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Old 05-31-2004 | 09:48 PM
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EAP
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Default Help! engine problem?

Hello,

I have a hanger 9 alpha trainer with the evolution engine and it was flown a few times last year during my instructions, then I had to move to texas and I stored it for 6 months, I put marvel mystery oil in it the porotect the engine. I just got it back out and fueled it up and Fired it up it will run fine at high rpms but will not idle or even mid range, just starts spittting and dies[:@]....... but if I leave the glow plug on it purs like a kitten, Idled fine and was snappy with the throttle, but once I removed the glow plug, bla.....bla.......blaaaaa..........dead. the only way to keep it running without the plug was to throttle it way up?????? What is the deal. I put a new plug in it less than 2 flights ago, I pulled the plug and test to see if it would glow seemed fine.

Any advise would be great! I would like to hook up with an instructor to get back in the air but I can't start with a wounded bird....

thanks Michael!
Old 05-31-2004 | 11:21 PM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

okay, first of all, what kind of plug do you have in it? i would reccomend an os #8 for your evolution and most other 2 strokes. it really seems to be the plug, but it could also be that your low end is amazingly rich. it is hard to say. you said you put a new plug in less than two flights ago. if you can get a picture of the bottom of your glow plug as it is now, (coil facing the camera) i may be able to tell you your problem. resolution in the picture is first priority. size comes later. also, along with the picture, could you tell me what fuel you are using? i need to know the nitro content and the oil content along with the make.
Old 06-01-2004 | 01:51 AM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

Sounds like its running to lean/rich.............................

Just close the needle vaulve and reset it to the starting point which is normally stated in the instructions for the engine....... as with most 2 strokes its 2 and a half turns then try startin the plane again..... once its running , let it warm up then remove the glow starter then slowly adjust the needle vaulve (very smally adjustments and wait a few seconds inbetween adjustments and listen for an increase of rpm's).. once it reaches full rpm's ie : the highest pitch sound, then just click it back one click and it should be fine............
Im sure you will get lots of other great advice here....

Good Luck

This below quote was by Montaque Posted here before - Great Advice Helped me understand and Learn maybe it will help you....... thx Montaque was a great explanation

Ok, so how to tune an engine. Setting the needle is done with a combination of tests. First, the needle is usually backed out a little, richening the mixture a tad (half turn max, maybe less), and the engine is started. (if the weather hasn't changed much since the last run, I don't bother backing the needle, just start it up). If it's a new engine, see the manual for first starting position, it's usually on the rich side.

The engine should start and will usually have a deeper sound. It's common to see fuel coming out of the exhaust. If you put your hand behind the muffler and feel what's coming out, you should get some raw fuel on your hands, and the oil should be light colored, or nearly transparant. The engine might be 4-stroking, which is fireing every other stroke. Yes, they can, and do, do this.

The needle is then slowly turned inwards. I usually turn no more than 1/2 turn at a time when I know I'm way rich, then smaller and smaller adjustments as I get closer to "ideal", including a click at a time at the end. It's important to let the engine "catch up" with your changes. You can't just keep on screwing the needle in, you have to pause between adjustments.

As the need is turned inwards, you will hear the sound of the engine change. first, it breaks out of 4-stroking, though a "middle range" where it's going back and forth, and in to a "clean" 2-stroke where the pitch sounds constant and clear. At this point, you are getting close to peak. If your plane has a lot of power, you can fly at this point, just inside a clean 2-stroke. You'll still be plenty rich for long life, but be getting most of the engine's power potential.

Ok, so you want more power. As you continue to slowly lean the needle, the RPMS will go up slowly. You can hear the rpms going up, that's what guys are listing for. Then, as you keep leaning SLOWLY, a few cliks at a time, you'll reach a point where the RPM doesn't change, or drops slightly. If you keep leaning, the RPM keeps dropping off. At this point, you're too lean, so back out the needle to reach that peak RPM point.

Now, when the plane is flying, the prop "unloads" and the Gforces and drop of fuel level in the tank all combine to lean the engine a bit in flight. So you should never take off at this peak setting. Instead, back the needle just enough so the hear a slight RPM decrease. For most people's ears, that's about 500rpm. Changes smaller than 500 aren't usually detectable by ear, at least I can't hear them unless I'm really paying attention.

Ok, so you've backed off from peak, so you're ready to go? Well, here's a couple of tests you should do to double check. Pick up the airplane and hold it vertically. The engine is now pulling fuel uphill, and will lean out a little. You should hear a slight RPM increase. If you hear a decrease, you are too lean, so back off the needle a tad and repeat. If you don't hear a change at all, I'd still call it slightly lean, so back off a click or two. Another test is to give the fuel line a hard, but short pinch. Again, this breifly leans the engine. You should hear a slight RPM increase. If the engine slows or staggers, back it off a tad.

One the needle is set, you won't need to adjust it much. As the weather changes, you'll need to make small adjustments, but if you find yourself wanting to change the setting by more than maybe 1/2 turn either way, something else is likely wrong in your fuel system.

The exact RPM numbers and needle setting will vary with prop, air density, humidity, fuel, and some other factors. So if you change prop sizes or fuel brand (even at the same nitro, differnet fuels will produce different RPMS and needle settings), you'll want to reset the engine.

That's it. The key is running a bit off peak RPM at all times. On my student's planes, I set the needle quite a bit off peak, since they don't need the power on the trainers anyway. It's common to see a nice smoke trail behind the plane with an engine set rich.
Old 06-01-2004 | 05:43 AM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

It sure sounds like a bad glow plug, but a very rich low end would cause similar problems. Try replacing the plug first, if that doesn't do it, find help for tuning it.
Dennis-
Old 06-01-2004 | 05:55 AM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

I've always heard if it dies when you remove the glow starter it's way too lean.
Old 06-01-2004 | 09:19 AM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

not necessarily. the reason i wanted a picture of the glow plug is because i can tell whether it is running too rich/too lean by the color and texture of the deposites left on the bottom of the plug. if the wire is all white and powdery looking i can dell that it was definatly a bad plug. the two things it could be are rich low end or bad plug, or simply the wrong plug that has gone bad as well. EAP, if you can get me those pictures they should tell us right away your problem
Old 06-01-2004 | 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

I will try to get some tonight and reply back either tonight or tommorrow!

Thanks everyone for the help!
Old 06-01-2004 | 12:24 PM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

One thin I forgot to mention..

I just moved from Ohio to Houston Texas, this is the first time I have attemped to run the plane since we moved to texas. It was very hot and humid when I tried to get the plane running again. Could the weather difference from Ohio to Texas be some of the problem? Maybe the engine needs to be readjusted to perform in the Txas heat and humidity?
Old 06-01-2004 | 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Help! engine problem?

The weather will definatly cause a tuning issue, and also being at a different elevation. Actually with the hot and humid days you get in texas, it needs to be a little leaner mixture. I could almost guarentee that your low / high end is a little to rich.
Start with the high end needle set first then work you way to the low end until you get a good transition.

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