Do all gas engine planes require 4 channels? I have not found any that require less than 4. All gas planes have ailerons?

Hi wings,
No, planes with glow engines can have one channel(rudder only), two channels(rudder and elevator or engine), three channel(rudder, elevator, and engine) these set ups were derived from single channel and reed radios systems from the 50's and 60's. Then along came proportional radio systems that we use today. You can get these in two, three, four, and more channels that you want. Depends how your plane will be set-up.
Planes with gas engines require four or more channel radio systems.

In our club all of us always recommends a minimum of a four channel radio to beginners. It's cheeper in the long run to buy a four channel system then to buy a three channel then later have to buy a four or more channel radio. Go with a six channel if you can aford it. My first proportional radio was a basic six channels.

If you need info on radios go to the radio forum. Lot of help there.

You have to sort out between glow and gas. In lot of flyers descriptions. They use the term gas engines too loosely. They also use it for glow engines too. It's frustating when you're looking for one type a gas burnner, and see a plane for sale as a gas equipped, and find out that it has a glow engine.

Hope this helped,


rcflyer

Ya, that helped a lot. I am new to the hobby. I just got an electric plane this summer. Its a V-tail 3 channel plane. I have only had it since mid july and its already boring.


I want a gas powered. But...until you brought it to my attention I did not know there was a difference between gas and glow. Do you know of any sites that explain the difference?


Does gas have proportional control via a carburetor and glow does not? What are the 4 servo's for on a gas engine?

up-down, back-forth, engine speed (forgive my terminology, I am new to this). Whats the fourth for?

Thanks,


Wings

wings,
I forgot to answer the last part of your question--(All gas planes have ailerons? )

I belive your'e asking about glow trainner, also do you have a radio if so how many channesl?

No, Lot of the trainners usely have three channels or four channels-includes airerons.

For three channels- Sig Senior Kadet 78" wing span- a great plane very gentle flyer,
Carl Goldberg-Eagle 2- 63" wing span- three or four channels.
Great Planes PT-40-MKII- 60" wing span- three or four channels.

You can find these planes at a hobby shop in your area, or in Tower Hobbies Cat. or their web site towerhobbies.com.

It's better to learn with a four channel set-up with engine, elevator, rudder, and airerons.

Hope I answered all the questions you had.

rcflyer

Hi,
All the engines gas and glow for R/C have carbs you don't want an engine without a carb. It helps to control the speed of your plane like you do with a car.

Glow engines like K&B, O S, lot of other brands most popular sizes are .25, .35, .40, .45, .56, and .60's cubic inch use a glow plug that you connect a 1.5 volt battery to it for starting the engine. The fuel that it use has a mixture of nitros and a % of oil for cooling and lubercating.

Giant scale isn't really for beginners untill you can handel your plane without any difficultity, then if you want to move up to giant size planes there are also trainners for that size too. The good thing about gas it's cheeper than glow fuel. They take a lot more space to store.
Gas engines has a sparkplug and use regular gasoline with a ratio of oil added just like a weed eater or chainsaw engines use a gas oil mixture. These engines have been designed for aircraft use- 1.5, 2.3, 3.1, and 5.8, and larger cubic inch are used for giant size 1/5, 1/4, 1/3 wing span 82", 9ft, 12 ft. for scale or larger planes.

Lot of times you will hear the term chainsaw engine for the airplane gas engines. It comes for the first time gas engines were used was a chainsaw engines. There was so much viberation it caused the tail to break off.

I'll try to find a web sites that has more info.


rcflyer

<blockquote>Quote
<hr>Originally posted by: wings
Ya, that helped a lot. I am new to the hobby. I just got an electric plane this summer. Its a V-tail 3 channel plane. I have only had it since mid july and its already boring.


I want a gas powered. But...until you brought it to my attention I did not know there was a difference between gas and glow. Do you know of any sites that explain the difference?


