first flight with instructor - $0
second flight with instructor - $0
a month of flights with instructor - $0
a summer of soloing while hanging out with guys in club - $0
gaining new friends and having a knowledge base to refer to - priceless.

I would hardly call cutting your fingers on a running engine part of a steep learning curve. Not to be a jerk, but I will be for a second, had you been with someone with any level of knowledge on these first few flights, your cost would have been nothing, your fingers would still be intact, and you would have made new friends. To say this is frightening..had you run your plane into someone while learning, would that simply have been part of the steep learning curve? Or running the plane into someones house?

To say that learning to fly on your own is indicitive of someone who "thinks outside the box" and those that tend to lean toward the logical and flying with an instructor as inside the box thinkers is truly offensive.

This is the most irresponsible thing Ive read on these boards. Theres a big difference between experimentation and learning. You experiment once you understand the concepts. Theres also a big difference between being responsible and being selfish. Thinking that you can just throttle up and go is absolutely the most selfish thing I hear in this hobby. Some flyers have done it, congrats, and you are lucky you didnt hurt someone else in the process. Say you are out being "couragous" and run your plane into my son. I guarentee you Im not buying your argument.

jwalsh1, your wasting your breath. They won't get it. See, they will keep trying to re-invent the wheel and fail, where as people like rutan learn all he can about the wheel that we have, and then make variations of it that are way more impressive.

Man, fine grade sand runway. Those engines are going to be short lived.

Agreed.

Heres why I get so ticked about this. This hobby is on the brinks. We can either be SAFE and LOGICAL, or we can have a go it alone attitude, hurt someone, and lose the privilage to fly.

We all make this bed, and frankly Ill be p*(ed is you ruin it for me because Im doing all I can to keep it alive.

There it is! The old,"you could have killed someone" arguement. These guys are talking about flying out in farmland and are nowhere near you and your son. I think if someone wants to learn on their own and "experiment" out in the middle of nowhere than good for them. If they slice up their fingers in the learning process so what, it's a free country and we shouldn't try and protect everyone from everything they choose to do.

I really like Rwfly's story and it is one of the more heart warming things I have read on these boards. What a contrast to the anal retentive hogwash just posted.

BB,

Whatcha doing in this forum lost or soomething

No Crash, I was just thinking of trying to teach myself to fly untill I came here and found out how dangerous it could be.

BB,

You know you could poke your eye out....

Sorry for not having the made for tv sob story that makes everyone feel oh so good. Funny how sympathy suddenly trumps common sense. Four hunderd other posts about the same topic and everyone is on the same page about how its eaiser and safer to fly with an instructor. Some guy had an extra challenge getting there and all the sudden its ok? Hey, thats great that he learned to fly on his own but the ends and the circumstances certainly dont justify the means.

Not once did I mention killing someone. Our club field was lost due to an incident exactly similar to that described above. Surely you can understand my anger about that.

Free country, sure, just dont screw it up for the rest of us, thats all. The second something gets damaged or someone "loses and eye", thats the second another field is lost. If you think this is a fallacy you arent paying attention to the times.

Loosing your field due to someone else's actions would piss me off also but you can't carry that emotion over to another discussion and think it's completely valid. These guys are flying out on farm land where I assume there's a very low risk of hitting something and not out at your club field.

You did mention that they should be glad that nobody got hurt and that is basically the "thank god nobody got killed" justification that people always use on the boards to emphasize their point. People hardly ever get hurt in this hobby due to getting hit by a plane the statistics don't warrant the use of the arguement in my opinion.

As for the "feel good story", I wasn't using it as justification for my position and only commenting on the contrast to your black and white view of how the hobby should be pursued. I think that the best way to learn is with a competant instructor and a 40 sized glow plane but if some guy out in Bumfrick, Idaho wants to go it alone and isn't near any populated areas I say do it. I would only hope that they have a video camera to share the results with the rest of us.

I appreciate your response. I understand your point. I didnt mean to get all out of hand, you are right, I shouldnt let the actions of some (or one in my case I guess) cloud my judgement.

Ok, carry on. Ill shut my pie hole now.

I should also apologize as I shouldnt have used the person above as an example even though I did, so, again, sorry.

[and you are lucky you didnt(sic) hurt someone else in the process. Say you are out being "couragous"(sic) and run your plane into my son. I guarentee (sic)you Im(sic) not buying your ...]

Lucky? How about using reasonable precautions and rational safety measures. Why do you assume all self-taught fliers pose a hazzard to others?

i'm greatful i didn't have learn how to fly on my own.

i'm also greatful that damn 10lb flying contraction didn't take my head off.
i hate flying on sundays okay...no dirt ,crap, and wind into the pit
area....but i don't like spining props pionted at me.[sm=idea.gif]
them dudes have decades of experience so...***?

i sumtimes wonder if there's somebody 2 miles away flying
in a farm field. i cross me fingers , he's not using the same channle
that i am. we need to find that dude and ask him to join.

What dude? - have you seen him?, - has he shot you down? - where is he? - does he exist? - what if? - stop worrying and just fly the thing I say!
Save your worries for the drive home on those dangerous roads!