learning without an instructor
07-29-2003 | 11:41 PM
#51
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From: Des moines, IA
learning without an instructor
I learned on my own, I ain't god and don't recommend it, but at least drill yourself to be willing to ground the plane if it even appears to begin to present danger to you or anything else. Only crashed one plane badly enough I didn't rebuild it. The SPAD Debonaire is still easily rebuildable, I'm just out of flight stuff!
07-30-2003 | 12:54 AM
#52
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learning without an instructor
I own the only know running "Capriolo" Bondone in existance!
I learned how to ride in a sandpit, while in grade school, on a "Capriolo" I bought with money I'd saved. Not sure what the Bondone is, but mine was only about 100cc, smaller than some of the RC engines out there today.
Dennis-
07-30-2003 | 01:09 AM
#53
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learning without an instructor
Dennis,
Good to hear that. I got it from a guy who was selling it as a Ducati, I'd never heard of one 'til I went to look at it. It is of special interest, because it was made by what was originally the Caproni Heavy Bomber Co.- heavy Italian bombers from WWI and WWII. They set many records for altitude, and gross weight.
It is a 100cc, "Overhead drum cam" (think record player turntable w/two bumps to actuate the lifters, driven by a shaft) I don't quite know what "Bondone" means, but it is the "Sport Touring model, with the long seat, and a really weird looking gas tank, similar to the Ducati "jelly mold" tank. Orange gold in color, made in 1961, same year as me.
I spent 3 full days taking apart, and putting together the tranny before it would work, now I ride it for breakfast, and an after dinner snack. If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'll let you take it for a ride for old times' sake.
Jetts
Good to hear that. I got it from a guy who was selling it as a Ducati, I'd never heard of one 'til I went to look at it. It is of special interest, because it was made by what was originally the Caproni Heavy Bomber Co.- heavy Italian bombers from WWI and WWII. They set many records for altitude, and gross weight.
It is a 100cc, "Overhead drum cam" (think record player turntable w/two bumps to actuate the lifters, driven by a shaft) I don't quite know what "Bondone" means, but it is the "Sport Touring model, with the long seat, and a really weird looking gas tank, similar to the Ducati "jelly mold" tank. Orange gold in color, made in 1961, same year as me.
I spent 3 full days taking apart, and putting together the tranny before it would work, now I ride it for breakfast, and an after dinner snack. If you are ever in my neck of the woods, I'll let you take it for a ride for old times' sake.
Jetts
07-30-2003 | 11:45 AM
#54
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From: Ashburn, VA
Hmmm
My original (and unfair) thought was that younger (Gen X) folks would have been more likely to try it alone.
Now that I think about it, you'd have to be able to (fairly easily) afford the starting costs to even try it alone.
But, my thought that something of value might come out of this has been validated.
If, 40 somethings (like me) are the ones trying it alone, than the clubs ARE doing something wrong, because we are probably the best additions you can have at a club.
Best, in that we are probably old enough to be fairly certain to stay in the hobby, and have the finances to do so.
Now that I think about it, you'd have to be able to (fairly easily) afford the starting costs to even try it alone.
But, my thought that something of value might come out of this has been validated.
If, 40 somethings (like me) are the ones trying it alone, than the clubs ARE doing something wrong, because we are probably the best additions you can have at a club.
Best, in that we are probably old enough to be fairly certain to stay in the hobby, and have the finances to do so.
08-03-2003 | 02:04 AM
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From: no city,
AL
learning without an instructor
I expect that many elect to go it alone because they encountered someone like RCPilet in their early stages.
For my first attempt at RC (I had flown CL and FF years before) I built a Kadet. On my second flight i became disoriented and crashed while my "instructor" was bragging to some other guy about how many people he had taught.
I then built a large 3-channel polyhedral plane, either a-piece-o-cake or a Butterfly, found a place to fly alone and was soon relatively proficient. Then the transition to the rebuilt Kadet was no big trick.
For my first attempt at RC (I had flown CL and FF years before) I built a Kadet. On my second flight i became disoriented and crashed while my "instructor" was bragging to some other guy about how many people he had taught.
I then built a large 3-channel polyhedral plane, either a-piece-o-cake or a Butterfly, found a place to fly alone and was soon relatively proficient. Then the transition to the rebuilt Kadet was no big trick.
