Audie

Hello, fellow remote control aircraft enthusiasts. I will soon take my first step into this fascinating world of remote control, affordable, aviation. However, before I travel to the remote control airfield and try my hand at defying gravity I wanted to ask a few questions. I recently purchased the Nexstar Select from Towerhobbies, and I have been spending every free minute I have in the included simulator in various conditions and weather (About 7 and 1/2 hours so far, aiming for 20+ before first flight), but before I fly in real life, I wanted to ask, how realistic is the simulator, and should I spend more than 20+ hours in it before I really fly? Also, what is the average run time for the Nexstar select? I have done the math and it should be around 20 to 25 minutes, is that accurate? And my final question, has anyone heard of the Loveland propbusters near Cincinnati? They are the nearest RC airfield and will probably be the club I join and receive training from, I went to see their facility today and was generally quite impressed by what I saw there. Are there any members here? Thanks, and sorry for the long post.

(Also-If you have something to add, please feel free to mention it. I will take anything that can give me an advantage out there.)

(Edit 1 - Is there anything I should know about the handling characteristics of the Nexstar? I have read every review I can find and, as I mentioned before, have spent a large amount of time in the simulator. Is there anything I might have missed about my plane? I have been flying without the AFS in the simulator because I prefer how it handles without it, should I use it on my first flights just incase I get in trouble and my trainer doesn't realize it in time?)

echobot

Audie,

Welcome to the hobbie.

I have never flown the Nextstar but most trainers are pretty easy to fly with the proper training.

I'm sure you are excited to fly your new bird, but don't do it without an instructor. The sims are a good tool for learning but there is no sim that is going to fly like the real thing.

You will save yourself a lot of money and anger if you get someone to test fly your new plane to see if the plane is properly balanced and that the controls are working in the proper direction.

A lot of guys have tried teaching themselves how to fly and very few have succeeded. I'm sure if you stopped by the field someone would be glad to check out your plane and test fly it for you.

Good luck with your new plane and this is a GREAT hobby to be in so take the time and learn all you can from us old farts.

zope_pope

Dude, join a club, get an instructor. The sim is nothing compared to real life. Simulators depict a perfect world where there is no windshear no updrafts, downdrafts, distractions, etc. I did it on my own, and got lucky (I soloed successfully on my first attempt to fly an R/C Airplane.) Looking back i would say it is not the best of routes, and I did almost end up like the general population, 5 seconds then the ground, but I lucked out. I now know that I missed out on so much trying to fly by myself. I didn't range check, I didn't know what a control throw was, I didnt even know how to tune my engine. There is just so much that the sim can't teach you. Do yourself a favor and resist temptation and grab an instructor. R/C flying is a lt harder than it looks. Not everyone is lucky like I was.

Adam

zope_pope

and for the old fart comment. I am only 20 thank you very much. j/k. :P

Audie

You seem to have missed the "will probably be the club I join and receive training from", and the "just incase I get in trouble and my trainer doesn't realize" parts of my post. I had always planned on finding a trainer. The simulator time is just to help me get the feel of flying from the 3rd perspective so I don't make a stupid mistake on the field that could have easily been avoided. After a rather poor experience with a piece of junk Cox EZ-Bee (Heh, that was the worst excuse for a plane I have ever seen. It was too large for that microscopic engine.) several years ago I have little desire to convert my brand new plane into a nice pile of broken balsa wood.

zope_pope

I took trainer as the airplane, not the instructor. Sorry bout that. 20 hours is plenty enough then. Just remember to point the stick at the low wing when flying towards you. If i get distracted I still use that one.

adstott

The trainer will definitley give you a "leg up." I have the Great Planes G2 trainer and I find that it is easier and also harder than the real thing. It's easier in the fact that the planes fly perfectly but it's harder in that you tend to lose your reference with the ground if you fly to high. The trainer will allow you to get certified much more quickly and possibly more cheaply then without it.

Good luck. Before you know it you'll be looking for a faster and more aerobatic plane.

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

zope pope, never heard that one, but in a few years i plan on training my little cousin and he will learn it that way.

audie, you will enjoy flying i garuntee it. The sim is nice, but not completly real

Eagle Al

There is no finite number of hours for a simulator. Frankly you could spend the rest of your life on it and not perfect every movement known to man. I consider simulator training more valuable than flight instruction at the field. As far as realism goes, you can set any simulator up to be extremely challenging. Dial in a 40 Knot wind and some 60 Knot gusts. That'll give you a thrill. Try flying upside down while doing the pattern with the rudder a foot off the runway.

