Has anyone bought and put together a SIG 4 start arf 60. What a pain in the !@#. I don't know what they where thinking putting this thing together.
Step 1) You need to run the servo cable from the opening in the wing to through the wing to the end opening where it will be attached to the other wing. They supply a small string so you can tie it to the servo cable then pull on the other side so it will run through the wing and come out the other end.....AY RIGHT!!! First the string was so short, I could barely tie it. Second I was trying to pull the cable through the wing and nothing I tried would the cable go though. Finally got so frustrated I had to cut open the covering over the area where the servo cable supposed to go through, and sure enough....the hole they made, was about 1/4 the size of the servo cable connector end. No wonder it would not go though. So I had to cut that hole bigger through the hole I made in the covering. Had to do this on both wings. Now I have to patch the hole I cut open. Geezzzzz!!

Step 2) Attaching the wings. You have two ply would connectors which should slide into both side of the wing. Well both connector did not fit in their respective holes. Had to sand both down ALLOT to have them fit. Put the glue on everywhere, started to slide the wings together, and BAM, the back connector would not slide into one of the winds. Just stopped and that's it. I could not pull it out or push it in. So I had to saw off the rear connector on both side. The I could slide the wing together. Now my wing is only on one connected. The bigger of the two thank goodness.

Well in the process of mucking around with the wing with glue on it, I managed to get glue all over the wing covering. DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN REMOVE THE GLUE OFF THE WINGS!! .....Ahhhh so frustrating.

Well this has only been the wing assembly, can't wait to see how the rest of the build goes....

If you build the 4* 60 ARF before and have some hints....sure would appreciate it.[:@]

Thanks
Qwazzy!

Ouch!.... I built my 4* from a kit so I can't be much help. And for getting off the epoxy you can use alcohol when it is still some what wet not after it dries [sm=frown.gif]

John

When I go to pull servo wires through wings, I usually tape the string to the wire.

If the string comes out with out the wire, no need to panic. Get a longer string, tie a small nut to it, hold the wing vertical and you should be able to let gravity pull it through. When pulling the wire through, it often helps to hold the wing vertical, wing tip up to let the weight of the connector help things. I've also used a very long servo extention (36") and fed that through the wing from the root outwards. Then connect to the servo lead and pull it back through. Disconnect the extension when done. The extension holds well, and is less likely to get snagged than a knot or even tape.

When you're setting up to epoxy anything in place, you should always fully assemble every part "dry" and make sure everythings fits right. Then mix up some epoxy, the slower setting the better. For wing centers, I usualy use 30min, if not longer (depends on what I have in the shop). The longer setting time gives you time to carefully put everything together.

As John said, if the epoxy is wet, a big of alcohol or paint thinner can get it off easily. If it's dry, you're pretty stuck. A big blob will often fall off if you heat the covering with a heat gun and kinda flick at it, but a film or "finger print" of glue is often there forever.

In general, slow down and take your time. ARF assembly can go really fast once you are familiar with how these things work, but people who are not familiar with how these things are done usually take many times longer. That's ok.

Don't ever attempt a "Builder's Kit"

The pull string on my 4*60 was long enough... I tied my servo end
then taped to round off the corners of the plug then stood the wing
up and it came through with no problems.. It did not start off that
way though.. I did not follow the directions.. I test fit the joiners and
ribs then adjusted as needed, once I was satisfied I went ahead and
epoxied the wing together.... All was great until I tried to get the
pull string from the fuse end... The epoxy from the main spar dribbled
on to some of the string and tube.. Luckily I was able to chip-off the
glue and get the string loose... But all in all I thought it was a good
ARF...

I guess the main thing is to "test" fit all that needs to be epoeied/glued
make your adjustments/marks then re-test fit again, and only when
all fits/aligns then start thinking of gluing... When epoxing... keep a
wet(alcohol) cloth/paper towel.. for the messy finger prints... Don't
get in a rush... I do that sometimes... I take my time for days.. Then
I want to get it done.. So I try to rush things... And for me All that
means is..... Trouble.... There's always(almost) another day

Epoxy is hard to remove... I'm not sure if debonder will work.. And
even if it does, I would think it may remove the coloring.. But it may
be worth a try... Since you have to rework the joiners.... It maybe
better to pick up some utracote and recover.. I believe its deep red

Well I hope you luck in finishing your 4*...