08-03-2003 | 11:48 AM
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From: Olcott, NY
learning without an instructor
In the not too distant past, when someone said they couldn't get any help from their club, you could be certain that some poster would go off on the newbie who couldn't get help. Insisting that it must be the newbie's fault and then swear that it has to be because the veteran flier's club has a ton of instructors eager to teach anyone who joins the club. Like because his club allegedly does an excellent job of teaching, it is indeed the norm in all clubs.
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
08-03-2003 | 12:31 PM
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From: Odessa,
TX
learning without an instructor
I too am learning to fly. I have about 10 flights in, landing is the only mandatory issue. Set up is important, trims , tighten props, landing gear, etc. Sounds dumb but you can overlook simple things during an adreline rush. Fly have fun, be easy onthe sticks, be very patient. All crashed airplane can be fixed!!!
08-03-2003 | 02:28 PM
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From: Ashburn, VA
learning without an instructor
Originally posted by nascarjoe
In the not too distant past, when someone said they couldn't get any help from their club, you could be certain that some poster would go off on the newbie who couldn't get help. Insisting that it must be the newbie's fault and then swear that it has to be because the veteran flier's club has a ton of instructors eager to teach anyone who joins the club. Like because his club allegedly does an excellent job of teaching, it is indeed the norm in all clubs.
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
In the not too distant past, when someone said they couldn't get any help from their club, you could be certain that some poster would go off on the newbie who couldn't get help. Insisting that it must be the newbie's fault and then swear that it has to be because the veteran flier's club has a ton of instructors eager to teach anyone who joins the club. Like because his club allegedly does an excellent job of teaching, it is indeed the norm in all clubs.
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
For instance, if you say that "I would pay for lessons", you will get a chorus of "Why would you want to do that?", "The club has a bunch of free instructors.", etc., etc..
08-03-2003 | 04:18 PM
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From: Los Angeles,
CA
learning without an instructor
Originally posted by nascarjoe
In the not too distant past, when someone said they couldn't get any help from their club, you could be certain that some poster would go off on the newbie who couldn't get help. Insisting that it must be the newbie's fault and then swear that it has to be because the veteran flier's club has a ton of instructors eager to teach anyone who joins the club. Like because his club allegedly does an excellent job of teaching, it is indeed the norm in all clubs.
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
In the not too distant past, when someone said they couldn't get any help from their club, you could be certain that some poster would go off on the newbie who couldn't get help. Insisting that it must be the newbie's fault and then swear that it has to be because the veteran flier's club has a ton of instructors eager to teach anyone who joins the club. Like because his club allegedly does an excellent job of teaching, it is indeed the norm in all clubs.
Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands.
nascarjoe
Lighthouse Hobbies
Also, if there is any posting that might disillusion the new-comer and stop them persisting and learning, it must be that one.
To all Newbies:- Keep trying! You will get it in the end, and it will be worthwhile!
-David C.
08-03-2003 | 04:51 PM
#63
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Two great points
Tazzyboy has a couple of over looked points- EASY ON THE CONTROLS! I can always tell when one of my students is "in trouble" because the Transmitter starts to sound like someone tap dancing! (the sticks being wildly overcontroled!)
Secondly, (mainly if you use wooden props) ALWAYS double check the tightness at the begining of a flying session.
Jetts
Secondly, (mainly if you use wooden props) ALWAYS double check the tightness at the begining of a flying session.
Jetts
08-03-2003 | 05:13 PM
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From: Olcott, NY
learning without an instructor
Originally posted by David Cutler
I'm sorry, I can't agree with that at all.
Also, if there is any posting that might disillusion the new-comer and stop them persisting and learning, it must be that one.
To all Newbies:- Keep trying! You will get it in the end, and it will be worthwhile!
-David C.
I'm sorry, I can't agree with that at all.
Also, if there is any posting that might disillusion the new-comer and stop them persisting and learning, it must be that one.
To all Newbies:- Keep trying! You will get it in the end, and it will be worthwhile!
