You realise of course I was joking when I said about taking off with the eyes shut!

However the gunning with full elevator ( or a little less as the situation dictated) and plenty of right rudder ( again as the situation dictated), did work, and the reason was to get off the rough grassy field ASAP before I crashed!

As soon as I became airborne I reduced the elevator somewhat in order to get a shallow climb to gain some flying speed and avert a tip stall.

I learnt all this myself (with some help from a friend), from crashing quite a few times.
( my Spacewalker is a home brewed foamie and very resilient), so I wasn't nervous about crashing it.

It's not in the book of course and I don't recommend that everyone try it. - I tend to be a bit of an old radical, but you have to explore these things and take your chances. - Stressing however that you do it where you are not going to hurt anyone or damage anything!

BTW, I used the good old OS FP40 motor which in my opinion is unbeatable as a beginners engine.

Definitely.

The joke about it being how to make things go splat was intended to carry it forward... not make you think I thought it was a serious post. (and point out that it would be a good way to make toothpicks for anyone that did think it was serious.)

And a little negative camber...

I have the Seagul version. I can tell you it is much calmer to fly than my four star. It is easy to take off, easier to fly and easier to land than my four star.

Seriously, there is a big difference. I had the four star first. The box for the space walker said for intermediate to advanced pilot. I am far from advanced, probably could consider me on the low side of intermediate. It is a breeze to fly. I was pleasantly surprised.

I've flown my 4*60 three times now (it is a tail dragger) and let me suggest that you DON'T do what I did. I knew I was supposed to put in up elevator while taxiing, but I got past the taxiing speed very quickly (even though I thought I was advancing the throttle slowly). As a result, the plane leaped straight into the air at a nearly vertical climb and nearly stalled. Fortunately, I was able to firewall the throttle and push the stick forward some to level it out a bit. Whew! That was a close one (my second 4*60 flight).

The very first time I had it at the field, I ground looped it a number of times. Since then, I've retrofitted it with a Sullivan Products tail-wheel which seemed to help some. I like the ideas mentioned in this thread about reducing the sensitivity of the rudder, making sure there is some toe in and some negative camber. The landing gear on the 4*60 is already toed in, but I will check it for some negative camber. I think it's just a matter of practice. My second take off was uneventful (thankfully).

If you have the room the best way for a beginner is to not worry about the rudder at all. If the plane tracks to the right when you give it throttle then start at the left most corner of the field. i don't like to advance the throttle slowly just give it 3\4 to full throttle let the plane track where it wants to go an in no time at all it will be air born and your flying. A little toe in on the wheels helps but just a little. To much and it takes away alot of power. After you have a few takeoffs under your belt you can start to add a little rudder to straighten things out. The main thing is you have to commit to the take off.
One other very inportant thing make sure its NOT HEADING TOWARDS ANYBODY if it is or you are not confortable with the takeoff for any reason just pull the throttle back right away and start over again. I hope this helps. It has for my students. Good luck. And like the saying goes.Just do it.

I respectfully disagree. The plane is going to weathervane if you give no rudder input, you never want to let a plane just go where ever it goes. That can equal a crash or worse. Taking off with rudder is very basic and is probably one of the easiest skills to learn. The trick is going from a plane with tricycle landing gear that requires almost no rudder input, then to a plane with a long tail moment that isnt prone to dart or tailspin and then to a short moment like a biplane or funfly. Point is a pilot should be in control of his plane at all times and never let nature take its course.

Respectfully,
Mike

The plane will do the same thing every time. How many take off have you made and used the same amount of rudder. If you didn't use the rudder the plane would go in the same direction almost every time. All I'm saying is if the man is having a tough time learning to use the rudder
there are ways to do it without the rudder input by using the full runway. Most of the crashes with beginners using taildraggers is because they keep the rudder input on after they take off and fly into the ground and don't realize until after the fact that the rudder is pushed all the way over. I've been flying for 28 years and have instructed a lot of pilots. And yes I agree with you the plane must be under control of the pilot at all times. If you know that when you give throttle the plane is going to go to the right and you add a little elevator it will take off I would say it is under control.

I see your point air mail and it makes sense. It will definitely work as you described. I guess I would have to say that if a guy is struggling with controlled takeoffs, then he probably needs to go back on the box until he figures that aspect out.. [8D]

Thanks BigNed. The reason I know that it works I used to fly a little 3 channel ship. No rudder and it was the only way you could take off. And it was a tail dragger.

When you say that using the rudder is one of the easiest skills its only easy if you know how.
Most people are right handed. And using there left hand is like pulling teeth. And I'm sure you know how fast your reaction with you left hand has to be when taking off sometimes. It just takes some people a little longer to aquire that skill. And once they see that the plane will take off without the rudder input it seems to help them relax a little. I'm left handed so the rudder was very natural to me. But if your not your reaction time is slow and on take offs you don't want to be slow releasing the rudder.

I do also agree with you about Tricycle gear being better for beginners.

Quote:
I'm left handed so the rudder was very natural to me. But if your not your reaction time is slow and on take offs you don't want to be slow releasing the rudder.
I do also agree with you about Tricycle gear being better for beginners.



I agree that the tricycle is better for beginners, but so is the automatic car rather than a manual.
Taildraggers are more fun and a bit of a challenge ( it's great trying to perfect a 3 point landing, just touching down as it stalls).
If you learn in an automatic car you almost certainly will never be able or willing to handle the stickshift and clutch, and so it is with tricycle and taildragger.
Point is if you learn first on the manual car, or you learn to fly on a taildragger, you'll be able to handle the alternatives no sweat, - but not vice versa, and so you could miss out in some major enjoyment!
Surely the enjoyment and challenge is what the sport is all about, not having everything laid out and made easy for us.

how many trainers are tail draggers?

