I have some experience with electric cars and boats, and recently I thought it was a good time to step up to planes. However, I've noticed that the amount of electric planes are minuscule to that of nitro/glow powered planes. I have NO experience whatsoever with gas/nitro. So, I have a few questions:

1. Would gas be OK to go with, even for a total newbie beginner to gas?

2. What would be a good starter plane, and what would I need to get everything running (besides what's needed to get the plane running, I don't know what I'm talking about really but I heard about fuel pumps, and chicken sticks, and I'm confused on that topic). Also, is there a plane and everything to get started for under 400 dollars?

3. Reusing materials. I've noticed on the forums that people have been telling beginners to buy a 6 channel radio, and use it in different planes. Does that mean you still have to get a receiver for the plane? And engines too. How hard would it be to transplant it into another vehicle?

4. Nitro/gas/glow basics. Bare bottom basics. What does !QUOT!rich!QUOT! and !QUOT!lean!QUOT! mean? How are they started? etc. I need a good knowledge of what I'm getting into.

5. AMA. Everyone seems to like it and join it, but I don't know if I'm old enough to join. I'm not yet 19, so can my dad join the AMA for me, and just supervise (he doesn't know much about RC and the such)? Also, how much would it cost to use their flying field and to learn from an instructor? I'm already paying alot for the plane, I don't wanna overkill on expenses too.

There might be more down the road, this is off the top of my head. Thanks in advance, I really need some help here. It's alot more complicated than cars/boats, but it looks like a fun hobby to get into.

Thanks,
XDeath

First, welcome to RCU. It's a great place and you'll get really good advice.

I would highly recommend that you find a local club field and pay them a visit. Unfortunately, the winter months are approaching in your (our) area, and flying can be limited. It can also be pretty uncomfortable in the cold and snow.

With the above recommendation comes finding an instructor. Virtually every club out there offers free instruction on a "buddy box" which will likely save your plane and a lot of cash. The buddy box is essentially a cable that connects the instructor's transmitter to your's, and by flipping or releasing a spring loaded switch, transfers control from the transmitter you're holding to the instructor's.

Finding an instructor will allow you to choose radio equipment that is compatible with the majority of those used at the field, and help you in deciding which airplane (trainer) and engine combo will best suit your needs.

Virtually every trainer out there today flys equally well, and all of the top brand radio equipment is very good. People who recommend specific brands usually recommend what they use, a pretty good indication that things are equal.

When it comes to engines it's a slightly different story, as everyone will recommend something different. Here's the general consensus based on what I've read here and personal experience.

For typical 40 size trainers, go with a 46 size engine. OS 46AX is very good, but at the very high end of cost. The Thunder Tiger 46 PRO is also quite good, and priced quite a bit lower. The Evolution (Evo) 46 is also a good engine and priced competitively.

You can pretty easily swap out a receiver to a second plane, but the engine and servos take a lot of adjustment and fiddling, so if you can afford to, buy new ones. It's very likely that your trainer will survive learning if using an instructor, and it's nice to have two planes flyable.

Rich means a higher fuel to air ratio going into the engine, lean means higher air to fuel. A rich engine will run cooler, if set too lean you can "burn up" an engine pretty quickly. However, certain engines (ABC or ABN) will also wear out quickly if set too rich. An instructor can teach you in one sitting much more easily than we can describe the difference, because it's 90% "hearing" the difference between rich and lean.

Most clubs in the US require AMA in order to join or fly because an AMA membership includes liability insurance in case you hit someone or something with your plane. You are not too young to join, and the annual cost is $58, which includes a farily decent magazine. Some don't like it, I do.

$400 will buy the plane, engine and radio, along with a little of the required field equipment if you shop carefully. You will need fuel ($10 to $20 per gallon, buy 10% nitro content), a glow ignitor and charger (buy the one with the self contained battery), a manual fuel pump (see starter a little later), extra fuel tubing (at least 3 feet), fuel can "fittings", a couple extra props, and I would highly recommend a 12 volt starter. If you buy the type that has a self contained 12 volt battery, you won't need a "panel" for your flight box.

All this should be obtainable at just about $400, but there's still that AMA membership and local club dues to consider.

Another option would be to ask at that local club. You can often buy a good used trainer, with engine and radio, in the $200 range, a $100 to $150 savings.

Try the AMA website and look for their "Club Locater" page. You can plug in your state or Zip Code and find clubs near by.