Does gas have proportional control via a carburetor and glow does not? What are the 4 servo's for on a gas engine?

up-down, back-forth, engine speed (forgive my terminology, I am new to this). Whats the fourth for?
Wings<hr></blockquote>



Hey Wings
the main difference between glow and gas is that for glow when you start it up you connect a 1.5volt battery to the glow plug. This ignites the coils inside the glow plug. after the engine is started you remove the battery and then the heat from the combustion of the fuel and the compression of the engine allow the glow plug to remain lit. glow engines run off of a mixture of nitromethane, and oil which also lubricates the engine.

a gas engion relies on it's own ignition system which ignites the air/fuel mixture through a spark plug just like in a weed wacker, chainsaw, etc. these gas engines are mainly used for large and/or giant scale aircraft. They run off of a mixture of regular 87 octane pump gas and a ratio of 2 cycle engine oil. this makes them much less expensive to run due to fuel costs and some companies sell kits to convert a weed wacker or chainsaw engine to an airplane one which is much less expensive than buying a purpose built gas aircraft engine Both glow and gas engines use a very similar carb which controls engine speed except for control line and free flight models without throttle control they just run wide open until they are out of fuel but they have a needle for adjusting the mixture be it a richer or leaner one.

To answer your next questio the primary four channels are for 1. throttle 2. rudder which controls yaw of the aircraft and can be used to turn the aircraft all by it self but when making an aileron turn rudder is coordinated in to control and minimize adverse yaw (the aircaft turing the opposite way you move the sticks) 3.Aileron- is used to control the rolling action of the aircraft called bank when you move the ailerons one direction it changes the amount of lift the wings have causing the wing to either rise or fall putting it into a banking turn. 4. Elevator is used to control the pitch of the aircraft. meaning when you move the stick it either position the aircrfat into a climbing or diving attitude.

There are however many other channel functions such as flaps, retractable landing gear, high/low rates etc. etc. but these are not necessary functions for training and normally come with more experience

I hope this answers your questions.

Some of the best RC trainers have only three channels. Rudder, elevator and throttle. Best example the Sig Kadet Senior. As mentioned before get the best radio you can afford without mortgaging the house. 4 channel if you have to, 6 channel if you can. Gas engines are usually quite large and heavy and are meant fot at least 1/4 scale. Glow engines can run up to 1.5 inches but the most common sizes run from .25 to .60 and the range of trainers that use those sizes is amazing. Just look in almost any model magazine for a trainer that appeals to you, or better still find out what the pilots at your field have to recommend. All engines in common use have throttle control except the Cox reed valves and even some of them have throttle control. Electric motors are usually used with an ESC (electronic speed control) which is just another name for a throttle.

All of the responses are right. To summarize, there is no technical reason that a model of any size with any power plant would require more than a single channel. In the 40’s-50’s some pretty large aircraft were flown with rudder only. For instance, the original “Big Guff” was almost as large as some of the giant aircraft today. The issue is one of safety and performance. The large old rudder-only aircraft were slow and were limited as to what maneuvers they could do (and required a pretty large field to do them in). Generally aircraft of moderate size and speed can be effectively controlled with three channels, where the rudder is used as the roll control. They can perform such maneuvers as loops, snap rolls, immelmans, cuban eights, stall turns, spins, and with skillful thumbs, inverted flight. Rudder-only turns tend to be not very well coordinated with a skidding entry. Addition of aileron control allows an unlimited range of aerobatics and more precise control, which especially for larger aircraft, also increases safety.

Many glow powered trainers both kits and ARF’s are designed to operate with three channels only. There is nothing wrong with learning to fly with one of these. The transition to an aircraft with ailerons is pretty simple. Of the eight aircraft I currently have, three are equipped with three channels and I still enjoy flying them for a relaxing time.

Thank you guys very much for your replies. It definetely helped. However, I am still unclear why the fourth channel is required on all the glow trainers I looked at. Is it because it is standard for glow trainers to have ailerons?

To answer your questions as to what kind of radio I have rcflyer, is that in a nut shell I dont have one yet. The plane I am flying now is an AEROBIRD, but its kind of a generic radio that comes with it, its 3 channel. It has a mixer, but.... I can only use it with the AEROBIRD, so I do need to buy another. I am pretty sure I will buy a 4 channel, maybe a 6, but probably a 4.

When I first got the AEROBIRD it was on the ground more than it was in the air. But its only been a couple months and now it has become easy. I am just afraid that when I get a glow trainer I will be starting all over. And I know those basa wood planes do not hold up well to crashes. But I have learned quite a bit with the AEROBIRD.

My plan is to get a glow trainer. I will learn to fly it, hopefully without destroying it go badly. Then I will have a 4 channel radio and engine. Then I plan to buy a kit and build one why I'm learning the trainer, because I will already have the engine and radio. All I should need is some servos and maybe a couple other small things. That sound like a good idea? I have seen pretty cool looking kits for under 100 bucks.

