Alright, I've been reading on here for a few weeks now about trainer planes, sizes, radios, etc. I think this was brought up before, and I do remember vaguely a reply, but here goes anyways. I'm new to the hobby, I want to get a trainer, and I'll be at a club sometime to choose radio equipment. But here's what I wonder? Do I build it from a kit, or buy it ARF? I have a 40 day winter break from college, so time will be in plenty. BUT I'm totally new at this, and would that increase my chances of making a mistake, (no matter how minute) on the building that would effect the planes flight? I was thinking on this, but I thought I'd throw this out there to the people that know!

Thanks!

There are as many answers to that question as there are people.

I have seen beginners go both ways. A lot depends on factors like, if you haven't built before, then you are going to have to start getting together tools, building board, etc. This is much less of a problem with ARF's. Also, if you haven't done it before, will you have someone, say an experienced flyer that you can call on for tips and help as you go? On the other hand, once you have built one you have a good bit of knowledge that can be applied to the maintenance, upkeep and repair of a plane - and yes, they all require this to some extent.

Another consideration is, if you build it are you going to be so wrapped up in it and afraid of breaking something that you won't want to fly it? I have seen this happen. This depends on your personality, so you will have to answer that.

Over the last couple of years at our club, I have seen the new flyers that I instruct going more and more to ARF's on their first pland and building their second. The reasoning being is that they more quickly have a plane ready to go to begin their flight lessons.

Again, it helps to visit the local club and ask around to see what the experience of some of the new members has been.

Just my $0.02. Hope it helps some.

Take care and I hope all your RC experiences are going to be great ones.

If you have the time and interest, you should build your trainer from a kit. The tools required aren't much more than those required by an ARF. Either way you're going to need glues, drills, knives, and clamps. You should have a good building surface either way as well.

The benefits of building your first airplane are without limit. Not only will you have a greater understanding of your airplane, but you'll learn valuable skills that will grow and develop as you progress in the hobby. There's no easier type of model to build than a modern trainer.

Don't worry too much about mistakes. That ARF builder in China who's never seen a model fly doesn't. You'll have the comfort of knowing that each joint is glued, and that each part is properly positioned if you build it yourself. You'll learn which glues do what, and how to use them. ARFs don't teach that, and it's knowledge you'll need to have after your first mishap.

You'll learn to use covering on slab sides and a flat wing. There'll never be an easier time to learn then with a trainer kit. When it comes time to put on a patch, you'll know just what to do. That won't happen with an ARF.

A quality kit like a SIG LT-40 or Midwest Aerostar has great instructions that won't leave you in the dark. You'll find that trainer kits introduce you to building concepts and techniques, where more advanced kits will expect you to apply them without explanation. That instruction book your kit will come with will serve as a reference in future projects. ARFs will never provide you with that.

I built a Midwest Aerostar years ago, and never regretted it. Not only did I learn a lot, but I enjoyed it. Some folks might try to tell you that if you live in a cramped space you can't do anything but assemble ARFs. That's poppy-cock. A buddy of mine from when I was in the Air Force built his LT-40 in his tiny little barracks room. He had it all framed up in a week, and really enjoyed doing it.

ARFs are faster and probably a few bucks cheaper, but they are in no way as satisfying or as educational as a kit. There's no guarantee of quality with an ARF, and if the two I own are representative it's a crap shoot at best. One had loose ribs, so I had to rip the covering off and fix that. It also had a mirade of bad joints and wood that was too soft. The other ARF is a fine-flying model, but it took some work to get the wing and stab aligned properly. Most of the hardware on each of them had to be replaced, as I want them to last more than one season. If I didn't have my kit building experiences, I wouldn't have had the knowledge or skills to bring those ARFs up to a reasonable standard.

Plenty of folks get started with an ARF. They don't have any idea what they're missing.

This is as much a religious debate, on the order of Mac vs PC, as anything.

I started in the hobby in March and "assembled" an electric ARF and then an LT-40 ARF. At the time I didn't know the difference between CA and epoxy. I probably would have given up if I had tried a kit.

Your post seems to indicate you don't intend to fly until spring, so that eliminates one of the strongest arguments for ARFs, that you can get in the air much (much) faster.

That said, if you decide to go with a kit, I'd recommend several things. First, double the time estimates. Even my ARF had several "let this cure over night steps" that ended a building evening. Two, make sure you have an LHS or (more preferably) an experienced builder who can look at your plane as it progresses. The best possible situation would be where you had someone who could come over and look at it, since packing up bits and pieces and hauling them to the field or LHS is a pain in the butt.

Oh, one final thing, I felt that there was enough building involved on my LT-40 (which took me about 30 hours to finish) to give me quite a sense of accomplishment.

All in all, I would say that if you feel intimidated by the thought of building, build your SECOND kit and not your first.