Hope this bit of info helps you to get a better handle on things.
Dennis-

Well said DB! In my area, you can get all setup to fly with everything you need for around 350. Our LHS owner is also an instructor and insists on teaching you to fly if he sells you a trainer. Sometimes, he won't even sell the newbie a gallon of fuel just to know that he won't go out and try to fly on his own. He guarantees that if you allow him to buddy box you, you will not crash your plane while learning. He's a great guy and a great friend and always is willing to help people out at the field with problems and advice. Meeting and attaining great friends is a great "fringe" benefit of this great hobby.

Our club dues are very inexpensive, and you have a sense of belonging and support your clubs projects.

Welcome to the hobby!!!

I have about 9 planes, all on the same frequency and only one transmitter. Consider what DB said and get the starter kit whcih comes with everything. If you decide to go the distance , then get a computer radio which can hold many planes.

Since my fleet is all on the same freq, I can take a reciever out of a plane temporarily without having to buy a new one until mine is fixed. You will find a large percentage have multiple transmitters and frequencies and i wonder "why?" With different transmitters yu can accidnetly hit the wrong swtich because you not use to it. Next thing you know, your plane is in a trash can.

You would be sadly mistaken about electric planes. Between home made foam planes, kits and arfs, there are quite a few electric powered aircraft. And don't be fooled into thinking they are dinky and slow. I have a brushless powered sailplane that does well over 100 mph.
Anyways, joining AMA is generally a "MUST" because no club will allow you to fly at their field without it. And don't forget when you start with glow, you are gonna need field essentials such as, field box, electric starter, glow igniter, small hand tools, fueler, etc. So, startup cost are high but you only buy this stuff once. But no matter what the cost, the rewards are many as in meeting new friends (your new club) and learning new things!!!! I belong to two clubs and the stuff I've learned and people I've met is priceless!!!!

Dave...

Well, I used the AMA "Charter Club Locater" and found the closest one to me, about 2 miles away (107TH AERO SQUADRON). Upon going there, I found... nothing. No field, and the exact address was a residential place, a townhouse with 3 people living in it. Nothing was there. Any insight on this? I'm a little confused.

The next available place, about 10 mnutes from here, has a website. I looked at it, and it said on top of the 10.00 junior fee for me (since I'm not 19), I need to pay 15.00 a year with a junior membership (It says one dollar without a magazine, is this true?). Also, as long as I have a parental signature (which is required), do I need to also have an adult signed up? They were unclear, but most places that offer child signup often have to have an adult.

I'm going over to the field tomorrow to see what it's about, so expect a post soon

If you are watching costs I personally feel that an electric starter is not a "must" have item for a 40 size trainer. I flew for many years and never used one. Today's 2 cycle engines start so easily, it just takes a couple of flips of the prop. This is where your chicken stick comes into play. The starter also puts an ugly ring on your spinner. The first time you take your plane to the field, there will be plenty of them out there if your instructor has trouble getting your new engine started and wants to use one. Just my opinion.

As for airplanes, DB is right when he said that most trainers are virtually the same. Where you have a choice is whether you purchase a kit, an ARF (almost ready to fly), or a RTF (ready to fly) package. The kit is usually the cheapest, but requires you to assemble and cover the whole plane. Then you need to buy an engine and radio as well. An ARF on the other hand, like the kit, requires you to purchase an engine and radio separately. However, the ARF is mostly finished, only requiring slight assembly. ARF is typically more expensive than a kit, but is easier to put together (and you don't need to buy alot of the tools -- usually only basic household tools are used). Also, an ARF allows you to customize your plane by choosing an engine and radio to suit your needs. Finally, the RTF. This is usually slightly cheaper than the complete ARF package, but you're stuck with the radio and engine it comes with. Most everything you need to fly comes in the box -- plane, engine, and radio. Assembly time is only about an hour.

As a comparison, the following prices are for the same plane:

Hangar 9 Alpha 40 kit: (heh, not available... oops )
Hangar 9 Alpha 40 ARF: $115, Evo .40 2-stroke engine ($80), JR Quattro radio ($150) - total price: $345
Hangar 9 Alpha 40 RTF: $290 (comes with the exact same components as listed above in the kit).

Personally, I went with the RTF because I didn't know hardly anything about the hobby...I just wanted something "easy." Purchasing an RTF meant I didn't have to spend time installing servos, mounting an engine, breaking in an engine (the Evolution line of engines are already broke in and tuned at the factory, according to their manuals). All I had to do was assemble the 2 wing halves and tail section, attach them to the fuselage, and install the landing gear.

I would recommend a RTF solution to a complete beginner, but since you already have exposure to the R/C world, an ARF would certainly be a viable option.