Thanks,

Wings

Hey wings

It is not necessary for a trainer to have ailerons... and as Ballgunner said very large planes some even giant scale have rudder only, However the whole point of at trainer is to get you use to what you will fly in the future and that is the main reason most recent trainers have four channels.

As for your radio choice I highly reccomend the new Futaba 6EXA because it is very similar in price to your standard 4 channel radio but it is a computer radio with 6 channels capable of everything you would evr want to do with an airplane. I just ordered one yesterday and will tell you how I like it when it gets here

Balsa is much more durable than you may think for example if and when you do crash a balsa plane you just cut through the covering and replace the damaged wood whereas with foam you normally have to order a new part and a drop of regular CA on foam will melt right through it.
remember the main thing about flying is to have fun and there's nothing more fun than your first solo.

I am eager hear the results of your new radio. If you dont mind, can you tell me a little more about the computer part of this radio? What you do with a radio, what it's purpose is, etc. I hate to sound ignorant, but I am. I am new to this.

Is it for storing trim settings for different planes? Is it for proportional control for helicopters? I am just guesing. I plan to buy a new plane and radio sometime between now and Christmas. I want to make a well educated decision.

Also, do the servos usually come with the radio? If so, how many? Does the receiver come with the radio? I was kind of leaning towards buying a package that has every thing needed. That way I am sure to have everthing I need. But, most trainer planes I am looking at that come with a package include a 4 channel radio. And I tend to agree that if I plan on continuing this hobby for many years, I might as well buy something that I can use for a long while. So I guess I need to learn exactly what all I need and how they come. Radio, servos, connectors, motor mounts, motor, Rx , Tx, etc. Is there a good place to learn all this without hounding the guy at the hobby shop?


Thanks for your help,

Wings

Hi Wings,
highflyer picked a good radio the price in Tower Hobbies Tower Talk catalog the Futaba 6EXA FM computer radio is $179.99 with $10 rebate on sale untill Oct. 31st.

The Futaba 6YG Skysport FM radio is $149.99 with $10 rebate(not computer).
Each radio comes with 4 servos.

The built up planes that I have found for 4 channels are from Tower Talk:

Eagle 2 Kit-63" wing span-Carl Goldberg.
There are several Sig Kadet built up kits. Some have combos with an engine. The size of engine depends on the altitude you're flying at.

I belive that a beginner should learn to build a built up model to learn the construction of a model. The ARF's are great for someone who doesn't have time to build.
I like to build kits or scratch build, also (after building several kits) modify the plane and get a lot of satisfaction from it.

rcflyer

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]HI, If you are looking to get the whole package deal radio, engine, plane [ RTF] ready to fly takes maybe
1/2 HR to ready for flight then cheack out the hanger 9 xtra easy 2 it is a great trainer a little big around 57''
wing span its worth a look at. comes with 4 ch radio - JR- .40 glue engine-every thing comes installed
good luck---- PrOp-WaSh

Wings,

This computer radio has a 6 model memory which means it can stor the trim settings the direction each servo moves for 6 seperate model (much simpler than trying to remember to reverse servos before you fly) also you can program a computer radio to do things such as fleperons, v-tail, elevon, channel mixing etc. the 6EXA is about the cheapest you will find for a 6 channel radio alone mine came with 5 servos (different ad now you get a $10 rebate) a tx and rx battery, and a reciever

As for a plane, the Sig LT 40 trainer is an excellent choice that you can buy as an ARF if you just want to get in the air, or a kit so you can see one of your own creations fly either way its a great choice the price for starting into any hobby is high, but if you get what you need the first time the price is fairly reasonable after that

GOOD LUCK

one more thing... my new radio is supposed to come in friday so I'll tell you how I like it!

Hey,

Where can you find the Sig LT 40 as a kit. I think that would be more fun, cheaper, plus I can pick what radio I want. But I cant find it as a kit.


Thanks,

Wings

Hi wings,

If you have a Tower Hobbies Tower Talk Oct issue. you will find it on page 32 at the bottom left of the page.

You can also go to towerhobbies.com and do a search for Sig airplanes trainers for engine sizes up to .25 to .50. You will find the kits there.

Let me know if you found it,

rcflyer

Thank you rcflyer, I found it.

