bman1128

I was helping a new member with his Nexstar.... I have been an instructor for our club for about a year... and have worked with a total of 4 guys... no crashes yet!

This new member is very green and thought he could take it up on his own... relying on the AFS (aircraft flight stabilization....not sure of exact name) that works to keep the plane level if you let go of controls.... it uses a light sensor on the bottom of fuselage to determine the angle of the plane ... in relation to up ... it assumes the light source is overhead.

Keep in mind, bright days are not optimal for flying this... overcast would be best.

I had read some reviews about the plane and understood how it was supposed to work. Anywhos, I talked him into a buddy box flight and I took off and trimmed it... quite an experience for someone used to total control.

Do to time constraints, we didn't wait for the sun to be directly overhead... He put the plane on the ground with wing pointing toward sun... and waited until the shadow from wingtip covered main wheel... he said the instructions said you could safely fly after the sun's angle was at 30-40 degrees... which is about what it would need to be to cast the wingtip shadow over wheel.

The close call(s) came on takeoff... (every takeoff) because our runway faces into the sun. On takeoff... you normally gain speed ... pull back a little to raise nose and then let plane climb, right?

Well... I did that and the sensor sensed the light in front of the plane... keep in mind that normally, the bright light coming from a sun or bright sky would normally indicate that one's plane is pointing up... or at an extreme nose up attitude... so the sensor (thinking this) tells the plane to nose over...

Due to my quick... lighting fast reaction... (hehe) I quickly raised the nose and climbed out each time...

Here's the main thing to remember when flying or helping someone fly the Nexstar.... you have to hold or maintain the control input to the stick you are using. Otherwise, the plane will try to level out.... (the sensor only applies itself to ailerons and elevator)

Let's say you want to do a banking turn... normally when you bank left... you bank then let go of the stick... then work the elevator to keep correct altitude/attitude... with this thing you have to hold the stick over to the left the whole time (or at least ride it more than you normally would)... as long as the Rx senses control inputs it will override the sensor.

Say you want to go straight up... (which, by the way, the OS46fxi that comes with this will do fairly well.... what a great engine!)... you have to stay on the elevator or else it wants to pitch the nose over to level flight.

Anyone thinking that they could take this out as a novice and not crash it needs to think about this: you still have to land it ... the sensor wont do that.

They say if you can do 20 takeoffs and landings with the real flight Sim that comes with it... then you can go do it for real... maybe so... but the real world, with a real plane and a real beginner ....with real adrenaline/nervousness... is NOT the same as a Simulator!

My .02 bottom line is this... get the package because it is definitely a good stable plane and you cant beat the price (includes plane, engine, radio and the Sim for around 399.00) but join a club and get an instructor!

The AFS sensor is just not as good as an instructor and COULD cause a crash... I'm not saying it doesn't work ...it does... but you have to learn to fly without the AFS eventually. It is set up so that you dial out a little more of the sensor's sensitivity as you progress... (meaning the sensor's sensitivity is decreased as student's skill improves) I say bypass that and let an instructor teach you...

IF you live where there are no instructors... then I would say to go with the AFS approach...ONLY after mastering... and I mean MASTERING the simulator!

Good luck... if you have any specific questions I didn't cover here... please email me.

Merry Christmas![8D]

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I've been flying for 7 years and have been instructing students for about 5 years now. I've several gadgets like what you are using. I can say this for a fact, they are NOT designed to control the plane in ALL situations. All they can do (and are designed to do) is keep the plane in level flight once it is up in the air. My advice is to take the device off of the trainer and use a buddy box to instruct the student. Nothing beats a pair of experienced eyes of an instructor to keep the student out of trouble.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Yea, no matter how good a sim or other electronic gadget is, none of them can add in the "Pucker Factor".

3DFanatic

My Feedback: (5)

Can't you upplug the damn thing? [8D]

snowwave83

Yes you can unplug it, thats what I did for my nexstar. I had heard someone say that after their takeoff their plane headed right for the sun, and I realized that eventually I would need to learn to fly without it so I did the best thing I thought I could do, never use it and never develop a bad habbit. I flu 1 or 2 flights with an instructer and 2 weeks later and probaly 25 flights I am loving it.

steve

YNOT

In the instructions, it tells you all that.

snowwave83

Yes I know, I read the instructions prior to hearing of the incident.

Dewalt17

I too have a Nexstar. I wont be using the AFS at all. When i read about the feature it seemed to be "the beginners answer to an instuctor". After using the sim provided with the Nexstar i dont know how anyone would want to fly with it "on"??? My first week flying with the sim i didnt have the AFS feature turned on, then i used it on the sim. Let me tell you it scared the crap out of me on the sim.
Now just imagine had i flown it for real. I havent established a good feel for all the controls and the AFS didnt feel right to me(a newbie beginner), so i can only imagine instuctors or experienced guys/gals who fly with the AFS must get really freaked out when using it. Dont get me wrong the Nexstar is a great plane, it just has maybe one too many "bells and whistles"(AFS).
Just my 2 cents.

Al Stein

Does the AFS have a sensitivity adjustment like the ol' Futaba PAs did?

Dewalt17

Yes Al it does have a sensitivity adjustment. The instuctions say to leave it on about 30% gain for first flights then taper off as your skills improve. Personally i think it may make the learning
curve longer if you use it. It just doesnt feel right to have the plane banked in a turn and trying to right itself.

CafeenMan

I only know a couple people who used auto-pilots during their training stage and neither of them have learned to fly - it's been well over a year for both of them. We all try to get them to take the things out of their planes, but they won't do it. And the stupid thing is that it hasn't prevented any crashes. Both of them are on their 2nd or 3rd plane.