Oh, and welcome to RCU!

I definitely want an ARF. I went downstairs a week ago, and realized how many transmitters I had. 3 for my boats, 4 for my cars. I realized I could have saved nearly 200 dollars if I went with a computer radio system. Silly me.

Also, If I buy a good engine, can I reuse it in same-size aircraft? Just wondering...

I'm thinking of purchasing soon (christmas is right around the corner) and as soon as November 1st starts, I can apply to the field (11/1 is their "new years" for memberships). I'm still looking at trainers, I'll tell you when I pick one so I don't screw up if I pick something bad.

And mine too I have a starter. It stays home unless I am taking a boat to the lake.

And a few other comments on equipment choices.

An RTF is a good choice if you want to just buy something and fly. Many of them come with decent components, and they are usually good deals. However, if you are the type who enjoys researching the options so you can choose for yourself, get an ARF. And finally, if you like building, kits are a good choice. As has already been said, a kit will not be any cheaper than an ARF, so don't choose a kit to save money.

I suggest NOT buying a glow starter (those things with a battery on top of a glow connector), many of them do not light a glow plug well enough. Instead, equip your flight box with a power panel, which includes a glow driver. An inexpensive 12v battery will provide power to the panel. You will then use a long wire with a connector which attaches to the glow plug. I've found this setup to me much simpler, and leads to less problems than trying to use a glow starter. Others will have different opinions, and they're right too. I'm probably in the minority on this one, just letting you know what works best for me.

You have several choices on radio systems. There are some good, economical 6 channel computer radio systems. First, I'll state that I prefer Futaba. This is a preference. From what I've read, JR also makes good radios. You'll get positive comments on Aritronics and Hitec too. Before you decide on a brand, check with the club you will be learning from. It's a good idea to stick with the brand most widely used by the club's instructors, you'll need to buddy box with them and radio manufacturers do not seem to want to build in compatibility with other brands.

I use a Futaba 6EXA, and really like it. This would be a good system to start with. If you add up the discounts and rebates at Tower, I think you can get this radio for less than $150. However, you can save some money initially by buying a basic 4 channel radio, such as the Futaba 4YF. Your first 2 or 3 planes will probably NOT need more than 4 channels. Once you decide you are serious about planes, buy a 6 or 7 channel computer radio, such as the 6EXA or 7CA. Choose the same frequency and all of the flight equipment from your first radio can be driven by the computer radio.

About the engine. It's ok to start with a basic .40, such as the OS 40LA, Thunder Tiger GP-42, etc. These will work well for trainers, and can work in other planes too. However, these engines are low on power for their class. Instead, if you choose a decent ball bearing .46, the extra power will give you many more plane choices. One more piece of advice on engines. Since you say you have no experience with glow engines, I'd suggest not starting it until you have someone with experience to help you. My reason for this is they will make sure you are doing everything in a safe manner, and they will also help you break it in properly.

And finally, AMA membership. The 19 year old question has to do with the price of membership. If you will be less than 19 on July 1, 2005, you can sign up as a youth, which will save you some $$$. If you are over 18, you can join by yourself. If you are under 18, you will need to have a parent or guardian sign your membership application. They will not force your father to join just so you can fly

OK, I'm trying to keep my expenses to a minimum right now in terms of building and field equipment, so I've cut to the bare minimum (I'm trying to make the initial load less without sacrificing the actual plane's quality). I might have missed something, so let me know if I do. I don't want to miss something at the last minute, that would be frustrating.

I decided to go with the Tower trainer, as that seemed to be the cheapest, and above it says that most trainers fly equally. If it doesn't fly well, please tell me.

Hobbico Safety Stick Engine Starter

Tower Hobbies Locking Glow Plug Clip

Hobbico 1.5V Glow Plug Battery

Top Flite 11x6 Power Point Propeller (3)

Tower Hobbies Tower Power 10% Fuel Quart (2)

Hobbico Propeller 11x5 NexSTAR Select (for break in)

Great Planes Silicone Fuel Tubing Standard 3'

Tower Hobbies Hand-Crank Fuel Pump

Futaba 6EXA 6-Channel FM/4 S3004 Servos

Thunder Tiger Pro .46 BB ABC w/Muffler

Tower Hobbies Tower Trainer 40 MKII ARF .40-.46,62"
-------------------
I'm not sure if I need a glow plug or not (I'm not sure even what it does) or a fuel filter, but if I need it, by all means, if I need it, I'll get it.