GB

Small Fry,

If you have the time, and plan to get into building at some point, pick an easy-to-build kit and build it. If you are short on time, and/or don't know whether you plan to ever get into building, buy and ARF with no shame. Everyone here would probably recommend the trainer that they built, but there are many that are easy to build and fly well. I am not really in the hobby for the building, and don't have much time for it, but I can't seem to make myself buy a plane that someone else built, so I just take more time getting planes in the air. One thing I personally don't recommend is any of the "indestructible" so-called trainers that are made of drain pipe. Get a real high-wing trainer. My own recommendation is to get one with ailerons, but you will hear differing opinions on that also.

Good luck,

banktoturn

I would vote for the kit over the ARF. First you have the time and second when you damage your plane (and you will, I've been at it since 1953 and still do) it will be much easier for you to make repairs knowing what is in it and how it was built.

I would recommend something with four channels like the LT-40.

Pick up an LT40 kit. The design is strong, has good ground handling and is a stable flyer. Don't worry about if you can get it together. The parts are cut to fit and notch into each other before you need to add glue. This pretty much assures that the plane will go together fairly straight and fly well. The parts are also numbered and/or labeled and have a picture of each part in the instructions so that you can tell what you are supposed to be looking for. The instructiuons are numbered and have check boxes beside each instruction that you tick off as you go along. This keeps you from getting lost the next day when you quit for the night. In short, you don't need to know how to build a plane. You just need to be able to follow instructions and in a few weeks you have a plane that is built and ready to cover. It does take some time but the building is straight forward and when its done you won't believe that you built it yourself.

Thanks for all the replies! I've also wondered what "LT" stood for? I cant make it to a hobby shop very often (actually I've never been there!) because I live on campus and dont go home much, and I KNOW there isnt one around here, so I dont know what some (actually a lot) of the abbreviations mean.

Sorry, we forget what its like starting out that a new flyer probably doesn't know about the names of the planes. The LT40 is made by a manufacturer called Sig. LT40 is the name of the plane and I think it is supposed to mean Light Trainer. You can order one from a mail order outfit called Tower Hobbies. You can see the web address below. Hope this helps.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXFG11&P=7

And LHS means your "Local Hobby Shop"

And by all means, build a kit. The ones suggested are as easy as "Put tab "A" into Slot "B".

Another advantage to kits is this... The ribs (for example) are die-cut from a sheet of wood. So you get a sheet of wood with several ribs cut in it (see picture). You want to save some of these pieces. They come in handy for scrap when you need to make repairs, and they can be used as templates in case you ever have to "Re-make" a part.

Minnflyer,
I was wondering where you were, when I read the question was a kit vs. an ARF!!!
I hardly have the experience most of these guys do, but I do have to absolutely agree to go with a kit. I don't know your background, but I am a finance guy that pretty much just played sports growing up. Having said that, not only will a trainer kit be easier to construct, it will be more forgiving of your (minor) errors when it is time to fly (than more advanced planes/kits). I definitely needed that. Your building skills will just naturally get better as you go along, so when you get to building something you are real proud of, you'll have the skills. Good luck with it!!!
By the way, where are you going to store a plane, living on campus??

Thanks again for the replies. I wont build ANY planes on campus, nor will I store them here. I live 30 min from my house, but I dont usually go home often because I play football and the weekends are shot. In the spring time is when I intend to go to the clubs to be taught how to fly, and on the weekends, I'll fly at home or the club. I dont think there's even enough space to fly up here, the campus is hilly, and has a lot of trees (westminster college if you're familar). I'll do my flying at home. My dad just moved his entire shop into a 9000 sq. ft. building, so his old shop will be my new place to build planes! Looks like most of the people here are leaning towards the kit to start. That's great for me because my dad (who used to fly planes himself) said half the fun is building them and covering them! I like to build anyways, I think building a plane that works will be a great feeling! I cant wait to start!

ps, just checked out the website, that's a pretty good looking plane!

The very first plane I built was my trainer. I never built a model plane before but I have a lot of wood working experience. Because of being careful, gathering the necessary tools, etc., it took me about 7 weeks to put it together. That wouldn't exactly fit in you 40 day window. If you want to get into the sport and learn to fly in your fourty days, get an ARF. IMHYAO, get the Avistar from Hobbico.

The Avistar ARF is a good choice, my dad bought one, and 2 evenings its was ready to fly. If you buy an ARF make sure you re glue everything that you can reach with your hands. I built my first 2 planes, the first of which I hurried on and didnt fly that great, the second, a trainer, I took my time on and it flys great. Theres just something about building one then seeing if fly that changed my mind on building vs. ARF. If you want to build a kit, I would recommend the Tower Trainer 40, its low cost and easy to build.

Go for the ARF.. you're studynig..playing football on weekends .. can't buid every day.. the plane is 30 min away sotred at home (I've the impression that if you follow this hobby your folks will see more of you )
So wiht limited time (and budget.. I suggest you go for the ARF which you can put together in 2-3 weekends in between football ... and use the 40 day break to fly !!!

