When at the final approach what should I do ?

Should I let the plane loose altitude with the elevator level (so it goes down but gains speed) and then flare it about 2 feet off the ground ?

Or

Should I try to keep it level all the way to the ground and flare it 2 feet off the ground until is goes down ?

At the moment I do the second but I bounce a lot on landing.

Or maybe they are both wrong and I should do something else ?

zoti,

You need to practice landing can be tricky and different types of planes can require different landing approaches (no pun intented).

Basicly you control your decent rate with the throtle throughout the glide slope
and you control your air speed with the elevator.

What I do with each new plane I get is go up to mistakes high (100-150 ft) and practice landing the plane to familarize myself with its glide and stall characterics.
With trainer type planes I have found that 75ft and 1/2 throtle going into base and then losing 25ft to make the plane be at 50ft altitude and idle going into final approach with the start of final being (125-175 yards from the end of the runnway) puts the plane at 3-7ft as it crosses the threshold and touch down is usually in the first third of runway(50-400ft) agian if you are decending to rapidly (due to model type or wind conditions increase throtle to maintain altitude)

I may not have explained it clearly its something that just kinda clicks with you after a lot of practice

I just close my eyes and pray.

Neither way is right or wrong, although, in your first scenario, you should let it lose altitude, while maintaining or losing speed, not gaining speed. If you are gaining speed, you are coming in at too steep of an angle. The airplane should dictate what that angle should be.

It is also a good idea to stay on the short side of a landing... in other words, be in a position where you may need to add a little throttle to make it to the runway.

Ever fly a commercial jet? Ever see one over-shoot a landing? (well, ok, maybe once in a great while) For the most part, you will hear them power up the engines while they are on final approach because it's much easier to add power when you'r coming in short than to bleed excess speed off.

Crashem gave you some great advise and was right on. I'll add a little to what he said.

Altitude is controlled by throttle and pitch is controlled by elevator. I think you're right and answered your own questions with both your answers. Again, every plane is a bit different, but the principal remains basically the same.

Reduced your throttle on final or before your turn into final (depending on the plane) and it should begin to lose altitude. You generally want to keep the nose of the plane level, if not, close to level. As the plane is about to touch down a foot or so above the surface, slowly begin to feed in some (up) elevator as to flare. You said the plane is bouncing when touching down? That's a case of probably coming in too hot or losing too much altitude too fast. You might want to stretch that glide path a little slowing the plane down more, allowing you to grease the landing, but us caution as the plane can stall

It all boils down to practice, practice. Experiment a little with different glide paths, angle of attacks, etc. You'll get better as you get more flying time.

Good luck,

I accomplished my first two solo takeoffs and landings this week so this thread is of great interest. I've been practicing on the flight simulator (RC Plane Master and FMS) and I have mostly worked on landings.

For myself, I have been cutting the throttle to both lose altitutde on final approach as well as to slow down. I don't remember how much, if any, I was providing input for up elevator but I found that it wasn't losing speed or altitude fast enough even though I was quite far out from the runway. Perhaps the other factor which I didn't see mentioned in this thread is head or crosswinds. This as far as I can tell will be another impact on rate of decent as well as speed.

Cruzomatic,
When you caution about stalling, do you mean wing stalling or engine stalling? Is there much risk with glow engines stalling during landings due to lack of throttle combined with slow speed and possibly wind factors?

I was describing the wing stalling. Trainers with flat bottom wing airfoils tend to stall less violently versus symmetrical and semi-symmetrial airfoiled planes. Trainers tend to drop more(lose altitude in a stall) as opposed to dropping a wing. That's has been my experience.

As far as engines stalling at idle, nah, I don't think that'll be a problem. As long as the mixture is set correctly, the tank has fuel and the glow plug is good, it'll idle all day long.

It's possible you are just flairing too soon. 2ft up is awfully high to start a flair with a trainer.

Let the plane come almost all the way to the ground, and flair just above touchdown, like 6inches or so. Then try to hold the plane off the ground, and it will settle right in.

If you flair too soon, you could drop the nose and bounce.

As a side note, you never want the nose wheel to touch down before the mains. You either want the mains to touch just before the nosewheel, or you want them all to touch at the same time. If you can't raise the nose to make this happen, then you're too slow. If you raise the nose and the plane climbs, you're too fast.

Thank you all for the replys.

I forgot to mention that I have an Avistar. I have been flying it for a few weeks now. My general experience comes from the Israeli Air Force flight school where I flew about 15 hours in a piper super cab.

The thing is I try not to land with the nose gear first and I happen to find myself flaring a bit to high and then I drop and bounce. I sometimes get really nice landings but I can still not see what I'm doing right on those landings that I do wrong on the ones I bounce.

I do tend to make my approach long so I can always add power to keep the gliding path. I did notice commercial jets do that as well and I feel comfortable doing it as well.

I guess all I have to do is practice more. What I did last time was to try some slow passes over the runway with throttle as low as I can keep it and a high angle of attack just to get the feeling of when it's about to stall.