Can you take off, fly the pattern maintaining altitude, do turns keeping alltitude, and land on the runway (not off in the field somewhere)? If you can't do it on the simulator, you won't be able to do it at the field. The whole purpose of the simulator is to learn to stay with the aircraft and not behind it. The skills you learn on it will directly transfer to the field. With 40 years of flight experience both as a Naval Aviator and a test pilot, I know having spent hundreds of hours in them.

If you beginners followed my advice, you'd be doing more flying, less training, and less bashing. For example, I arrived at the field today 8 o'clock sharp. The winds were so fierce I could hardly maintain my balance and one gust blew my cap over into the next county! Nevertheless, I left the field around 5 o'clock after using up 3/4 of a gallon of glow fuel. I do have one advantage flying on a Monday Everyone is at work, so I have the field to myself. The moral? Quit your job and fly!

Ciao,

Eagle Al

Audie

Hmm. Thanks for the tips. To answer your question, yes. I can bring it in for an almost perfect, if not perfect, landing everytime now on the runway, even in fairly strong gusts (10 steady, gusts to 15). The only crashes I experience anymore are probusters caused by the bounce of doom, but I installed DuBro low bounce wheels and I have gotten better (Almost 100%) at pulling out of a bounce so I expect the problem will not be quite as bad at the field, still, perhaps my future club's name, Loveland Propbusters, is fitting.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Audie: Congrats on your purchase. I have the NexSTAR Select and loved flying it (still have it but have advanced a bit since last Summer).

It is very easy to fly, is very forgiving. My biggest problems were getting lined up correctly with the center line of the runway (real life not sim). The sim helped me a lot because it taught me points of reference to watch for but with the sim, the wind is pretty much constant (yes, you can change it, but not during flight, or not normally during flight because you are consentrating on flying and the unknown wind change or gust is what I'm talking about). That will change your point of reference the square pattern (downwind, base, final in definite processes). That's where the instructor comes in (this is, of course after you have done numerous figure eights, right turns, left turns, approaches at high level, simulated dead stick landings, and so on). Once you get the idea about how to use the elevator and throttle to land, and have done so about a hundred times, you will have it to the point where you will feel good about flying alone (solo attempt) and get that done. Remember that the throttle, used properly, will allow you to select the point of the touch down (rate of descent).. more throttle will extend the approach.. and so on. You probably know what I mean.

The best thing I can recommend is having the instructor hooked up via buddy box and then go from there. He may get bored, but there is one time in 10 that he will save your butt and your plane.

As far as the NexSTAR is concerned, crosswind take-offs are a bit of a pain because of the high wing dihedral, the wind will tend to grab that high side and want to flip it around so during cross winds, fast take off and control with rudder and ailerons help a lot. Once you are up a bit, you turn and gain altitude to get out of that mess (meaning that you will be high enough that you are two mistakes high and can see what is happening). Also, I usually did 10 to 12 minute flights at a time mainly because I found that my brain was getting saturated and I had to land to get my mind straight. Then, after about another 10 - 15 minutes, refuel and go back up for another 10 - 12 minute flight. There is no need to push the limits of the fuel capacity during training.. just doesn't make sense. You don't need the added burden of a for-real dead stick on your first day out. The more you gain experience, though, the longer your flights will get then you really need to set a flight timer.

Don't stop using the sim, though, it is great to practice on and you will definitely get some benefit out of flying that way.

Good luck, let us know how you make out.

Dick.

Audie

Thanks for the tips. I will be sure to keep that in mind. Although, I do have one question for you. You mentioned that the simulator does not support gusts? Mine actually does, it is under the weather options below the average wind speed. It also supports variable direction winds. Are we talking about the same simulator? Could you possibly have an older version? Or am I missing something? Thanks again.

Audie

I have another question/problem? In the simulator, I rarely, if ever, use the rudder. The only time I use it is during landings when there are heavy gusts (15-25 mph) perpendicular to the runway. I know this is wrong, somehow, but I honestly can't really see any occasion to use the rudder other than landing in heavy winds. I rely almost entirly on the ailerons and the elevator. Can someone tell me how I should be using the rudder so my instructor won't have to waste his/her time by giving me the basics of flight? Thanks.

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

audie, the rudder is used in turns sometimes too and they call it coordinatiing your turns, i personally don't use it yet for turns, but plan to ask about it soon. On landing it is good you used your rudder because thats what you do on landings is use it to keep yourself straight and ailerons for levelness. You have to remember that when you touchdown on landings, you are rudder only, so thats how you taxi and get out of the way..