My only issue with the automatic/manual philosophy is that when you train anyone on anything you want to setup training so that if possible the trainee never fails. Sucess breeds confidence breeds success and so on and so forth....
I just think that training should be fun and if the trainee is unnecessarily fighting the airplane they may get discouraged. In a stick shift car if you screw up the car jumps around for a few feet and dies. In model airplanes if you screw up on takeoff you very well may destroy or severly damage your pride and joy.

PS,,, Im left handed too, never really thought about why it seemed easier to me. [8D][8D]

Big Ned
That's true,
But we do need a challenge, and as I'm always raving about, use a good, inexpensive, basic, resilient " no frills trainer" and then there's "no worries" about crashing. ( I won't describe it again, I'm fed up trying to get that message across in other threads!) ).

Wings
Not many! - How about we start a campain to make it mandatory to learn on a taildragger! Well we just love rules, don't we? ( that's another hobby horse of mine, but I won't start!)

Touche!

One more for the road,
- failure often breeds success!

It all comes down to how bad you want to learn and how determined you are.

If you can afford to keep buying planes I guess!

Actully I like tailer draggers better. Seems as if every other time I landed my LT 40 I would have to restraighten the front wheel. Boy did that get old.

I don't think I have seen it mentioned yet, but make sure the tail wheel is lined up with the rudder and both are set center line of the fuse. Its funny to watch someone with a tail wheel twisted about 25 degrees try and take off, at least its funny till they roll in the pits.

BTW, to reduce the throw if you don't have a computer radio move the clevis at the rudder further out and/or move the clevis at the servo further in.

Ed M.

hello everyone, sorry i haven't gotten back to the postings. i set it up and then tried to find it and couldn't and happened to click on beginner somewhere and found it. thank you all for the input. as i have tried most of the suggestions, i have yet to go out and give it all another go. that will be friday. i haven't tried the exponential setting yet, i knew what it did, but i didn't understand how to set it up on my radio and exactly what the percentages meant until i got the rundown from a heli friend the other day. will be trying that in a day or two. i especially liked the righty-lefty thing. i too am a lefty and for some reason the rudder bit isn't my bag. i can fly great when i manage to get off the ground doing coordinated turns and all and even steer with it alone and kick it around on final approach and 3-point it nicely. and i did learn how to drive with a stick shift. the tail dragger is my first trainer and i really don't like the tricycle gear either. hopefully the expo will do me good. i was also thinking that there is no offset for the thrust factor like the 2* right thrust. would shimming the engine mount a little make a big difference?

RC PLANES
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there you will find a list of people who are onlineI
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I'm not an ace pilot on the sticks but I have learned alot about tail draggers. Not all tail draggers are alike, some have short tail moments and others long. Landing gear placement and height are not the same. Other factors come into play and they all relate to the handling characteristics.
When you first attempt to takeoff stand behind the aircraft with it pointed into the prevailing wind direction. Have someone hold the plane and run it up to full throttle. Upon release and at full throttle the airplane should track straight ahead and when you feel sufficient airspeed is obtained gently feed in a small amount of elevator. Once airborne release some up elevator and allow the plane to increase in airspeed. Once this is done gently increase the up elevator and allow the aircraft to make a gradual climbout.
You have not attempted to use the rudder for takeoff and this is how it should be until you learn to use rudder commands. Since you don't no how to use rudder the only place to learn is in the air at a safe altitude. If you have a trainer type aircraft it should fly just fine on rudder and elevator commands.
I had the same problems you are experiencing and overcame them by becoming profficient in rudder management. Set your trainer up so that it fly straight and level at half or three quaters throttle. Your left hand will control the rudder and your right hand the elevator. Do not use the airlerons, unless absolutely necessary. Make all your turns shallow and regain lost altitude with the throttle rembering to throttle back once you have your desired training altitude. It took me at least two hours of flight time until I felt comfortable doing this. Since teaching myself the use of rudder I can now takeoff a taildragger under much improved authority.

I think I see why it may be difficult for some to get used to the rudder, it may depend on which control mode you use.
Down here most people have the elevator and rudder on the left stick, and the ailerons and throttle on the right stick, and perhaps it is easier to use the rudder along with the elevator on the same hand. - (just a thought, not an argument for or against, you understand!) and in particular when you take off on a taildragger.

I'm told that most people in the US use the other mode ( I forget which is which), but I'm sure that one is as good as the other, each having it's pluses and minuses.
Bet it would be hard to change once you get established on one particular mode!

I'm also learning with a tail dragger - a small .25-.30 size EPP model into which I've shoe-horned a .40! Hence, this has made it even trickier...

I've managed three take-offs in total, but each one has been preceeded by several ground loops, requiring at least a reset, if not a restart! The funny thing is that initially this thing wants to pull to the right, and only once it's up to speed does it then pull left (I think).

The wheels wobble quite a bit on the piano wire undercarriage, so I'm not sure whether it's got toe-in or out - probably a bit of both The runway is very rough too.

My instructor's suggestion was also to start with some power - about 2/3 throttle, and that has helped. I guess it's just practice.

Yes you're probably right, all that it really boils down to in the end is practice!
After a while your mind is able to compensate for all the little problems associated with your aircraft, - that's what I found.