My trainer is almost finished and now I'm getting ready to build another plane. I'm looking for an acrobatic plane for a .46FX. I know that isn't much info but it's what I have. So on to the list:

GP Extra 300
GP Cap 232
GP Ultra Sport 40
GP Super Sportster MKII
Sig SE

I'm looking more for an acrobat than a speedster if that helps. I'm also open to other ideas. It's hard to differentiate these airplanes besides that the build of the SE should be easier. If you know what some of the differences are let me know! I"m suspecting that a lot of new flyers will be interested in this post so don't hold out!

I just made this decision recently and posed the same question while making my decision. From your list, the Extra and the Cap are considered too advanced for a second plane with the Ultra Sport a bit more forgiving but still pretty advanced in comparison to some of the others. Your best choices would probably be the Super Sportster or the SE. The SE can be especially wild if the control throws are set to the extremes but if they are kept tame it can be very forgiving. I considered the SE myself but I ended up going with a .60 size plane.

First of all ARF or kit?

Kits:
Scale:
GP .40 F4U Corsair
GP .40 P-51D
Sport:
TF .40 Nobler

ARF:
Scale:
GP .40 Cessna 182
GP .40 P-51D
Kyosho .40 P-51D
Kyosho .40 F4U Corsair

Kit for sure. I like to build!

I am not much of a sport liker because I like scale better but I would get the Nobler. Optional Flaps and Retracts. I have heard it is a challenging second plane and the flaps or recommend for its higher stall speed, for better landings. They recommend having it as a second mid wing. I have not flown it so I am not sure. You could always get an instructer to help you the first flight. If it were me, I would gthe nobler and invest in a bigger engine later for a TF Corsair, spit, or 182.

I would build the Super Sportster .60 size. I had the .40 ARF and it is one of the planes I miss the most. Granted, I have not flown or seen a SE, but my sportster 40 kicked butt, and I know that a 60 will do even better. I don't even like building and I am thinking about trying the 60 sportster.

So far a lot of good recomendations! Just so you all know I"m not planning on flying my second plane until I've flown the heck out of my trainer. I just want to be building something so I'm almost leaning toward a harder to build plane than something like the SE. I have a .46FX so that is why I'm limiting myself to a .40 size plane. Keep the information coming!

IMHO a scale anything is too much for a second plane, but then I'm a coward. Retracts would be too much to remember, and too unyielding on a hard, bouncy landing. Engines enclosed in cowlings are also much more difficult to tune and adjust - something you'll still want to be learning and experimenting with on a second plane. Personally, I feel they're a pain to fuel and adjust, too- but that's just me. I'd put the Super Sportster over the Ultra Sport as your #2 for this reason.

Never flown anything on your list, but several club members have Sig Somethin Extras and, as noted before, with low throws they are good flying planes that you can grow into. They are a bit of a handful in windy conditions. The Super Sportsters do nicely, too. Be warned that the SE's jump into the air - and can allow you to develop bad habits which will haunt you if you do go to a larger & heavier tail dragger that needs a longer run-out for takeoff.

My second build - a Contender 60 - is still available and is a very enjoyable sport plane (I added 40% more rudder area, but it is still barely adequate for knife edge). The OS 70II w/13x8 prop gives it plenty of pull. You won't be doing 3-D on par with the Sporsters & Ultra Sports, but is is a good choice for sport pattern learning. Maybe I should say I CAN'T do 3-D as well as the Ultra Sports. Put it on a computer radio like the 9C and you can play with the apron flap and ailerons to do CROW and short field landings. But it would be a snoozer with your .46 engine limitation.

Fie on the industry for no longer kitting an Ugly Stik style airplane. I also wish Kangke would offer the SK-50 as a kit. I'm very happy with mine, but it's hard to personalize (aka "kit bash") an ARF. It revels with a TT .46.

Two words...

BULL - $#it

There has not been a single good recommendation yet for a second plane!

Now, I will admit that a LOT of people have been "Skipping" the traditional second plane, BUT a lot of people should not skip this step!!!!

A GOOD second plane would be something like a GP Easy Sport, or anyof the "Stik" type planes. It should have a high, or shoulder wing (preferably rubber-banded) and a semi-symmetrical airfoil.

With that said, should you decide to SKIP THIS VERY IMPORTANT STEP IN YOUR TRAINING, then look into a Sig 4*40 or a Great Planes Rapture, or a Goldberg Tiger II

ALL of the planes listed so far are ADVANCED planes, and while there have been a few people who have successfully flown them as a second plane, there have been MANY MORE that have taken their beautiful plane home in pieces within the first week or two of flying them!

I agree with Minn. Why not a SIG MidStar or 4*40. An Easy Sport would be a good choice too! I just finished my Midstar and is it a complete joy to fly. Very easy transition from trainer to it. Lands real slow too!

I second the Tiger II mentioned above. It will do all the acrobatics that you want and it will help you build your confidence for landing. Nothing lands as smooth time after time as a Tiger II.

i had a tower hobbies kaos as a second plane and i liked it very much still flew very tame, and i flew the crap aout of it. i built it alittle bulky but it still flew ok. never had to make any big repairs on it.