I built the ARF and didn't have the problems you have indicated. However, I did dry fit everything before hand. I added a sullivan tailwheel assembly to the plane, but had problems because of a single ply bottom on the fuse. I ended up drilling a hole through to the stab shelf, guling the dowel in place then sawing it off both top and bottom then sanding. On the servo side, I ended up adding a bulkhead just behind the servo tray to hold the nyrod outer casings. They flex way too much when the servos are in operation. In addition, I added standoff brackets to hold the throttle cable casing in place as well. It also flexed way to much for good throttle response. I also replaced the nyrod pushrods with 2-56 rods using the same outer casing. I got tired of re-trimming under different temp conditions. (I don't believe others that say the nyrods don't expand and contract. I have seen it happen.) I also reinforced the gear block with fiberglass cloth and epoxy after the whole thing came out on a rough landing. Lastly, after mounting the motor (I have an OS91 surpass II on my 4*) I ran a wooden dowel across from the left side of the fuse cheeks to the right and used cowl mounting screws to hold the cheeks steady. They kept vibrating when the engine was running and the fuse started to come apart on the bottom front.

You'd think that after all this I would have nothing good to say about the plane, but I love flying it. I know this seems like a lot to do to improve the ARF, but I find I am doing a lot of this with many of them anyway. Good Luck and hope you get it to the point you want.

I also added, a strip of bulsa 2 pieces ca'd together at the ends of
the control rod housing, and did some work on my throttle cable
housing to stop flexing.. I still use the rods that came with the ARF.
Its always "HOT" here so that's pretty constant:-(
I started thinking about glassing my L.G. block as it ripped out
as I lost a main wheel in flight... But since I had no other damage,
not even a tear in the sheeting.. And the 14x6 prop was even
untouched and this was my first problem after 12 or so flights, I
just CA'd it back on.. I have no problem with the engine area yet
I run a Mag 91 4s... I like the way she flies.. But I'm looking at a
540 or yak profile to play more... But the 4* is a keeper... But
one thing is for sure... The Red is hard to see at least for me.. So
I'm trying to think up some strips to add to the wings and maybe
fuse...

This is mayhem...anarchy I tell you!!! This airplane better fly alot better then the build coming along. Fuel tank...the rubber stoper did not fit trhough the hold of the tank...pushed it, wiggled it..NOTHING. Soaked the tank in the hot water...still. Finnaly to a dremmel drill to it. Grinded around the hole, made it slightly bigger...only then went trhough.
Engine...they don't have holes drillled in the engine mouont. Try to mark those holes with the engine mount install and the on top. You can't reach in there...barley got any markings in there so I can drill some holes.

Can't wait to see what else will come up!

PS. I got a super tiger 75 for the airplane, any prop you guys would recommend. I got a 12x6 to do the break in?

I bet your prop nut for the engine will be the wrong size .

qwazzy123... My rubber stopper was also tight.. It's good that way..
Anyway I lubed the rubber then... worked it in ....:-)
Most mounts donot have holes predrilled.. This gives you a lot
of leeway for you to put what ever size engine you want....
I used a longer drill bit for mine.. Worked like a charm..
Most ARF kits are like this..
Just keep learning on this build... Once it's in the air, it makes it
all worth it!!... Then it makes you want to take on a kit... Talk
about tricks...

Have fun and enjoy!!

just take your time, it goes together quick and easy and the payoff is great.

I bought this arf just to throw around on sundays and I'm having a blast with it.
I switched to a 12x8 prop on my TH .75 and now the plane can immediatly go inverted as soon as the wheels leave the ground and nose up into a full hover at half throttle and hold nicely, then I kick the sticks over to the left and add full power and it will do the most violent snaps you have ever seen and recover instantly.

A few weeks ago, a friend with his 4*60 was flying formation with mine, we were both tumbling when he flew into my tail and completely chopped the rudder off. It still flew perfectly
Fun plane!!

raideron: I forgot to add in my response that I put 3 yellow stripes on the wing bottom for visibility. I used ultracote and covered the entire open bay from rib to rib on 1 bay in from the end on each wing tip. I used the windex method and also made sure I put pin holes in the underneath RED covering. The plane is much more visible with the stripes on it. I just chose yellow for the contrast, I am sure that white or something similar would work as well.

Thanks everyone for the support. Knowing other people are going/went through this make me feel better. I have to admit, from reading everything about the 4* 60, I totally excited to get it up in the air. Well, actually as long as it flies better them my NextStart, I will be happy. My nextstar, is ok flier....definitly under powered. Flying into the wind....total battle...just does not have the umph!

