters set up that way that I found hard to use. Most, if not all, transmitters are set up at the factory for "Mode 2", throttle and rudder on the left, aileron and elevator on the right. It may be possible to get a transmitter to work on "Mode 3", but it may require an internal modification that would require sending it to a repair shop, be it the manufacturer or an independent one like Radio South.
Your Limbo Dancer will need at least a 6 channel radio to really make use of the dual servo aileron set up. The advantages are:
  • you can set the throw of each servo up independent of the opposite side where, if you use a "Y" adapter or a "Y" with a 4 channel radio, your adjustments affect both sides unless you make the adjustments using the linkages
  • they can also be programmed to act like flaps or spoilers
  • unlike using a single servo, of one fails, you should still have a bit of control since the other should be unaffected, other than by a complete system failure in the transmitter, receiver or battery pack
There are a few disadvantages as well:
  • the radio must be programmed to operate two servos on channels 1 and (normally on Futaba, IIRC) 6. The instruction book will tell you have to do that
  • you will need to use extension cords between the receiver and servos. This gives you an additional point of failure unless you make the connection between the servo and extension permanent in some way
  • you need to be very careful and attentive when doing the connecting of the wing servos and preflight at the field. It's very easy to hook the servos up to the wrong channel port(s) on the receiver and have the ailerons move backwards or not at all

Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 07-31-2021 at 04:03 PM.
Old 07-31-2021, 04:15 PM
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I just reread your reply to Speed and noticed that you may be flying on your own. Just a head's up, in this case. The FAA has set an altitude limit of 400 feet and has other requirements that you could be required to meet before you can fly. It might not be an issue in your area but it might not be a bad idea to do some checking. You know how it goes, better safe than sorry. I know I have a general aviation airport 6 miles from my house so it could be an issue for me to fly locally since the only places I could fly are right under the approach and departure path to that airport's main runway
Old 07-31-2021, 05:59 PM
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You would need to check for specific transmitters but some are capable of both mode1 and mode 2. I personally use a Hitec Aurora 9 channel that allows me to assign any channel to any stick. The instruction book shows instructions on how to switch the ratchet from one side to the other. What the radios today are capable of is usually more then what most guys will ever use unless you get into special situations. What used to take us several hours now takes minutes.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:30 PM
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Speed, I said to go "MODE 3", it might have to go to a shop. I checked the owners manual for a Futaba 6L and all it takes to go mode 1 is to make a few clicks to change the program and to move the ratchet assembly from one stick to the other, even has pictographic instructions included.
You have to admit, your Aurora 9, like my older Futaba 9CAP, is a higher end radio that will have more capabilities and options than the 6L does.
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
Throttle and ailerons on one stick? I know that's referred to as "Mode 1" but I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a transmitter with that set up. Seems like it would be counter-intuitive, to me anyway. With that said, I have seen single stick surface transmitters set up that way that I found hard to use. Most, if not all, transmitters are set up at the factory for "Mode 2", throttle and rudder on the left, aileron and elevator on the right. It may be possible to get a transmitter to work on "Mode 3", but it may require an internal modification that would require sending it to a repair shop, be it the manufacturer or an independent one like Radio South.
Your Limbo Dancer will need at least a 6 channel radio to really make use of the dual servo aileron set up. The advantages are:
  • you can set the throw of each servo up independent of the opposite side where, if you use a "Y" adapter or a "Y" with a 4 channel radio, your adjustments affect both sides unless you make the adjustments using the linkages
  • they can also be programmed to act like flaps or spoilers
  • unlike using a single servo, of one fails, you should still have a bit of control since the other should be unaffected, other than by a complete system failure in the transmitter, receiver or battery pack
There are a few disadvantages as well:
  • the radio must be programmed to operate two servos on channels 1 and (normally on Futaba, IIRC) 6. The instruction book will tell you have to do that
  • you will need to use extension cords between the receiver and servos. This gives you an additional point of failure unless you make the connection between the servo and extension permanent in some way
  • you need to be very careful and attentive when doing the connecting of the wing servos and preflight at the field. It's very easy to hook the servos up to the wrong channel port(s) on the receiver and have the ailerons move backwards or not at all
Cheers Hydro Junkie.
I am based in the UK, and this was a long time ago so that may be why havent you seen anyone on mode 1, I think it was the 'go to' mode in the 90s over here. I was being taught by a guy in a club so I inherited his style of flying. But I agree with you, it doesnt make sense to me.
Mode 3 seems to the equivalent of Mode 2 but for left handers? I was thinking of an 8-channel radio? That should be enough?
Old 08-01-2021, 04:45 AM
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8-10 channels should fly almost anything with flaps and retracts and maybe droppable drop tanks or bombs. Just remember, the more channels your plane needs, the harder it will be to build and set up properly. If you're planning on flying a 4-5 channel plane to begin with, an 8 will work fine. It will also give you some "room to grow", something that is never a bad thing.
Just did a little checking on frequency bands. While the US has designated 27 and 50MHz(the later requires an FCC license), along with the 2.4 GHz band as general use and 72MHz bands for aircraft only, in the UK, it's 27Mhz and 2.4GHz for general use and 35Mhz for aircraft. Something else that won't apply to you is all of the FAA restrictions. I don't know what the UK's equivalent requires, might be something to look into as well.