Thanks for all of your help

That was quick. Here's a few more comments.

You'll do better if you find a local hobby shop (LHS) to buy your fuel.

Not sure if the TT Pro 46 comes with a glow plug or not. You should have 1 or 2 spares. I use OS #8 plugs on most of my engines.

Do not buy wooden propellers. You will break them. Master Airscrew props are durable. You also can use the same prop for break in and flying. This means you only need to buy 2-3 props up front.

Fuel filters are useful for trapping stuff in the fuel before it gets to the carb.

You'll need something on top of the fuel bottle to connect the fuel lines to.

I recommend adding a voltmeter to your field equipment. It's important to test your receiver battery before you fly at the begining of the day, and between flights. Here's one possibility: http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/towp1181.html You'll also need leads to connect the voltmeter to the receiver battery. Tower sells sets that look nice, or you can get some bananna plugs and a wire with female Futaba J connector and make your own.

That's all for now. I'm sure there are lots of things I've missed, but it's late and my team finally won the world series, so it's time for bed. YAY RED SOX!!!!

OK, I have a little bit of a dillemma. There are only trainers on the field near me during the summer months every thursday. However, my friend is willing to buddy box me, if not to teach, then just so I can have a little mid-air fun over the winter while I wait for the trainer to come back. However, my friend has a Airtronics RD6000. Does that mean that we can't buddy box? If not, should I get an airtronics radio? I don't know if they're a good radio manufacturer or not. I was thinking of getting the VG6000 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXEUM1**&P=ML).It's cheaper, however I don't know how having BB-less servos will affect performance. Anyone have any info?

thanks

EDIT: Quick question, the carb seems to be on the front of the Thunder Tiger engine. Is this bad?

Hi every one, my good friend xdeath reborn got me here. I do have some know-how on airplanes. I have been fiying for about a year. I have 4 Electric planes and I have a duraplane wich I am almost done it has a O.S. 40. And a autokite wich I have not started. I hope I could help with any questions.

I've seen Tower trainers at the club. The instructors say it is a good trainer.

Airtronics makes perfectly good radios. They are not really popular around our club, but the people who have them like them If you buy the Airtronics radio, and an Airtronics trainer cord, you can buddy box with your friend. As far as I know, Airtronics can only buddy box with Airtronics. If your springtime instructor does not have Airtronics, or the club doesn't have an Airtronics trainer box, you'll have to buy an Airtronics trainer box between now and spring. The box with cord is $29.99.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAFH0&P=M
The cord alone is $11.99 I'd spend the $30, that way you'll always be ready for training with anyone who's qualified and willing to help you.

Don't worry about the non-BB servos. They'll work fine.

The Thunder Tiger engine does not include a glow plug. The OS #8 is a good choice. Other plugs may also work very well. My brother tried several different plugs in his and the OS works best for him. I use the Fox Miracle plug in my Thunder Tiger 61 and it works good for me.

I agree with the Master Airscrew nylon prop recommendation. I am still a student and have broken a bunch of APC props and a few wooden ones. The black nylon props have enough flex to survive a 'nose low' landing.

Definitely find a local source for fuel. In Dallas, I can buy 10% fuel for as little as $8.95 per gallon.

I've been flying for 12 years and have used Futaba and Airtronics. Not a single problem with either one. I have the RD 6000 and I really like it. Don't be afraid of the Airtronics. It just dawned on me that in 1992 I bought a Air Vanguard and Futaba Conquest radio and paid 250.00 for each. Today, you can but a basic computer radio for the same money. Think about that.

From reading through your list, some questions come to mind:

Just from the description, these do not sound compatible. Glow Plug clips are usually the clip and wire that run to a power panel with 12v battery.

Buy your fuel locally. The fuel that we use is hazardous to ship, so it has to come by truck. That is if you buy it by the gallon. I don't know about buying by the quart. But buying by the gallon is a better idea. Your largest reoccuring expense in the hobby is fuel. Since a gallon of fuel at the LHS is between $8 and $14, and knowing how many gallons I use in a year (2-3, I only get to fly about 2 times a month), that is going to be cheaper and easier in the long run. I check my fuel level before heading to the field. If I have about 1 quart left (1/4 left in the gallon jug) I stop at the shop and pick up a gallon on my way.

I don't have any TT engines, so I don't know if it comes with a glow plug or not. But you will need a couple spares. They last a long time, but if you are having engine problems because of the glow plug, it is nice to have another one to switch out. You need a fuel filter also. Get an inline filter.

All of the 2 stroke engines I have seen have the carb on the front. It is not bad.

