I am considering putting a Saito 56 or RCV 58 in the Hangar 9 Piper Cub. This will be my first plane. Do you have any preferences as to which engine I select??? Thanks!

Since it is your first plane, you might want to consider the Saito, as it is more common than the newer RCV. That means you'll be able to get more help (opinions) from other modellers at teh feild, rather than: "Oooh, that's cool.. Hmmm.. Lets try this.."

First plane? Hmmmm....... the Piper Cub is not really a trainer... 'nuff said about that

I've got a Saito 72, an OS FS70 and an ASP 52 4 stroke, so my experience is based on these...

The Saito requires a 40 min inial break in run on a test stand on a very rich setting to not exceed 4,000 rpm. For this, ideally you need to have some previous experince with model engines and a tach. It would be best not to do the inial run on the plane. After this period when the engine is on the plane, you'll find that the low end needle is set very rich. I had the help of a very experience club member to get the engine running right, and it was a lengthy process of tweeking the low end mixture to get it just right.

OTOH, the OS and the ASP ran pretty well straight from the box with only minor tweaking. If you have to go with the cub, I'd recommend either the OS or Magnum 52 4 stroke, and get some help on the break in.

Probably not. I've got a friend with the H9 Cub. It's a nice enough airplane, but it certainly isn't a beginner's model. The ground handling on takeoff is very tricky, and my friend manages to screw it up about 1/10th of the time it seems. He's been flying models (including other Cubs) for almost 15 years. An H9 Cub for a first plane just isn't a wise choice.

You'll need to buy a tach with most any four-stroke, and they'll all need to be broken in below a certain RPM level.

I bought a piper cub J3 48 as second plane(63in wing span).
What's the trick part when taking off a piper cub? Any words of wisdom? I just want to be prepared.

Nilo

By the way I bought the RCV58CD for this piper cub.

Buy Saito along with another plane as a trainer and get some help from a friend who are familiar with 4-stroke engines. You will need help with any engine.
As per 40 minutes brake-in on a stand on 4000 RPM, I can be mistaken, but I am sure, that the manual doesn't tell to do something like that.

I have a bunch of Saito's. The 4000 thing I am sure of. I believe it was in some of the older instructions. I do not believe they are in some of the newer ones.

Mark Shuman

My Saito 72 is around 7 months old. The manual was last revised in 2002 and is for the following engines:
FA-30S, FA-40a, FA-50, FA-56, FA-65, FA-72, FA-80, FA-91S, FA-100, FA-120S, FA-150, FA-180 and the corresponding Golden Knights.

On page 6, point 8, initial break-in it states:
Do not exceed 4,000 rpm for the first 10 minutes of operation. This allows all parts to mate properly with good lubrication.
Subsequent runs may be made while slightly leaning out the mixture with each tank of fuel. Forty minutes is considered sufficient time for normal break-in prior to the first flight.

Point 9, after break-in:
If a test stand was used for the break-in procedure, the engine may now be mounted in the aircraft......

I know the J3 Piper is not a 'TRAINER' in the traditional sense. Also I am getting some useful flight experience with AFP simulator. I can already fly a P51d Mustang and very well! I don't want to get a plane that I am going to get bored with very quickly! Believe me, I was tempted to buy a P51, but I thought better of it and got a cub. I just couldn't see getting a 'trainer', as I really like scale aircraft... We'll see. The cub should be here today and I will start building while getting sim time with the cub. I opted for the Saito 56.

I just fired up my RCV58 yesterday after most of work on the piper done.
I got really surprised with the noise that this engine make, very diferent from what we are familiar with ( 2 stroke ).
I'm starting breaking it in and will post some pictures here, some acessories I used, may help someone.

Nilo

The trick is... SLOWLY advance the throttle. If the wheels are aligned correctly it will do fine. If you have a habit of banging the throttle from idle to full the Cub will ground loop every time.

full up to start... let it get to rolling and slowly release the back-stick. The tail comes off the ground about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle (lower if overpowered) the plane should rise with no use of elevator by the time you are at 3/4 throttle (1/2 or 1/3 if you are REALLY overpowered) Touch up elevator... and watch it go up in a scale manner.