Kenny R

when i was learning to fly, my instructor kept telling me "youve got to learn to fly the plane and dont let the plane fly you." I might be wrong but if i started learning to fly with this type system i think the plane might still be flying me.


Isnt it best to learn how to fly the way your going to fly so you dont have to retrain yourself?

I've not flown one of these planes but if someone showed up with one at the field and asked for my help i wouldnt fly it unless this system was unhooked. I want the plane to do what i want it to do not what it wants to do.

Dewey2

My Feedback: (24)

those thing only serve to raise the wing load . all that flap crap don't count when you get your new toy. i have played with peoples planes and helicoptors with that junk on it . yea you look cool while it works . wait till that thing goes the way it should before the plane went up when that thing jams all over . its gona be a fun ride . i have saw people flying planes not with the hobbice junk but the other junk. doing everthing and think they got it take it off the junk go back up and be back before they new they had taken off i learned on a yard dart with th old futaba atack 4 enya 40 still have it when your learning use the kiss principle you will have better luck than relie on modern day failures to help you crash it will be easy enough for you without it

Jean13704

I too have been instructing a student with a Nexstar. First thing we did was to unhook the AFS. Too me, the plane seems harder to fly than most other trainers, e.g. Superstar, LT-40, etc. It does slow down for landing, but turns seem to be very mushy -- due to the airbrakes and wing extensions I think. Just does not seem to favor the learning of precision in control by new people. Would be interested in hearing the views of other instructors on the Nexstar -- apart from the sim (which I very much value) and the AFS (which I consider worthless).

Combat Addict

Being drafted as an Instructor for next year, I would like to thank you all for pointing this out.
I was told that many times also, and IMO most planes don't have these type of things, so learn without them. Isn't that what the instructor is for? To teach them? Not some electronic device. The sim is great, sims can help a lot. I think I would/will have to think carefully about the AFS if a student shows up with one.

whstlngdeath

My Feedback: (15)

Look at this from a slightly different perspective, learning to fly full scale. The FAA won't let you work up a flight plan with the new electronic gizmos that calculate everything for you. You still have to use the old E6B whiz wheel to manually calculate your flight parameters. Also, you are not allowed to learn with electronic help such as autopilot or shoot precision approaches with the GPS. The best way to learn to fly a airplane, full scale or not, is to FLY the plane. That means tried-and-proven methods like dead reckoning and seat of the pants feel along with that person in the right seat, or standing next to you: the instructor. Thousands of people have learned to fly successfully without these gimmicks, and to me, they are just needless items that use up money better served in more practical items, like a good radio that will grow with you.

Jesse

bennie23233

I own a NexStar...and my instructor and I agreed that the AFS would be DISCONNECTED until further notice. I haven't even configured the thing. It isn't that I wouldn't like to try it out one day, but we feel that it is better to learn the traditional way.

As for the way it handles, he hasn't indicated to me that it is mushy or unresponsive. We are going at much slower speeds, but I find that the sticks do exactly what I ask them to....without hesitation or a clunky feeling. At the end of our last session, he took over and executed a few rolls and some hard turns. He looked at me and said, "wow...most trainers really don't like you doing those things to it".

I would agree that the AFS was a bell and whistle that wasn't essential to the package, but IMHO to have such an all inclusive package was what attracted this new pilot to the hobby in the first place. My buddy has a Superstar, which he took up for the first time this weekend (with the same instructor), and the instructor indicated that my simulator time has paid off in how quickly I am learning to fly. I doubt that if I bought a plane that didn't come with a sim, that I would have been so eager to buy one and start using it.

Just my $.02

gatekeeper

I have this plane(had) and is pretty much destroyed it after a crash. I think leaving the afs and the air brakes was a mistake. I did not have a problem taking off but did have problems controling the plane. Even taking the motor to idle it wanted to just float or keep going up. I think it probably works fine under ideal weather conditions. If you flying against the wind you have keep fighting the plane to keep it level.If you flying with the wind your fine until you have to turn back, I always thought that when you turn you have to speed up but this plane it wanted to climb up again. I miss-judged how far the plane was when it was flying with the wind and I realized that it was close to power lines. I got freaked out pull on the stick to the left and I was upside down too close and "BAM" parts everywhere.
The plane has a floating piece thats supposed to hold and protect the wings but I think it held too much, maybe rubber bands is better for trainers. I was going to repair the plane but the parts are back ordered and seemed expensive. When I inspected the plane I noticed that the engine was crooked to the right. I removed the monokote and took measurements and found out that the plate that holds the engine was mounted about 1/8" off from side to side(crooked) I have looked at this and there is no way that this was caused by the crash. I took measurements and the rest of the plane is square. Hobbico says that is normal. Is this for real? it looks to me like a manefacturing defect. After this I have decided to gut it out and put the guts into a MEGATECH NITRO SKYLINER ARF. The plane looks a lot like the hobbico without all the extra training stuff.

Combat Addict

Some planes have degrees of thrust, up or down, and to the side. Something to consider.

Dewalt17

My Nexstar also has its engine off set, not down the center line. I believe its to counter the torque of the engine. Since this is my first plane i cant say if all planes are like this. My Nexstar flys great(without the AFS) and the speed brakes do make it climb at higher throttle positions. My instructor keeps nagging me to take them off, but somehow i feel it helps me to land at slower speeds so i keep them on. Not sure if its just mental or it makes a big difference since i never have flown with them off.

FletchNJ

Gatekeeper, were you flying at an approved field? It also seems that you were not on a buddy bix with your instructor, or he wasn't with you. Just curious how many flights you got in before your crash.

Also as far as the offset engine, this is correct. The off center mount helps counteract the torque from the engine, and keeps it straighter on the ground. Ever notice you need a little left rudder on your takeoff roll to keep it straight?