-David C.
nascarjoe
08-03-2003 | 05:30 PM
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From: Los Angeles,
CA
learning without an instructor
Originally posted by nascarjoe
It's not the posting that disillussions the newbie, it's the clubs that promise help but doesn't deliver. BTW, this isn't IMHO but straight from the horse's mouth (many, many grounded beginners).
nascarjoe
It's not the posting that disillussions the newbie, it's the clubs that promise help but doesn't deliver. BTW, this isn't IMHO but straight from the horse's mouth (many, many grounded beginners).
nascarjoe
"Interestingly enough, there really is no place for the disillusioned and grounded newbie to voice his complaints as anything he says will most assuredily fall on very deaf ears. Not so much because no one wants to help, but for the most part, there is really nothing that anyone in the world can do, even the AMA nor the multibillion dollar RC industry. In reality, it's enitirely out of everyone's hands. "
. . I would think twice about going to the club in the first place.
I will repeat what I wrote, just in case this prophet of doom message is read by a new-comer:-
"To all Newbies:- Keep trying! You will get it in the end, and it will be worthwhile!"
Far from being out of everyone's hands and the world being full of deaf ears, there are literally thousands, if not millions, of people who are in a position to help, and do so every day. There are, admittedly, a few who don't fall into that category, but that's no reason to be disillusioned.
-DC
08-03-2003 | 07:33 PM
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From: Olcott, NY
learning without an instructor
Originally posted by David Cutler
Far from being out of everyone's hands and the world being full of deaf ears, there are literally thousands, if not millions, of people who are in a position to help, and do so every day. There are, admittedly, a few who don't fall into that category, but that's no reason to be disillusioned.
-DC
Far from being out of everyone's hands and the world being full of deaf ears, there are literally thousands, if not millions, of people who are in a position to help, and do so every day. There are, admittedly, a few who don't fall into that category, but that's no reason to be disillusioned.
-DC
I don't remember mentioning anything about doom and gloom, but it sure doesn't help the big picture when there are more than likely literally thousands, if not millions of beginners or potential beginners who never get the opportunity to earn their solo wings.
I also get my info from the AMA, many posts on related forums, RC
industry members, such as major manufacturers, and distributors etc. Where do you get your info? It seems that all of the above would love to share you rosy view of things.
nascarjoe
11-07-2003 | 09:20 PM
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From: 5000 ft ASL,
CO, US MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
RE: learning without an instructor
My two cents-
learned the basic basics on a Slow Stick, this is great for perspective, at first you will have a HARD time with referencing what the plane is doing.
Got a Superstar 40. Crashed it. Got G2 sim and played with that some, continuing.. Repaired superstar, crashed, repaired, more sim time, doing OK now.
One thing I have learned the hard way is on landing in a large area, it is easy to focus on the plane and not said large area, therefore landing on the edge of the field. This is expensive! And trainers float for-freaking-ever.
-two months after SS purchase
learned the basic basics on a Slow Stick, this is great for perspective, at first you will have a HARD time with referencing what the plane is doing.
Got a Superstar 40. Crashed it. Got G2 sim and played with that some, continuing.. Repaired superstar, crashed, repaired, more sim time, doing OK now.
One thing I have learned the hard way is on landing in a large area, it is easy to focus on the plane and not said large area, therefore landing on the edge of the field. This is expensive!
And trainers float for-freaking-ever.-two months after SS purchase
11-07-2003 | 10:25 PM
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From: Raleigh,
NC
RE: learning without an instructor
There are times, however, that there is no choice in the matter. If you cant find a club or someone knowledgeable that can help you then its all up to you. Growing up in Puerto Rico I was faced with that dilema. Not having someone that could guide me in the art of building and flying left me with no option but to try it alone. I did my homework, took me 3 months to build my first airplane, all from scratch, learned basic r/c flying concepts from magazines and pray pray pray. After about 6 tanks of fuel on the ground doing fast taxi runs to nose wheelies then mini-hops into the air I let it climb until it looked like a dot. Level flight was not mastered during this flight and had to bring it deadstick to a not so serious landing. The landing gear came off but the airplane was in one piece. Fixed it that night and my dad and I went again the following day, much better take off and lower passes were accomplished. The landing although better than the first one left me with a bent nose gear but everything else was intact. Eventually I managed to put my trainer on the ground effortless and progress to other airplanes. My point, if there is no possible way for one to get help then you have to do what you have to do....otherwise seek help from a club or a friend that knows about the hobby. My 2 chavos.