Now that I have said all of that, here is my opinion:
With the research you have done (including prices that include shipping), go to a hobby shop near you and see how they compare. Either their prices are close or way off. If way off, ask if they will try to match the pricing you got online. That is for the large $ items (plane, transmitter and engine). For the other bits and pieces, seriously consider just buying at the shop. Ask them who their resident RC expert is. Then ask him/her what you need to get started. You already have a good list started. The hard thing about buying these things online is until you get into the hobby a little bit you will not know what comes included with a certain part. Since I bought my bits and pieces at the hobby shop, I knew that the 3' of fuel line came with my fuel pump. The inline fuel filter did also.

Also, don't forget to get epoxy and CA to put your ARF trainer together.

And said clip connects to the 1.5v output of the power panel. The parts he chose are compatable, and he can continue using the glow plug clip if he converts to a power panel later.

Well, I've been over to my local hobby shop, and I have to say, it doesn't impress me much. Most of the focus is on trains and die-cast models. There's also a full shelf of Tamiya diorama figures, and then, way in the back, there's a small shelf to RC. It's not too bad in terms of parts, but there aren't too many actual RC cars/planes. Also, the prices are definitely out there. On Tower Monokote is about 11 bucks, and at the LHS it's about 20. I'm not too sure about fuel, usually I hear he has only high-nitro fuel, 20+ usually, but I'll check to see if he has some 10%.

For the master airscrew props, I read on Tower (on the wooden prop page) that they can warp with engine rotation in mid-air. Is this something I have to worry about?

Also, idle bar. what is it? It said on Tower that the Tower glow plug doesn't have an idle bar, is this bad?

Thanks alot

For high performance use, a wooden prop can be better. For trainers and sport planes, the durability of a nylon prop far outweighs the small performance loss.

An idle bar is a piece of metal that used to partially cover the coil on glow plugs. It was there to protect the coil from splashing fuel at lower rpms. This helped it stay hot while idling. Manufacturers have improved the coils enough such that idle bars are no longer needed. Plugs such as the OS #8 work well in most engines.

Xdeath,

What part of Michigan are you in?

>>Well, I've been over to my local hobby shop, and I have to say, it doesn't impress me much. Most of the focus is on trains and die-cast models. There's also a full shelf of Tamiya diorama figures, and then, way in the back, there's a small shelf to RC.<<

Must be Hobby Town.

That's what we have in a strip mall in my town. I buy a few things there, usually $2-$3 at a time and sometimes a gallon of really expensive fuel. But it's better than nothing. Just don't expect any help. This LHS is usually tended by a teenaged girl who really doesn't even want to be bothered with ringing up a purchase.

The LHS near me isn't a HobbyTown, it's a mom and pop store, simply known as Ed's. While Ed does sell fuel (Not too sure on the price per gallon), he usually only deals out car and boat fuel, mostly from 20-30%. However, I will check if he has some 10%. This raises the question: can I go lower than 10% to increse the life of my engine? If I go to FAI( dunno what it stands for) 0% fuel, will it help my engine last longer?

I added a "voltwatch" to my list of things to buy, is this a good product? It is apperantly able to read the voltage in your reciever, using very little amperage to run, and it can be mounted on the side of the plane to be read for convenience. Of course, this option looks good to me just because it is cheaper, plus added convenience. But it sounds too good to be true. Is it any good?

The voltwatch occupies one channel, but the receiver that comes with the 6EXA is a 7 channel receiver. Does that mean I can plug the voltwatch in to the 7th channel, and it will run full-on from the moment I turn it on? Or do I have to occupy a channel to make it work.

Thanks for all the help.

While I'm no expert, I think you'll at least want to run 10 percent, and I've heard many folks say they switch to 15 in the winter. Me, I always use 15 percent, seems like my engines just run better on it.

As for the voltmeter, plug it into any open channel on your receiver and it should work. I had one once and it always toldme I was fully charged even when I wasn't, so don't put a lot of stock in those things.

The choice is a voltwatch, which stays in the plane, or a voltmeter which you plug into the charging jack on the switch harness. A meter such as this one has built in resistance to simulate the receiver and servos: http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/towp1181.html
You will need to add leads to this meter so you can plug it into the charging jack. You can buy the premade ones, or make your own. I place more trust in a meter than relying on some lights. It's also cheaper to buy one meter which works for all your planes than multiple voltwatches.

If you buy a switch/charge jack mount, such as this one: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ778&P=0 the jack can be mounted in a convenient place for charging and testing the voltage.