Best regards,
patrick

That 40 day break happens during winter in Ohio. Not a great time to learn to fly, what with the wind, snow, and cold.

trainers are not only to help the learning process of flying but also of building,the instructions prints and wood is geared to learning to build a plane ,building is similar to fly as each plane is a step up in the learning curve. If you start building at the second or third plane then you will not understand all the drawings or the parts,mistakes that you can get away with on a trainer,while building,can be a disaster on later models,my .02 is build the first three or four planes before a arf.
Have a goodun,John.

is the perfect 1st plane.
Yes, you will have to buy a few hand tools, iron, and heat gun, but if you intend to take up this hobby, you will need these and when you have an uh ohh, they will be right there waiting for you and you will be PERFECTLY ready to use them.
Its really not hard to build these trainer birds if you have a fair amount of horse sence.
PLEASE, consider converting this kit to a tail dragger, its alot more satisfying in the long run.
By all means get some help from an instructor and look forward to the greatest hobby youve ever imagined!

Just my 2 penneis worth.
Happy fliin!!!!!!!!!

By jeebies, you little whippersnapper, don't you know you must cut your own tree down and start from scratch! an' don't be usin' none of that dagburn plastic stretchie cover'n neither! Why? 'cause that's the way we've done it since the 40's! I think I'll load up the wagon and head fer the flyin' field to fly my warped, puckered up old timer.

Another question. what is the difference in engines? I notice that some go with LA engines, others ABC. I dont even know if there is a difference, if there is, what is it?

LA engine is a non bearing ,has bushings,engine manf. by OS,ABC is a non ringed engine,an ABC engine will break in faster,but when it wears out the piston and sleave will need to be replaced,the ringed takes longer to break in but seems to handle dusty fields better,do not break them in the same,as far as which is better,an ABC or ring,I think about the same,the bushing engine is less money ,less upkeep,and less HP.
Have a goodun,John.

Hi,
LA's are cheapo bottome line budget engines. I wouldnt go with them unless you couldnt decide on anything else. Thunder Tiger makes several very nice engines, they have a GP line, which is plain bearing, and a PRO line, which is ball bearing. Preferable to the GP line. For a 40 size trainer, I would suggest a Thunder Tiger 46GP or pro, (depending on your budget), an OS 46FX, or 40FP if you can find one (no longer made, but VERY reliable and well made). I'm sure I left out other brands or models, but pretty much all new engines are made in Ball bearing, or plain bearing (bushing) styles.
ABC stands for "aluminum-brass-chrome". These are a little more expensive, most often ball bearing (BB), make more power, and are more reliable. Enya makes nice ABC engines, but are hard to come by now.

As for building -vs- buying an ARF for you first plane, If you only have 40 days to screw with building and flying, I would highly recommend buying an arf, as it would take you a good while to build, install radio gear, engine, and setup your first plane from a kit. A good $100 ARF (of which there are many), should only take you a few evenings to build. I've gotten to where I can assemble one in a few hours.
As a beginner, you have a high probability of crashing your first plane, even if you use a buddy box and have an instructor. If your plane survives with the instructor, you may crash it soon after you solo, due to mechanical failure, or you just getting disoriented...You may even crash two planes before you truly get the hang of flying. I've seen it happen, I even crashed a couple.
What I'm getting at is this; When you spend so many hours pouring your time, blood and tears into building a plane, and see it crash, it can really bum you out! Thats why ARFS are so popular! Dont let this discourage you, crashing is part of the game, We've all done it many times! But learn from our mistakes and buy an arf as your first plane! Dont get me wrong, Kits are awesome, but IMHO, they are better suited as second planes, your next step up after a trainer. By then you will have much more experience all around the hobby, and you will enjoy building a kit more than you would now.

Thats just my spare change, Hope it helped shed some light for you

This is true. I intend to still build though, I might get the kit over Thanksgiving, and build it over Christmas. I cant fly during the time over break because... well it's cold out! haha Speaking of... is it possible to fly a plane in the winter time? Throw some skies on it, and let'er rip? haha, maybe not?
But seriously, crashing is part of the game, I know this. If it's rebuildable, then that's what I'll do. Hopefully I wont auger it in to a point where it's unfixable. I just cant wait to get going! Seeing as though I will have some time before I can ACTUALLY fly, I can afford different things at different times. So I kind of want to get on my way with this hobby, so maybe a 6 channel computer Tx, and a (you fill in the blank) engine? I definately want to be able to use it on other planes.

Thanks!

Yes, Skis are done in winter, But I think Ground control is more difficult.

A JR XP662 channel radio is a great choice, I've flown both Futaba and JR, I prefer JR's easier to program equipment. I wont go further there, thats a whole 'nother bag-o-worms there! Alot of it is personal preference.

As for the engine, I would highly recommend an OS 46FX. It is quite powerful, power to get out of trouble, very reliable, and has a remote needle to keep fingers out of props. I have several of these engines, I prefer them over other brands and OS models. For that matter, it's an excellent choice for any 40-46 size plane, so interchangeability is no problem! You can often find them used here on RCU for around $70. They retail at LHS for around $120.

Sounds like your set! Get to building!

How much does a JR XP662 channel radio cost roughly? Just out of curiousity...

also, is there a website for JR that I can look at their products?