I like to make a semi-steep dive and then level out and flare about 1.5 feet off the ground. Then I touch down, probally a higher speed then I need to(I don't have a warbird yet).

I just tell the people I am teaching to line up with the run way come back on the throttle and dont fight the plane. I have found that once you have lined up correctly you can pull the power back and pretty much let the plane settle all the way in until the flair. This does not mean the plane will land by its lonesome. Just that sometimes people learning to land tend to put input where input is not needed. If the plane was built and trimmed right then you shouldnt have to mess with it all that much. (Unless there is a stiff wind)

altitude with power airspeed with pitch

If it bounces you're too fast. Ideally the wheels touch the ground just as the plane's wing stalls. I don't get it right every time, but I know what it looks like when it's right, and I keep trying. Same thing with full scale, the plane won't stay on the ground till it's done flying. Tailwheel planes can be wheel-landed and held down at above stall speed, but it's a chancy thing, and can lead to a ground-loop if you aren't quick on the sticks.

OK. What I think basicly happens is that I pitch the plane too much to keep the speed down but then when I get to about 2 feet off the ground It seems like I can't flare it because no matter how much I pull on the stick it will drop. That's when I'ts bouncing. If I let go of the stick at that moment it will land on the nose wheel. I think I need more speed at the final part of the approach so I can flare it.

Yep, sounds like your stalling. Probobly a result of flaring too quickly.

yep flaring too early/high you gotta let the plane come down dont fight it, you cant land at 2 ft you have to come down another 24 inches. i guess im saying at 2 ft level off to let the speed bleed off, as the plane again starts sinking just feed in some elev. to keep the nose level, doing this will slow the plane down and allow a good decent rate without dumping the airspeed, but hold off on the flare untill you are closer to the ground. BTW the flare is when you lift the nose to land on the mains and to bleed off airspeed just prior to touchdown 2 ft is way too high.

wow tis not easy puttin in to words what is almost second nature

IF your plane is set up right (In my eyes). Once your a few feet off the ground and power is down. You should almost be able to set your TX down and grab a beer while it lands itself.
The more I TRY to land the harder it seems.
Lining up with the runway while I'm 100 ft. out is the hard part for me. (maybe I grabbed the beer to soon)

Sorry, but have been flying the full size ones for about 12 hours today, so this might seem a bit off for me. If yyou would like some good advise, take a look at the thread LT-40 wont land. There I have stated a good general way for the approach setup and landing profile for RC airplanes.

Sorry, if this sounds a little short, not meaning it.

Reg

superflea,

What you said was actually very clear. I wasn't thinking about the fact that I might be flaring to high and too soon. It's just that when I'm about 2 feet off the ground I'm too scared to hit with the nose wheel and prop so I try to flare and then probably stall. I couldn't get what I was doing wrong as about a quater of my landings were really good. Smooth touchdown with no jumping at all.

I might be going flying again tomorrow so I'll let you guys know how it went.

That is all good advice. I have made about 10 landings now, and have broken 7 props. It finally clicked during my 8th landing that I was flaring way too high. I guess I was so paranoid that the plane was going to pancake into the ground that I started using my elevator way too soon. When the time came to actually need the elevator, I had no more to give it and my plane would just fall to the ground from about a foot or two high. My last 3 landings a did not break any props, I waited untill about a foot off the ground and started slowly giving the plane some up elevator. It is a strange feeling watching that plane just "fall" to the ground knowing that you have to "catch" it. (I suppose it will take me awhile to get over that feeling). It worked out quite well, In fact the plane actually lands just as I'm about out of elevator. I have not solo'd yet (still have the buddy cord), but I thought I would share my experience.

Aimmaintenance has hit the nail on the head. Most people try too hard and over control the airplane. Keep working on it, you will get it and once you get where you just take off and come around and do touch and goes to you the whole time you will be smiling really big. (Until it gets old and you try to hover it)

I had that problem, I would flare too early trying not to get too close to the ground and would drop. After a couple of weeks of touch and goes I have gotten to where I let the plane(LT-40) get lower before I start the flare and the landings have smoothed out.
BTW- I try to look at "stall" like this- The plane will stall, but the engine will quit. It seems to take the confusion out of what a stall is.

rod

Rod,

Now you got me confused about the term "stall".

A stall is when the wings loose their lift. Engine quit is a "dead stick" or you can call is "engine stall".

Sorry, Zoti
I was refering to Xed's post about the stall
In the fourth reply he said:
Cruzomatic,
When you caution about stalling, do you mean wing stalling or engine stalling? Is there much risk with glow engines stalling during landings due to lack of throttle combined with slow speed and possibly wind factors?

some trainers will just float in. theres nothing to it. if the planes too heavy, just come in at about 1/4 throttle and cut the power about 10-20 feet from the runway. make sure you have some elevator left, i.e. dont be holding full up elevator with your plane flying level. that means its about to stall unless you give it some gas.