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Old 08-01-2021, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
Speed, I said to go "MODE 3", it might have to go to a shop. I checked the owners manual for a Futaba 6L and all it takes to go mode 1 is to make a few clicks to change the program and to move the ratchet assembly from one stick to the other, even has pictographic instructions included.
You have to admit, your Aurora 9, like my older Futaba 9CAP, is a higher end radio that will have more capabilities and options than the 6L does.

Hydro, what the OP described is mode 1. Most mid range transmitters can do both mode 1 and mode 2. My A9 and your 9CAP by today’s standards are mid range sets. In fact this will be my last season with the A9. Currently looking/learning about the Jeti systems that offer much more flexibility. Nothing that a beginner needs however. A common misconception that more channels gives you the ability to add more features such as flaps, bomb drops etc. obviously you can do that but the additional channels allow the use of separate channels for each control surface that can then be mixed together in the TX while maintaining separate adjustments. This gives much more precise adjustments. The additional channels are great for giant scale that requires multiple servos on a single control surface.
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Old 08-01-2021, 06:42 AM
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I got the mode 1 part during my second post Speed, just not often a transmitter is set up to use it as it's totally different than what you will see in a full sized aircraft. If you look at an F-16, for example, right stick has ailerons and stabilators, left has throttle, pretty much duplicated in mode 2. As for what more channels can do, I was trying to keep it simple as not all transmitters can put a servo on it's own surface. My 9CAP can in vee tail mode with dual aileron servos and retracts but I don't think it can do it with a standard tail configuration, would have to go check the manual. He is looking at an 8 channel system so I couldn't see getting into what a system can or can't do without knowing what he's getting, no need at this point. I also didn't get into S-Bus for a similar reason, it gets complicated and getting overly complicated is not what someone needs when they are getting back into the hobby after a 20+ year absence
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Old 08-02-2021, 09:38 AM
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Thanks again guys for the replies. I have had a look at radios, and think that the Spektrum models might suit my budget better, and seem to have a lot of the features I'm looking. In particular, there is the ability to change between all four modes, which would allow me to try out mode 3!
Old 08-02-2021, 09:39 AM
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I'm going to post some photos for advice on servos etc, once I reach 10 posts.
Old 08-02-2021, 09:49 AM
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Hoping to order online or locally

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Old 08-02-2021, 11:53 AM
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Guys, I've narrowed it down to three possible transmitters. I also want to use the controller with a flight sim, likely Real Flight 9.5

1) DX6e
2) NX6
3) NX8

Opinions most welcome.

I will also need receivers - probably 2 to begin with to let me use both an electric and a glow engine plane. What would you recommend for a suitable (and cheap) receiver.