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

Using rudder is the only way to land properly in a cross wind. I also had learned to fly without using the rudder. It took a while to break those bad habits. As you know, when it comes time for aerobatics, the rudder suddenly becomes much more important.

On your trainer, I would practice flying rudder-only once in a while, including landing. Also practice using a little rudder with aileron while turning. It will make your turns smoother. A long time ago, I once forgot to connect the aileron on my trainer yet landed safely.

Since you dont have any bad habits yet... Now is the time to prevent them. Good luck with flying the real thing! You're gonna love it!

shakes268

Hi Audie,
I have a Nexstar also. It's a nice flying plane, just take offs can get a little hairy. I practiced on the sim quite a bit and when I first flew, the controls felt natural since I had spent so much time on the sim.

The one thing though that the sim, even with its simulated wind gusts can't really do a good job of is landing from what I've found. The real plane's wings are going to not be near as steady as on the sim when coming in. You'll have to constantly be correcting ailerons to level the wings. Granted, they usually are minor corrects but you still need to be ready for anything.

Also, you can EASILY three point a landing on the sim. I was doing just that when practicing landings on the sim before I ever made an actual landing. This translated into a BOUNCE when I landed the real plane from the habits I picked up on the sim. I had no idea how to really flair because the sim didn't teach me that. Make sure your main gear touch first before the nose. Once you get to the runway and about 3ft off the ground, keep the nose up and it will float right in at that attitude - touching on the mains then the front nose wheel will settle in. The sim just can't give you the same experience as a real landing but using it to get used to controls and see how the plane reacts to inputs is great!

wrig0335

Audie,

I think the Nexstar is a great trainer. The speed brakes (flaps, whatever you want to call them), really do slow it down quite a bit for the initial flights/landings. Sounds like you are on the right path with the sim practice and joining a club.

One note on the Sim... I have spent a lot of time on it, and one thing that never fails is that I can't get lined up on the runway. I think it has to do with the fact that you have no peripheral vision on the sim. Plus, when you are flying the downwind leg and if you are somewhat close and a bit high (like I usually fly the pattern in real life), you have absolutely no visual reference to the ground. I think this makes it a lot harder to land on the simulated runway, as opposed to at the field, where it was really easy for me to line up on it. I can fly and land on the runway all day, but have problems with it in the sim.

I added a bomb release to my Nexstar just between the landing gear, and it was a TON of fun. I have flew it quite a bit on skis in the winter. Had planned on putting it on floats this summer, and had modified it for flaps and dual aileron servos. I really didn't like the dual servo setup. It rolled quicker, but regardless of how I set it up it just wouldn't fly as well as before. However, I probably could have gotten it right if I didn't lose a battery mid-flight and auger it straight in at full throttle from high altitude The landing gear might loosen up over time (there's a lot of posts on this), but other than that, it was a great plane. Moral of the story: not only do I think it was an excellent trainer, but I still loved flying it when I moved on to other planes.

Good luck and keep us posted!

-Pat-

mrbass111

heres my 2 cents, i have bought and trained on the nexstar. i had about 6 hours on the sim before i went with my trainer for buddy box training. the sim will help you with the control imputs. but it will not help much with takoffs and landings. takeoffs can be hairy due to a loose nose gear. do not hook up the flight correction stuff. and do not train with the speed brakes (flaps). the plane have pleanty enough lift with out them and my trainer found they gave the plane way to much lift. had to trim alot of down elevator into the plane just to get it to fly right. thus so when you take them off you have to re trim the elevators again. so i wouldent bother with them. i would count on about 10 mins. of flight time could go 12 but ide play it safe. besure to train on calmer days. the plane is a floater and can be quite tricky to land in a stiff wind. leave the wing tips on untill youve soloed and are comforatable with the plane.

Eagle Al

You people are quite incorrect! My plane (US40) will bounce quite nicely on FMS if I do a poor landing. Also who says you have to line up with the runway if you want to practice cross wind landings? Of course you can adjust or change the wind's direction.

Also I can see you don't understand the role of power and pitch in landing. You control the sink rate (vertical rate of descent) with power. If you're sinking too fast add power or too slow, reduce it. Pitch controls airspeed. If the airspeed it too fast, pull up the nose or too slow, lower it. The idea of landing is to have the wing stall just as the wheels touch the ground hopefully somewhere on the runway and not off in the weeds.

There are two ways to land in a crosswind. First turn into the wind with the ailerons and then level the wings. Essentially the aircraft is crabbed into the wind. Just at the point of touch down, align the aircraft with the runway with a turn and then leveling the winds.

