Some ppl say that its best to start whit a Trainer but some say that I can use a Cap or Extra because they are just at easy to fly. Now Im thinking on buying a AT6 from Vmar. Is that a good plane to fly when you only have about 40 min of flying behind you. What is the best Warbird to use as the newxt step. I love warbirds but dont know how they are to fly...

Save your self some money and start with a trainer. I would not suggest that anyone get a Warbird as there first plane. I would suggest an Hobbico Avistar if you want something that will allow more than a basic trainer would.

get a trainer,I recommend a flat bottom wing,easier to fly and recover from a mistake,some start with the Avistar,it's not a first time trainer, it's a first time aerobatic trainer,not as stable as a flat bottom wing. War birds and aerobatic planes are usually the third or fourth plane in the learning curve.
Have a goodun,John.

What a lot of people tend to forget is that being able to fly an airplane around the field does not mean that you are a good pilot. You may be able to control the plane in a nice rectangular pattern, or do "figure eights" around the field, but what do you do when you make the inevitable mistake? Do you get yourself out of trouble, or do you "dumb-thumb" it into the ground? 99 out of 100 rookies will will just compound the mistake by panicking, and making the wrong corrective move, and wind up bringing their airplane home in little bitty pieces.

A good analogy here is to think of a teenager (YOUR TEENAGER) who just got his drivers license. Now, he wants to drive YOUR FERRARI! He thinks he knows how to drive. After all, the State just gave him a license saying so. But YOU know better! You know that he can control a car, at a moderate speed, but can he AVOID an accident should the situation arise? Probably not. Is he aware that such a powerful engine in such a well engineered chassis will respond much differently than the old Toyota that he learned on? So you tell your teenager: "No, you can't drive the Ferrari."...

And then you go out and buy a model airplane that you are not ready for.

I have a soft spot for warbirds too. Why not "Pay your Dues" with a Cub dressed in the L-4 colors?

There are three things to consider if you want to by-pass a trainer: a. quality of the instructor as he will be having an added responsiblity, b; do not overpower the plane which means learn to fly not ot chase after an engine with wings and c. reduce the control throws to mak the plane easier to control.
Having said that, don't push it by getting a Cap or Edge they're fully aerobatic, instead get a low wing or shoulder wing plane (too bad the skvista is discontinued); some that come to mind are:
- World Model's Super Sport ($100.00)
-Great Planes Easy Sport US$ 124.00

A bit hotter are
- sig's 4*40
- Goflberg's Tiger 2

My choice of you want to by pass the trainer woudl be the World models Super Sports, at 100 bucks the price can't be beat for the quality, ithas trike gear like a trainer.

wiht practice, and if you already have some flights under your belt this plane can go along ways to help you get a warbird after this one

Regards,
Patrick

Thank you for your advice. I go on with my Graupner Trainer 400 for a while and then I try out an AT6 Texan from Vmar. I was told it was a great trainer to fly and get lots of time in the air for those who want to go on with war birds. The AT6 from Vmar have flaps if you want to and a big wingspan of 1550cm and will fly nice with a 46 engine.

Thanks again for your help.

ya can't beat a sig kadet...no matter how well ya fly these are still great for anytime flying. IMHO -Tinman-

By all means, don't for get the trash bag for the AT 6,SAVES BUNCH OF WALKING.
Have a goodun,John.

is the Hobbico Avistar. It's a good plane to learn on and it also is a good "next step up". In other words.... you won't get bored with it.

Just do yourself a favor and get with an instructor. He/she will be able to give you pointers and will help you learn to fly your plane.

Just my 2 cents.....

Best regards,
Mike

Get a trainer and learn from there.

Don't make the mistake of trying to learn to fly with an airplane which is way to advanced for a learner.

I've seen it happen, the learner brings out the super plane they always wanted. You try to gently nudge them over to the trainer. Even have a member volunteer their trainer to fly with a buddy box for that first flight to get the feel. Only to have the learner ignore all advice and fire the super plane up.

Then after a the balsa has stopped falling and the air is silent, to watch the learner slowly go pick up the shattered remains of their once proud super plane. Quietly put the pieces in a garbage bag, and the garbage bag into the back of their vehicle, slowly drive off. NEVER TO BE SEEN AGAIN!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!!! It can be avoided with a trainer and a good instructor.

My 2 cents. BTW, Welcome to the Worlds Greatest Hobby!

How much time with a trainer is recommended before going on with a low wing airplane? Ive got 40-50 min active flying practice starts and landings. Making loops I think was the easy part of flying. Making a nice landing is harder. I removed the nose tire on my Trainer and moved the main landing gear forward and made it more fun landing, but harder to turn on the ground.

I removed the nose tire on my Trainer and moved the main landing gear forward and made it more fun landing, but harder to turn on the ground.

Did you add a tail wheel to the rudder?

Actually.... 40 to 50 minutes of flight time is not enough. IMHO.. taking off is the easy part. Getting the plane on the ground is the hard part. You need to get with an Club instructor and learn to control the plane in all asp[ects of flight, from take off to landing. And to be able to handle any problems that arise. (Is the plane out of trim? OOPS! The engine quit.... now what?!?)

Just my 2 cents.....

Regards,
Mike

40-50 minutes is one day at the field. Put in a few months, and you'll be ready to confidently move to the AT-6. If you're having trouble landing the trainer, you obviously aren't ready to land the AT-6.

Now I have been out training on and what I noticed was if I have done a hard landing the nipple in the fuel tank turned and when I then was taking of again the engine stop, I did as I was tad to do when flying real airplanes, just bringing it down easy, don’t trying to turn. I also tried turning of the engine during flying. I made the best landing ever. Well, I will do as you all tell me and not what the others in my club say. I will go on training with my Trainer and try to get lots of hours in the air. Thank you all for your advice.