While I agree with minnflyers advice

I think it is going to be difficult to predict what your second plane should be before you've finished building much less flying the first!!! Who knows your "second" plane might be another trainer

I would hold off building another plane unitll you have some type of clue of how quickly you will aquire your flying skills.. Although the mid-stars and easy sports are good choice for a second plane (had an easy sport) .

Either the Tiger 2 or the Super Sportster. Both are excellent second airplanes.

I agree with MinnFlyer as well. The planes you have listed are more advanced than a second plane. I have a SuperSportster 60 and it is a fantastic plane, but a little more advanced than I think appropriate for most for a second plane. The sig four star is a much better second plane than the Super Sportster.

I appreciate all the advice! I'm thinking I'll avoid some of the "hotter" planes for sure. The thing I don't like about most of the intermediate planes is the nose of the plane. They all seem to have nose cheeks. I'm kinda leaning toward a 4-40 taking everyones advice into account. It's about $30 less than the Tiger and looks about the same. The mid star could look really cool if I modded the nose to be tapered. I ,eh hem, seriously doubt my next plane will be another trainer. I'm going to buddy box and I'm flying a sim. I've flown a little in the past and almost made it to learning to fly with a GP? ,something equivalent to a GP Easy Sport with a fully symetrical wing, then I had to move where there wasn't a club. It didn't last long after that.

I'm not in a rush yet. Have a few weeks to decide. Take a look at the mods this guy did on his 4-40. Sig should sell a nose kit for this plane and ditch the bubble canopy. Check this out:

http://www.renderwurx.com/rc/sig4star/

I could never design a covering scheme like that either. Impressive!

going with the 4 * is a good choice. Also, it would be easy to clean up the nose of the 4* to look something like the Super Sportster.

I know people have cut off the "cheeks" on the Midstars and 4*'s and put cowls on them. They look sweet. Reason I didn't was because I couldn't wait anymore to fly it. 4 Months was long enough!!

By the way if it is any consolation, I started my third plane last night-----A 4*60. Get my drift!!!!

Ace's Cloud Dancer with a .46 engine [8D]

Well, yeah. Isn't that the way it's been done for several generations now? When was the last time you heard someone at a Ford dealer asking for a good second car now that they'd mastered an Escort? And we get inside them.

Pity the local hobby shop if no one ever needed to raplace that all-important burn-your-fingers, break-your-heart second plane.

I really don't see a problem with either the GP Ultrasport or the Sig SE as a second plane if the pilot has mastered thier trainer and they have an experienced pilot spotting for them the first several flights. If one really can fly their trainer well, they will be bored quickly with a traditional second plane. I actually had a GP-Ultrasport as my second plane and have no regrets, in fact I firmly believe it was the right decision for me.

I know many that have successfully used Sig SE's and Lanier Stingers as second planes. With proper instruction, many pilots are capable of moving from a trainer to solo flying these planes. The nice thing about these planes is that they are more honest in flight than a traditional second plane and they present a better platform for learning advance flight.

I agree, depending on the individual, and the definition of "Mastered"

Again, I agree, but this is another area where MANY people will "cut the cord" too soon.

It may be the right desision for many... It can also be the wrong desision for many others.

And many are not

The bad thing about them is that they are faster than an intermedaite trainer, and much less forgiving if you get in trouble.


I'm not saying you're wrong John, in fact, everything you said is absolutely correct. I'm just playing "Devil's Advocate". While everything you say is true, there are a lot of "If's" and "Many's". I'm just filling in the "between the lines" for those who are not aware of them.

one other comment, not everyone progresses at the same level. someone saying these planes are too much for a second plane is saying they are too much for THEIR second plane, but it might be fine for someone else. Personally, I had a Sig SE as a second plane, an avistar as a first glow, and completely self taught. I had never even seen another rc plane fly until several months after starting... How many planes have I crashed due to pilot error? ZERO. (avistar went down due to wing failure, should have glassed the center but it wasn't called for, so technically not pilot error... [8D])

Im going with a 4 Star 40 as my second plane and then a Venture 60 as my third. Either one of these would make a great second plane. but I am building and I have special building plans for the Venture 60. I have to get a good grip on that trainer first!

Maybe later a Sig SE as the forth.

Minn... Hey... I thought I was playing the part of "Devil's Advocate" in this thread. I don't disagree with you one bit and thank you for amplifying on my "ifs" and "buts" as you put it. I just wanted to point out that a traditional second plane is not always required or best for every pilot. In general, pilots that are quick studys can skip the traditional second plane. This means that most pilots should look at a traditional second plane, but it isn't uncommon for pilots to successfully fly a hotter second plane.

Yes, the problem with a hotter second plane is that you would go cold turkey from a highly stable plane (like a trainer) to a plane that is very neutral, like a GP Ultrasport, Sig SE, etc. I can see were some pilots would get into trouble quickly. This is why even the quick learner needs an experienced pilot spotting for the first several flights. Unfortunately, neutral stability is what makes planes more aerobatic and honest to control inputs... kinda a doubled edged sword I suppose.

Cheers.