The next way is to do an aileron roll into the wind and then kicking the rudder in the opposite direction. Here the airplane is rolled over into the wind but still aligned with the runway. This is called a slip.

Finally, if you flight environment is still too tame dial up the winds and gusts. There is no need to pay attention to the parmeters. Dial in amounts that challenge your ability and confidence.

Here's some reading:

http://godscopilot.com/_flight-07_CD.htm

Ciao,

Eagle Al

Audie

Thanks for the information, everyone. I am certain it will come in handy at the field. If anyone should have any thing else to add, please, feel free to post it. Like I said, I want my first flights to be successful flights, and I think that through your knowledge I can make that happen.

Also, Eagle, thanks for posting the correct process to land in a strong cross wind, I was actually already doing something very similar. It is good to see that I was close to being right (In the sim, anyway. It remains to be seen how I do with the real thing).

mrbass, I don't think I will remove the air brakes just yet. The simulator has them installed and I think it would be unwise to change the flight characteristics of the real thing before gaining some flight time at the field after practicing in the simulator for so long. Still, I appreciate your comments, and I do plan on removing them when I think I am ready, just not yet.

wrig, it is interesting you should mention that you have difficulty in landing on the runway in the sim. I had the same problems until about the 5th hour in the sim, after that I was able to line up about 95% of the time. What I do is concentrate on the shado beneath the plane in addition to the plane itself. Although, I do agree with you, the simulator does lack peripheral vision, which, I am sure, will have a strong effect on my landings. I will be sure to keep a close eye on the landing gear. I have seen, and heard, countless tales on forums and reviews across the internet about wayward landing gear, I don't intend for the same thing to happen to me.

warhwk, I will be sure to use only the rudder several times in the simulator. Heh, although, that will bring back bad memories of my first RC plane, a 2 channel .049 Cox EZ-Bee. Heh, that was the worst remote control experience I have ever had. I hope I never have to see another one of those evil abominations again.

Pilot Chad, thanks for the information. Whenever I do use the rudder I always use (Or try to anyway) the ailerons to keep her level. Especially on landings.

By the way, what is the AMA? I checked the AMA forum but found little more than petty political bickering on the evil of park fliers and how the hobby is doomed to die a horrendous, yet rapid, death due to a constantly dropping membership, FAA restrictions, evil, galaxy destroying park fliers, accidental collisions, alien abductions, "old people" , poor leadership, a plague of locusts o'er the land and a secret conspiracy by the governments of the world. Normally, I wouldn’t really concern or associate myself with an organization that seems to have so many internal conflicts and be so universally hated, but it doesn’t seem like I will have much of a choice. The club I plan on joining seems to require an AMA license to fly. [] Still, I suppose I might as well make the best of this situatation.

Oh, one more thing, is there anyone from the Loveland propbusters (near Cincinnati, Ohio) on this forum?

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

Anywho, the AMA is the Academy of Model Aeronautics...its basically a secondary insurance in case a accident happens invoving radio controlled aircraft...

HTH

Audie

That is quite difficult with a trainer, isn't it? With some more practice on the simulator though, I think I should be able to do inverted flight quite well. The good, I suppose, news though is that I should have several more months of simulator time due to the fact that I am still in debt from my plane and do not have the funds required for the club membership and the AMA membership. [] However, I certainly won't be doing this with my real plane when I do finally get the chance to fly it, its just too risky.

warhwk

My Feedback: (3)

Introductory membership is less than $20 the first year. https://www.modelaircraft.org/trialmemberapp.aspx

I don't know the requirements for your club, but most clubs I have been associated with only require the person holding the main transmitting device to be a club member. In other words, if you are on a buddy box with a club member, you could be flying sooner than you think.

red head

Don't pay to much attention to what the guys are saying about the AMA in the forums. Go to the AMA web site and then to the club and make up your own mind. Some of that stuff in the forums is just garbage. As we all know some people would complain about something just to be complaining. Make up your own mind and ENJOY!!!!!
Red

jessiej

Good advice indeed. Also bear in mind that many of the best RC flyers around became great flyers well before the first simulators came on the market. Come to think of it, I suppose the same could be said to apply to full scale as well, Dolittle, Yeager, etal.

One can learn to fly without assistance. Not as easily as with a competent instructor, but it can be done. In fact it can be done solo ,with the proper airplane, easier, and at less expense, than with an incompetent instructor. The primary concern should be to put no one at risk.

jess