11-07-2003 | 10:38 PM
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From: Carrollton, KY
RE: learning without an instructor
I am relatively new to rc, started this summer. I live way out in the middle of KY and there is no clubs around. I don't know anybody aound here that flies. I LOVE this site and appreciated all that I have learned. It REALLY annoys me that most people (and a few that get very sarcastic and disrespectfully treat you like an idiot when you mention that you are going to learn on your own) on this forum insist that there is a 95% chance of failure if learn on your own. I will agree that flying own your own is not optimal. But when you don't have much of a choice what do you do? Driving for hours to a club definetely is an option, however, maybe it is not what that individual wants. Maybe his/her time is more valuable than that. It is a personal decision.
I learned on an electric, then got an LT 40. Through all the research I have done on RCU I have been able to fly it successfully for over a month now. So, can you RCU people please stop telling people that are destined to fail and treating people like they are stupid because they ask a simple question on what they can expect when they do try to solo?
You don't know that persons situation or their ability. Tell them nicely it would be better if they got help, then be supportive and try to help them if they choose to learn on their own.
I learned on an electric, then got an LT 40. Through all the research I have done on RCU I have been able to fly it successfully for over a month now. So, can you RCU people please stop telling people that are destined to fail and treating people like they are stupid because they ask a simple question on what they can expect when they do try to solo?
You don't know that persons situation or their ability. Tell them nicely it would be better if they got help, then be supportive and try to help them if they choose to learn on their own.
11-08-2003 | 06:20 PM
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From: Ashburn, VA
RE: learning without an instructor
Strangely, all you get from a website is advice.
No one on the website can physically stop someone from trying to learn on their own.
In my 2 years of flying, almost none of the other newbies I met would have had a successful first flight (and trashed their airplane) if they had not had an instructor. For that reason, and that a gas-powered trainer is, in fact, a potentially lethal toy, I can't just say live and let live.
I think anyone who wants to try it alone should be discouraged in the harshest tones...
Afterall, it's just advice.
No one on the website can physically stop someone from trying to learn on their own.
In my 2 years of flying, almost none of the other newbies I met would have had a successful first flight (and trashed their airplane) if they had not had an instructor. For that reason, and that a gas-powered trainer is, in fact, a potentially lethal toy, I can't just say live and let live.
I think anyone who wants to try it alone should be discouraged in the harshest tones...
Afterall, it's just advice.
11-08-2003 | 07:40 PM
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From: Lancaster,
CA
RE: learning without an instructor
I loved reading all of the comments, Sarcastic and serious. When I decided to learn to fly 23 yrs ago, I went to our local field and asked the guys what to buy, I bought it, built and was instructed by a guy who used to fly rpvs for NASA!! I was fortunate...the main thing I can add for ALL of you is this, an experienced instructor can save you LOADS of time, money and frutration, by actually TEACHING you to do it RIGHT !!! for instance, how and when to use the rudder, how to manage power versus energy, getting you through your first figure eights, landing from BOTH ways on the runway the list goes on and on, point is they will twach you CORRECTLY field etiquet, proper safe handling of your aircraft. I have seen alot of self taught people come out to the field and commence to scare the hell out of all of us!!! a very few actually knew how to fly well and most had bad habits that resulted in unsafe flying, deadsticks and landing on our cars!!! I am not against learning on your own at all , but, simply use common sense and be willing to always learn. I am not the best pilot out there but I have a blast and I try not to scare anyone except me. Good Luck TroyP!!
11-08-2003 | 10:57 PM
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From: Houston, TX,
RE: learning without an instructor
I'm also a newbie but I've read some pretty dumb things in here. I don' think you need any flying experience to tell that RCpilet is a real j-@&&. As a new member of this board, I'm really put off by people like him.
TerrellFlyer: "If you don't run out of money and patience,you can learn to half a** fly"
Through logical procession, do you think that the first person to fly RC learned to fly half a**fly? What kind of thinking is that? You're saying that a person that learns to fly by himself will never learn to fly correctly?