Many thanks
Adam
Old 08-02-2021, 12:55 PM
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Some photos:






Old 08-02-2021, 01:01 PM
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After looking around the online stores I see you can buy full RTF kits with transmitters for £71 - how is that even possible!
Old 08-02-2021, 06:31 PM
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Yes, there are some toy grade stuff out there. I have zero experience with them. Since modern electronics are virtually built proof ( I’ve been flying the same two transmitters for 9 years ) I suggest going with the EX8. For the airplanes that you have, any of their full range 6 channel receivers will work just fine. Just beware, there are counterfeit Spektrum receivers out there so make sure you buy from a Horizon hobby authorized dealer. The really cool thing about Spektrum is that you can get their bind and fly airplanes. Some of those are pretty cool and the small UMX models come with stabilization. Looks like you have a nice collection to keep you busy.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie
Yes, there are some toy grade stuff out there. I have zero experience with them. Since modern electronics are virtually built proof ( I’ve been flying the same two transmitters for 9 years ) I suggest going with the EX8. For the airplanes that you have, any of their full range 6 channel receivers will work just fine. Just beware, there are counterfeit Spektrum receivers out there so make sure you buy from a Horizon hobby authorized dealer. The really cool thing about Spektrum is that you can get their bind and fly airplanes. Some of those are pretty cool and the small UMX models come with stabilization. Looks like you have a nice collection to keep you busy.
Thanks Speed. There are actually another 6 models unbuilt, so I'll have plenty to keep to occupied. I am siding to the 8 channel TBH.
Old 08-03-2021, 01:38 AM
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I love it. S-148 servos in the wings for what I assume is the ailerons. Those are actually still available, if they will work with whatever brand of receiver you go with. I'm just wondering if they are still good after this long. I've got a servo that was never used that actually had the cord corrode so, if you still want to use them, you should test them on the ground somehow first. Maybe Speed knows if Futaba servos are compatible with Spectrum receivers, assuming you go that route.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie
I love it. S-148 servos in the wings for what I assume is the ailerons. Those are actually still available, if they will work with whatever brand of receiver you go with. I'm just wondering if they are still good after this long. I've got a servo that was never used that actually had the cord corrode so, if you still want to use them, you should test them on the ground somehow first. Maybe Speed knows if Futaba servos are compatible with Spectrum receivers, assuming you go that route.
Hi HJ

I think the futaba servos are physically compatible with the spectrum receiver - you just need to trim off part of the plastic plug to get it to fit.

And yep the servos are for the ailerons. So even though it’s a four channel plane it’s going to use 5 channels? How do you tell the radio transmitter to coordinate this?

Can I ask what gyros are for? I see RTF planes with these installed. Are they just to make flying easier? Better to learn the ‘hard way’?
Old 08-03-2021, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by tooth_dr
Hi HJ

I think the futaba servos are physically compatible with the spectrum receiver - you just need to trim off part of the plastic plug to get it to fit.
It's not a physical compatibility I'm referring to, it's electrical. Some servos have to have the wire order in the plug changed to let it work with a specific brand of receiver. This is just like the various types of servos, the wiring at the plug can be just as different

Originally Posted by tooth_dr
And yep the servos are for the ailerons. So even though it’s a four channel plane it’s going to use 5 channels? How do you tell the radio transmitter to coordinate this?
With the DX6, you plug the left aileron into the aux 1 port, and the right aileron into the aileron port. Apparently it is programmed automatically by selecting dual aileron under the wing type when you're setting up the radio. I didn't find anything about it when going through the DX8 manual so I don't know
Originally Posted by tooth_dr
Can I ask what gyros are for? I see RTF planes with these installed. Are they just to make flying easier? Better to learn the ‘hard way’?
A gyro is used to stabilize an aircraft in flight. While the gyro is on, an internal wheel is spinning at high speed. Due to it's inertia, the wheel will do anything it can to not change the angle of its rotation so a sensor in the housing sends a signal to a servo connected to the servo that will tell the servo to react in a manner than will keep the gyro and it's housing in the same position it started in. There are specific applications these are used for and, more often than not, they are used in helicopters
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Old 08-03-2021, 03:14 AM
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hydrojunkie cheers for the reply. Hopefully will be compatible, centre wire positive in both cases as far as I can see, a wire swap wont be too bad if needed. I think there are 8 x Futaba servos in total in the stuff I have including a set of 3010 series ones. Thanks for the info on the gyro - I had one of those wee gyroscopes when we were younger, the ones you pulled with a string to get going.


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