****

Piper Cubs are one of the best trainers... you can't beat it for FORCING the student to learn to fly correctly. You don't use rudder to coordinate the turn... the turn just plane looks bad. You don't learn proper throttle management... you ground loop like heck. If you want to head for warbirds such as a P-51... start learning on a Cub.

Cubs are EASY compared to this thing. (my "avitar" picture) If I slapped the throttle forward with this triplane... I'd spread it all over the runway. Cubs just exchange nose and tail... then try to go the other direction. (repeat untill you let off power)

Thanks FHHuber

Nilo

just finished glueing my wings for my graupner piper j3 and its going to be powered with a Saito fa56 mounted inverted. IF i can reverse the Throttle assembly to accomidate the exsisting pushrod ....unless there is a product out there to attach to the firewall hummm..... anyway lookin as closely as thease old eyes can Im not sure i can make this modification and Manuel does not address this ..... any ideas Guys?

I don't use a tach. My OS four stroke has a simple two fuel tank run in procedure. No RPM limits and no tach required. I am not suggesting that you do this but after running one tank it was so sweet I flew it (with a rich needle setting!)

It is now on about 10 flights and purrs!

The reason for using a tach with a four stroke is they are very difficult to tune correctly by sound alone. You may think you have it running as good as it can be but then you put the tach to it and find it isn't just right.

You are correct as far as OS 4 strokes go. These engines run well right out of the box with virtually no adjusting required. However, you do need to excercise some care; OS specifies a range of prop sizes for their engines but does not suggest a specific break in prop. I broke my FS70 in with an APC 12x7 (and no tach) but I only used full throttle briefly on the ground to ensure that I didn't over rev the engine. When I switched to an APC 11x6 4-blade I was surprised to see that it was running at over 11,000rpm!

The break in method for a Saito engine is not so straight forward, but at least they specify a break in prop.

Bottom line is: If you think you can accurately judge the RPM of a 4 stroke engine by its sound and tell whether it's running at around 10,500rpm at full throttle; then you can tune your engine and experiment with props without fear of over revving or over loading your engine.

I don't know what the method of break in is suggested in your manual. Mine method uses full throttle for the whole break in period and turning the needle in and out to keep the engine cool. It's a bit tedious which is why I flew it (rich and only used full throttle for take off).

What is wrong with RPM above 11,000? OS 70 spec RPM is up to 12,000. They have not specified a max running in RPM so I would be happy to go up to this if following their break in procedure.

I just like stuff that's different, and the RCV is too cool NOT to have. I plan on getting one myself.

siclick33,
My manual will be the same as yours. I also found the 'heat cycling' brek-in method a pain, so after twidling with it for most of a tankful I just refuelled and flew on a rich setting. Th eplane was a bit sluggish on the first flight, but after leaning it out a bit for the second flight the plane took off like a rocket .

Great Planes support (Bax on here) will tell you that the OS engines are at their best around 9,500 - 10,000 rpm. Bear in mind that on the ground the prop is acting like a fan and that it will 'unload' in the air increasing the rpm. Allowing the engine to go over 11000rpm on the ground may cause it to go over its maximum rpm in the air...

SST,
As far as the RCV 58 goes, yup they are 'cool' and different and as far as rotary 4 strokes go, I'm sure it would be lighter and more powerful than the old Webra T4-60 I have laying around. As with everything, its a matter of choosing the right engine for the job. If you need an engine with a low profile to fit in a small cowl then it's probably ideal. The 58CD is 3ozs heavier than the Saito 56 and around the same weight as the Saito 72, so you might be losing out a bit in the power/weight ratio though..
A while ago, I looked into the SP series for a Spitfire. I liked the idea of being able to run something close to a scale prop. Unfortunately, the holes you'd need to cut for cooling looked just as unsightly as the cutouts you'd need for a conventional engine, so there was no real advantage. These engine would be ideal for a plane with a large front opening like a Tempest or a redial like a Corsair...