I got my self a VMAR AT6 now. I know some of you think I should go on with my trainer but I got it realy cheap. It want so hard to fly. It has i big wing and pretty small fuselage. Think its a nice plane to have as a warrbird trainer....

As and instructor at our field I have a little experience with people in your position. First off, an instructors job isn't finished when the pilot makes their solo flight. I am still out there with my student to help them when they get into a situation that they don't know how to handle. And most times when a student moves up to their second plane, I will help them in assembling it correctly, trim flight it for them, and then put them on the buddy box for their first flight on that new plane. But that's just how I like to teach people. I don't like to see people get frustrated with the hobby and leave because they tried to move to quickly to more advanced planes.

As for the question at hand. How long should you spent on the trainer?? My advice to my students is fly it till the covering falls off. I advise them the spend whole days of doing nothing but touch and gos. Then do nothing but go up, cut the throttle, and dead stick it. etc....... IMHO it makes for a pilot that is fully prepared for anything in this hobby.

and just because you have your AT-6 doesn't mean you can't still fly your trainer till you are ready to move up. It's always better to wait till you are ready, then bring that warbird home in a garbage bag.

Just my 2-1/2 cents worth

As RCKEN sez,plus should be doing basic aerobics with out to many problems,loops,rolls,inverted flight,snaps,spins,dead stick landing,figure 8's,cuban 8's,even then I advise having the instructor stand by with the next plane.Not all pilots listen,until it's to late,I have a large stack of pictures from crashes,most are where students left the trainer to soon and next plane was a little to much. At our club if you can take off,land ,turn,loop,roll,deadstick land,then you are a pilot,my .02,that's not enough,but again I'm not a genius,just an old pilot with lots of stick time.
Have a goodun,John.

Well, now the winter is coming in realy fast. 4 month of rain and heavy winds så there will not be much flying during winter time. Ive been thinking of getting a electric trainer cos whe have lots of space at work to fly on. Any tip on a good electric trainer that I can trand landings on.... We have a indoor football field here that I can use.
Thank you all for your advice on going on with the trainer. Some ppl here told me to get a Cap or Extra because they are just as easy to fly as long as you dont try to do advanced flying.

never flew electric so can't help,here we fly all year round.I FLY CAPS, EDGE 540,EXTRA 300L,ULTIMATE BIPES,and no, they do not handle like a second plane.Yes some people use them for second planes ,mostly they are fighting just to get them up and land in one piece,don't see much learning or fun in that,I would suggest thes planes for third planes on the learning scale. Some good second planes,Goldberg Tiger,BTE Venture 60,Sig Something Extra,Sig Mid Star 40,to name a few.
Have a goodun,John.

Henrik,

If winter is coming to you and you won't be flying I would suggest one of the simulators. I have used RealFlight G2 and FMS (the free simulator) and they have really helped my basic flying. Takeoffs (tail-draggers) and landings have been practiced without one plane being unflyable after a crash... just reset the plane and fly again.

They are not EXACTLY like flyin the real thing, but they are pretty close and do help with stick input practice (right and left mixups kill many planes) and teach you to caress the sticks instead of shoving them around.

Just as a testament to having a great instructor and a simulator to supplement... I took the sticks for the first time, on a buddy box, in late July 2002, then soloed on August 29th 2002. I flew a combat match Sept. 7th 2002 and took 2nd place in Open B out of 7 pilots. (my instructor took 1st) Then for grins and giggles I flew in the Fall IMAC (Basic class) 30 Sept., on a plane I flew for the first time 2 days before for 3 flights. It is my instructors Ugly Stick from 8 years ago that he lent to me for the IMAC. I did not win, but I did not finish in last place either.

I guess this was a long way of saying that stick time makes you better, and simulators are a great way to get stick time when you cannot get to the field for some "real" flight... hehehe.

I lot of folks forget the progressions that they've gone through. To most of us who've been doing this for a while, sport and aerobatic planes are pretty easy to fly. The reason that they seem so easy to fly is that we've built the necessary skills, relflexes, and knowledge through experience. People forget how challenging things once were, or associate the challenge with their early experiences ("My trainer was harder to fly than my 4*40").

This hobby is full of progression, and almost anyone can go as far as they desire if they take the appropriate steps.

Have to start saying sorry if my english is bad...

Ive been thinking of getting the realflight G2. My dad is going over to Edmonton over x-mas and Im thinking of asking him to buy it for me there. It cost $35 here and thats to much I think. Everything is so much cheaper over in US and Canada. A OS FS 120 SIII cost $200 more here. A Top Flite Giant P-47 cost almost $500.

Hey Henrik: I actually like to see people start with a low wing sport plane and a good instructor, for many reasons. one reason is, you get used to that trainer getting you out of trouble, it's not going to happen with a sport plane. Another is you get used to the soft movements of a trainer, then when you do move into a low wing sport plane you have a tendency to over control. So my suggestion is to get a good instructor when you get into a sport plane. Let the instructor take it up first. If you think it looks like it may be to much for you don't be to proud to use the buddy box for a couple flights. I have now seen someone totally new to the hobby take on his first flight with a 4* and although there were some hairy moments all turned out well, and this was done without a buddy box. Can't say I would be that brave with my tiger 60. As for an extra or cap, I can't say. I've heard they have some pretty wicked stall tendencies, that I know a properly built tiger 2 or 4* do not. Both of these planes have excellent slow flight and landing characteristics. Always happy to help if I can. Garry