Look, I plan on having an instructor to fly with, but for the people that don't have a way of doing so, I don't think people should be rude to them and act like it's the end of the world for them because they don't have an instructor. SOME PEOPLE IN HERE ARE JUST THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF J-*****ES. I really hope the RC community in my local club isn't that way. I hear from my LHS that there are certain cliques. I hate that.
Well, done b!+ching.
TerrellFlyer: "If you don't run out of money and patience,you can learn to half a** fly"
Through logical procession, do you think that the first person to fly RC learned to fly half a**fly? What kind of thinking is that? You're saying that a person that learns to fly by himself will never learn to fly correctly?
Look, I plan on having an instructor to fly with, but for the people that don't have a way of doing so, I don't think people should be rude to them and act like it's the end of the world for them because they don't have an instructor. SOME PEOPLE IN HERE ARE JUST THE BIGGEST BUNCH OF J-*****ES. I really hope the RC community in my local club isn't that way. I hear from my LHS that there are certain cliques. I hate that.
Well, done b!+ching.
11-08-2003 | 11:17 PM
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From: Memphis,
TN
RE: Go for it!!
ORIGINAL: Rcpilet
Hey, I say GO FOR IT!!!!!!
All of us who advise beginners to get an instructor have no idea what we're talking about. We never actually needed an instructor either. We just did it to appease the old farts.
If you go ahead and fly the plane on your own; whats the worst thing that could happen?
You might get lucky and get it off the runway without breaking it or running it into someone. Then if you get it off the runway, it will surely fly straight and level and just climb gently to altitude without throwing you any curveballs, right? What are the chances that you might have the ailerons reversed, or the elevator reversed? Heck, I'll even bet a weeks pay that you'll have the balance perfect!!!!!!
Go for it buddy!!!!!!! YAAAAHHHHHOOOOO
It only costs about $500 to build a plane. You've got deep pockets and if you happen, by some unforseen reason, to crash it; just go get a new one, right? No problem.
I'll bet you can even land the sucker on your first attempt. After all, you do have extensive flight simulator experience. And any idiot knows that a simulator is "Just like the real thing". Flying a simulator has probably made you an expert pilot already, and you haven't even flown a real plane yet. Flying a real RC plane isn't all that different than a simulator. Just go for it!!!!!!!!!!
You might want to take a few pictures of your plane BEFORE you head out to the runway. Just in case something bad happens, and God forbid, you wind up taking the plane home in a trashbag.
Good luck. Heh heh.
Hey, I say GO FOR IT!!!!!!
All of us who advise beginners to get an instructor have no idea what we're talking about. We never actually needed an instructor either. We just did it to appease the old farts.
If you go ahead and fly the plane on your own; whats the worst thing that could happen?
You might get lucky and get it off the runway without breaking it or running it into someone. Then if you get it off the runway, it will surely fly straight and level and just climb gently to altitude without throwing you any curveballs, right? What are the chances that you might have the ailerons reversed, or the elevator reversed? Heck, I'll even bet a weeks pay that you'll have the balance perfect!!!!!!
Go for it buddy!!!!!!! YAAAAHHHHHOOOOO
It only costs about $500 to build a plane. You've got deep pockets and if you happen, by some unforseen reason, to crash it; just go get a new one, right? No problem.
I'll bet you can even land the sucker on your first attempt. After all, you do have extensive flight simulator experience. And any idiot knows that a simulator is "Just like the real thing". Flying a simulator has probably made you an expert pilot already, and you haven't even flown a real plane yet. Flying a real RC plane isn't all that different than a simulator. Just go for it!!!!!!!!!!
You might want to take a few pictures of your plane BEFORE you head out to the runway. Just in case something bad happens, and God forbid, you wind up taking the plane home in a trashbag.
Good luck. Heh heh.
Dude you have issues.. there are ways of getting your point across without looking like a total TOOL
11-08-2003 | 11:34 PM
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From: Binghamton, NY
RE: Go for it!!
Actually I found that quite amusing even if it is untrue. I fully plan to teach myself how to fly electrics, then learn how to fly glow from an instructor once I can afford a glow plane. If I fail and end up wasting the $150 I'm spending on the plane i'll bow down and kiss your feet, but i guarantee I can go through epoxy and spare parts right up until the electronics quit 