Anyone want teach me snap rolls?? :-)

Fly straight and level, about 1/3 throttle (as little as you need to fly straight and level).

Using quick movements, pull all the way back on elevator, and then immediately push both rudder and aileron to the left..... Count to 1. release all sticks so they come back to the middle.

Snaps to the left are normally quicker than to the right....

Depending on your plane, you may have to count to 1 either quickly or slowly...... ;-)

The trick is knowing when to release the sticks, that is what brings you out level and straight again.

Do it with some altitude.....

gus

Getting in to a snaproll is easy. It's the getting out that's the fun part.

From level flight, full up elevator, full rudder and full aileron in the same direction all at once.

(Note, many planes will snap with just elevator and rudder (and some will do it with just elevator or just rudder), but many sport planes need the ailerons to help. It's "more correct" to use just rudder and elevator, but easier to control when you add in ailerons. Some planes will snaproll with just elevator and ailerons (often on final approach. Perhapse you've seen this happen, usually accompanied by a pilot yelling "I've been hit" and followed by the creation of a smoking crater?)).

Anyway, given the control inputs, one of three things will happen.

1) One wing stalls, the other doesn't (or doesn't as much), and you get a snaproll. Most planes recover just by centering the sticks. The recovery often isn't instant, some planes continue to roll more than others (my cap would do 3/4 of a roll after releasing the controls. 2 snaps were easy, but 1 snap was really hard to get the exit upright. In any event the hard part is exiting upright. You're first few snaps will likely leave you inverted or sideways or who-knows-where. Most common crash after a snaproll is not figureing out which way it's really going after exiting, and doing the wrong thing.

2) The wings don't stall, and you get a really sloppy corkscrewing roll. If this happens, you need to increase controls throws (esp rudder and elevator) or move the CG back, or both.

3) You rip the wings or tail off. Snaps are rather violent in nature, and stress the airframe. If you do it going really fast, it's not out of the question that some part of the airframe might decide it would be happier on it's own. This is actually rare, but not unheard of. So, keep the entry speed and throttle fairly low at first. Some planes like more or less power to snap, and some planes handle it better than others. It's not unheard of for a plane to snap better at low speed and high throttle, meaning that you throttle down, drop airspeed, then hit the power, elevator, rudder, and ailerons at more or less the same time. You probibly won't need to do that, however.

Have fun!

hookedonrc.. Yeah I was going to use yellow.. I think.. But
that's the reason I got the ARF Red.. I thought you can't help
but see it... I was thinking of just re-sheeting three or four
ribs worth kinda in an angle starting from the first sheeting
rib at the fuse end. Then maybe a white top/yellow bottom
on the L.E. up to the next spar.. And something on the fuse..
May be I should have put the fuse star decal on the fuse
instead of using it with the wing star... Windex method?? So
you used the sticky backing stuff instead of ironing on???

Shok.. Full hover @ half throttle... I can hold my hover for
quite a while, But I start at better than half throttle and end up
at full throttle:-( I thought the Mag 91 4s would do better than
that with 14x6 prop, I'm going to try a 14x4... Trying to find if
I can run a 15x3??? But I'm still running it rich..So maybe it'll
get better.. Ofcourse I'm doing this 20 mistakes high... I'm still
a "BIG" chicken:-)

I did not use sticky backed covering. I used the yellow ultracote. The process was to cut the yellow stripes to the size that I needed, using a t-pin I put many holes in the red covering underneath where the yellow was to go, (this helps gas escape and reduces the wrinkles. Then I sprayed the wing with Windex where the stripe was to be placed and also on the back of the ultracote yellow. Doing this helps to place the film flat across the bay and keep the covering in place. I then took a plastic squeegie with paper towel wrapped over the edge and squeegied out much of the windex from between the film sheets. Then using my covering iron on low heat (about 175*) I ironed the yellow right over the red covering. I took my time and was careful not to press too hard because nothing was underneath other than the red covering. I did make sure to go from rib to rib so that I had least had a hard surface on the underside along the edges. It just takes time and patience to get it right. Watch the temp on the iron, or you will have the edges of the yellow pulling back, leaving a crooked line. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

I know nothing about the bARF!, but the kit version 4* 60 practically builds itself. Some would say you just open the box, drop in a bottle of CA then close the lid and shake briskly for a few seconds. Then open the box and fly!