Hate to say it, but this is worse advice than the other. I strongly dissagree with your logic.

Different strokes for different folks. Anyone can learn on any of the 3 choices give, but I think ARFs teach people the least affectively of any of them.

Do it any way you want, but don't come on so strong. All 3 are doable, but many people would agree that ARF is not the best way to start.

I agree 100%. You must be a fooggie too.

*visits dictionary.com*

Thank you Tattoo. Well written and nicely objective.

I totally disagree with this thought. I have seen too many guys show up with an Alpha and are totally clueless how things work, it was all done for them. My first was a Seniorita, and yes I loved it, still do, still in one piece. I was soloing after just two weekends and advancing to low wing sports models in 6 weeks.

Why? You don't need to know how to build to Fly? Thats hogwash. I hear that spouted over and over again in this thread and in this forum and at the field. and I know lots of people flying that can't build.

ARF's are very effective....and they popularity speaks for it...if they were not effective, they would not be popular...that is how capitalism works.

I agree that you don't know how to be able to build to fly. Read my post above again as to why I think people should build their first trainer. Do you think that a person should finally start trying to build when they need their precision aerobat or scale masterpiece?

Why not learn when it's not critical and then when it is they'll have the skills. That's my point. If all they were ever going to fly is a trainer, then an ARF is fine. But most people want to progress. As popular as ARF's are, they do not fill the needs or desires of everyone.

A gum-napper, winkle-wart....a codger, a cafeenman, old fart, someone set in their ways....

Well, unfortunately for him, not too old a fooggie. He is going to have to listen to me for many many years.

A guy from my club showed up at my place with an ARF helicopter one day. The only thing he had to do was attach the tail boom. He put it on sideways and didn't even know there was a problem. He had no yaw control, but lots of pitch.

This same guy has gone through every ARF on the market and still can't fly a rectangular circuit. He's used just about every crutch made too (auto-pilots). He has no clue how an airplane works and hasn't gotten anywhere in the almost THREE years that he has been trying to learn.

Some people just aren't meant for this hobby.

Somethin tells me this one needs a diaper change. How bout taking the attitude somewhere else. We don't need it here.

I agree with Tattoo......build, buy or give birth to what ever your preference is......but...get a good instructor and have fun....THAT is what is all about no matter what you throw into the air and.... do it safely!!! my.02

I see. So you still resort to personal attacks when people don't agree with you. *shakes head*

I would venture to say that I have involved myself in a lot more variety as a model builder than you could even imagine. What I have done is nearly perfected my technique through trying just about everything over many years. Nothing is set. I'm always learning and I know a thing or two.

So far you aren't getting a lot of agreement on your views. In your eyes, I guess that makes everyone else wrong?

I gave him a shampoo suggestion earlier. I can see this thread is going to die an early death. I think there is enough info here for the original poster to come to his own conclusions at this point.

Let me recap...

1) Some people like SPADs better than balsa.
2) Some people like balsa better than SPADs.
3) Some people don't care one way or the other.
4) Everything has advantages and disadvantages.
5) Some people look really ridiculous when they try to insult people but can't spell two-syllable words.
6) Having an instructor and a good trainer is important.
7) What the plane is made out of isn't important (as long as it is a good trainer).

Caffeen, pretty much sums it up!

For what its worth.... CafeenMan... You dont know how glad that I am that i built my first Trainer from a kit...I learned so much. I was even able to help those guys at the field do repairs on there ARF's because they had no clue.

I have to agree if you build your first trainer you are way ahead in the game.

Gentlemen...

When are you going to see that arguing this point is like arguing religion?

What you are arguing are your opinions. And in each man's mind, HIS opinion is ALWAYS correct.

Let's look at the facts:

Spads are cheap, and durable - Balsa is more aesthetically pleasing, and once you get into high performance planes, balsa will be more aerodynamic.

So there are several ways to go...

First Plane:

You can start with a SPAD trainer, and not have to worry about breaking it (or "falling in love" with it).
Or, you can start with a Balsa trainer, and learn valuable building skills that you will use later, on more advanced planes.