Hey wings

I just got my radio taday it came a day early anyway i installed the new reciever in my trainer to test it out and it is extremely easy to program and i recommend it for anyone I plan on going flying Sunday so I can get some stick time on it

congratulations on deciding to build! you can also find it directly from the Sig Home page at www.sigmfg.com. If you get stuck on something don't be afraid to ask for help.

Hello WINGS!
I have been reading through this series of posts, and I must admit, you havebeen getting great info and straight scoop!
I have been building for many years, everything from simple trainers, 2 channel gliders to Giant Scale.
I hope to add more to you research by telling you I have also just recently built a SIG LT40 for my wife. She is a new flyer, and club member. ( I got it made now)
We put a EVOLUTION Trainer motor (.46 size) up front and it flys fantastic. The motor is all it is advertised to be. Excellent starting, great idle, pre-set needle for the beginner.

My best advice is for you to find your local hobby shop that has a good supply of Airplane stuff, and ask about local CLUBS. The club will get your questions answered, teach you to fly, and generally help in every way. My club even has folks that will let you try a "Buddy- Box" flight on one of their planes!

If you can spare an additional $25-40 when looking for a radio, I recommend a 6 Channel. The Futaba Skysport 6 is a great choice for beginning. I do have an opinion about "Computer" radios: Great for second radio, skip it for first. By the time you are ready to make use of a computer radio's full features, you'll be ready for another radio anyway. I own several, and 2 "computer" radios that I use on my Giant Aeromaster, and one going into my 96" Hellcat.

Planes, for your first plane unless you are ready for glue, monokote covering, and following close detail, maybe an ARF version of the LT 40 is good.
I am doing another LT 40 with internal lighting, cargo drop, etc just to have a blast. This plane is so COOL, and really can do a lot in the right hands.

Sorry to ramble on and on...
As an apology, here are a few shots of my Giant Aeromaster.

Jeepster got it right! you can save lots of cash by finding a club and instructor. A good instructor can teach you things about tuning your engine, preflights, what to look for on your plane etc. Talk to some club members BEFORE you by your equipment, it may make things easier and save lots of heart ache. And there is lots of knoledge on this site to help as well.[sm=biggrin.gif]

The closest club to here is over an hour away. I dont get off work till close to 6pm. So that leaves me with only a little time before its dark. And my lazy #%% is not getting up before work to fly. So I would only be able to go on the weekends. So I dont really want to join a club. If there was one closer I would consider, but it really would be more hassle than its worth.

I have pretty much gathered from all the great info that I have received on here that I can buy a basic trainer and I should be just fine.

I have an AEROBIRD now. I fly it with absolutely no problems any more. I can't imagine a starter trainer glow plug plane can be THAT much different than the AEROBIRD as far as flying. I am a mechanical engineer, so hopefully figuring out the fuel setting won't be that difficult. My only real concern is landing it. I land my aerobird now on a gravel road next to a field. The AEROBIRD is sturdy so when it hits a pot hole in the road I dont care. I am concered that a balsa plane with monokote will not like that too much. But I will do some more research to find out exactly which plane I want. I am leaning towards the LT 40. I plan to get one after Christmas.


Oh, one more question. Can you take the gear off the LT40 and land it on the belly in grass?

Thanks a lot guys,

Wings

The LT 40 is a real good choise. If you have a grass area large enough to land on the belly then leave the gear on it and mow the grass to provide a runway. The club I belong to only has a grass run way! Good luck!!

Flying a glow trainer and an Aerobird is going to be different, maybe more different than you realize. I'm not saying you can't do it, just be careful.

Keep in mind that a glow trainer travels around 4-6 TIMES faster in level flight, so it gets a lot farther away a lot faster, and when things go wrong they can go wrong fast.

You can take the wheels off and hand lanuch it, but hand launching a .40 size trainer is not easy, and not something you want to do by yourself. You'd do better finding a surface to use as a runway. You can get bigger wheels than normal to help with rough ground.

Thanks for the heads up on the speed difference of 4-6 times. That will make a huge difference. However, can't I simply throttle the LT 40 down with the speed controler to a level where I am comfortable, then slowly speed it up? Or will it not fly properly unless I am going 4 to 6 times faser than areobird. Aerobird can go up to 15 to 20 MPH. I have a hard time grasping that a starter trainer can go up to 90 MPH. Even 60 MPH would seem a lot faster than I would imagine. Then again, thats why I am asking questions. These are very important things to know.

I guess the main question is, why cant I just throttle it down to a level where I am comfortable?

Thanks,