Second plane:

You could build a SPAD while you are learning to do basic aerobatics and getting lots of solo stick time without fear of damaging your "baby"
Or you can fly your "baby" and risk destroying it. (Note: THIS is where I recommend having a durable plane, not the beginner stage... BUT this is only MY opinion)

Third plane:

At this point, I like to see someone flying Balsa planes, (Kit or ARF) for one simple reason... There is a certain type of personality out there, You know the type, it's the kid who says, "You fly RC Planes? That's cool! I'd like to take one and fly it into my school!" or, "It would be cool to blow one up in mid-air!" We have all met that kid right?

Well, That kid worries me. Fortunately, he, and others like him are discouraged from doing such things because they don't want to ruin all of their hard work. Once they reach adulthood, they (Hopefully ) have more respect for the property of others.

But they are still irresponsible. (Note: I am not referring to Combat Fliers, who, follow the rules, use the proper precautions, and use good judgment when flying)

I have no gripe about someone who flys SPADs because they don't have a lot of money to spend on their hobby.

I have no gripe about someone who flys SPADs because they actually LIKE them.

My concern is the guy (And I have SEEN them) who fly SPADs because they just don't care about learning to be a good flier (or a good ANYTHING for that matter). They just want instant gratification without the responsibilities that come with it (No Club, No AMA, etc).

This is why I recommend using SPADs as a learning tool IF NEEDED, or as a way of keeping the sport within your budget. (or even just having the occaisional SPAD just for fun)

But this sport is DANGEROUS, and while you can argue that you don't have to "Worry" about crashing a SPAD, I think BALSA helps to emphasize that you ALWAYS HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT CRASHING AN AIRPLANE!!!

Right now there are two people who I'm helping build their models via e-mail. They send me pictures and questions and I send them back answers. So far they have both gotten frustrated at times, but both their planes look good and they're enjoying it. One is a telemaster and the other is a Kadet MK II.

lol...poor MinnFlyer..

Is there a part of the forum just for arguing. Because I have a lot of stress here at work....and I'm not allowed to hit anyone here, or even say bad things or they put me in jail.

I disagree with your prejudice judgment that a certain class of flyer (ones that fly spads) ... because they don't have a lot of money to spend on their hobby.

I also disagree with your prejudice judgement that a certain class of flyer (ones that fly spads) ... just want instant gratification without the responsibilities that come with it (No Club, No AMA, etc).

There are dangerous people, cheap people, poor people, etc....and they fly spads as well as balsa. On the religion part, I agree....the only way to become a spadder is to fly one.

Cafeen, I recently built my brother-in-law a Seniorita and he has learned very quickly, however, I regret it. If he does something stupid and has a near miss he says " You almost had to fix my plane". I wish he would have built it himself so he would know how to fix it if nescessary.

Hey cafeen could you help me get this pain in the ass sweetator done too.
I swear I'm gonna be workin on it till I'M an old foogie.

By the way anyone. If I build a plane out of all my empty beer cans. What would we call it and would it be asthetically pleasing to the eye?

Keep this goin till I have more time later tonight to add some words of wisdom here...
(be back around 10:00)

There's something to be said for real builder/flyer teams. My best friend who is also one of the best pilots I have ever known has never built a plane ever. His dad builds all his.

My problem is that I'm a terrible pilot but an excellent builder. The rule of the universe is that the longer it takes CafeenMan to build it, the faster he'll crash it doing something stupid. Hasn't stopped me from building though. I could use a good pilot though so I can see my planes fly as well as they should.

Wots a "sweetator?" ???

LOL

I knew that was the case. CafeenMan, get yourself a SPAD, and you'll find yourself shortly becoming an excellent pilot and an excellent bulder. I've done enough building for this lifetime.... My SPAD has improved my flying by well over 100%. I've been able to improve my flying in 2 months what use to take 2 years. Flatspins, upside flatspins are now simple and the confidence is transferable back over to the balsa.

Leaning about new things and waking your eyes up to new possibilities, try it...you just might be surprised.

Bring em on! I'll put them through the wringer!