Just read Mountaineerfan36 post and it spurred me to write. I am getting ready to get into RC Planes and I want to avoid as many mistakes as possible. I have done a lot of research and I have planned to buy a trainer and join a club here in Northern VA. I have already join the AMA and enjoy the monthly magazine.

I plan to buy a SIG Kadet LT 40 ARF with a O S AX 46 engine, though I have recently read that Evolution engines are possibly better. I wanted to originally build it from a kit but I don't really have a lot of time and I don't know how difficult it would be and what additional basic equipment I would need and the cost involved to build it. I have read reccommendations in these forums that beginners should build their planes from a kit as it would give them some knowledge on how to repair the plane after a crash, which is evitiable. I can't seem to find videos on basic modeling building from beginning to end; from understanding plans, to covering, to making sure the end product is square and soundly put together. If I were to buy a kit instead of an ARF, what can I expect in cost (approximately) to buy the equipment to build it.

I also plan to buy a Futaba 6EXAS 6 channel radio. Is this too complicated for a beginner? I am trying to avoid purchasing a 4 channel radio initially only to have to upgrade to a 6 channel radio for a second or third plane.

Am I on the right track? Are there any comments or suggestions. Please help.

Get a JR 6102(which I have), Futaba 7C, or a Hitec Optic 6, or a Airtronics RD 6000. These will have a lot of features that you can use with more advanced planes as you progress. If you want to build an airplane try to get someone from your club or someone that has experience building model airplanes to help you.

the 7c or 9c are good choices more radio then needed to begin with but you grow into it. You don't need all the functions to begin with but they are there for experimenting. I had the 6 exa and it was betwwen a four and a 7c and I was not happy with its abilities as I progressed. (I had one of the first ones so it might have changed since I had mine.) When I got into mixing the 6 exa was only partially able to do what I wanted so I had to upgrade. Before buying radio see what the instructor at the club you are learning at flies so that you will have a radio compatible with the buddy trainer system they use. lt 40 is a great choice, I have no experience with evolution but know os 46 ax is great engine and reliable from personal experience.

A six channel radio is going to add retracts and flaps. The Futaba 6exa has plenty of mixing capability unless you want to do something very advanced. V-tail, elevons, flap/elevator, and a couple others are in there. More than the basics.
You've done your research and are more aware of your radio needs. The rest of your plan is excellent.

A kit would easily cost as much as the ARF and maybe more in terms of tools. But you'll be more capable of fixing your airframe after those "hard landings". Not to mention that it's just alot of fun to build. I don't hate ARF's. I even own a couple. But the scratch/kit built airplanes are the ones I'm attached to.

In my experience, it will cost you more to build a kit than to buy the ARF version. Once you've added up the neccessary tools, glue, covering etc. it will be more, so if you want to build a kit to save money, I don't think you will. Of course, the next kit will be cheaper since you now already have all the tools, extra balsa etc.

So, you need to make that decision based on what you want out of it. There are numerous threads about ARF v.s. kit building and how most people feel more pride in their built models etc.

My first two planes (trainer and low wing trainer) were ARFs. My third plane was a kit (Somethin Extra). Personally I do find that I have more pride in the SE, however, I don't know if I would want to learn to fly on a kit built model. I might have been too nervous about crashing it given the number of hours it takes to build it.

I would suggest starting out with an ARF and then while learning on this start building your next plane as a kit.

Both the Evoloution and the OS AX are good engines. The OS a little more expensive. I have the Evolution and found it to be a good engine. I don't think you can go wrong with either engine.

-tychoc

Best advice I can offer is get and practice on a simulator:

RealFlight or Aerofly or anything... but get a simulator.


I wish that I had taken my own advice. It would have saved me a few thousand $$$.

Mr. Mack-

You're on the right track. I think the 6EXAS is a great choice. I have been flying for the past 2 years on the 6XAS, its predecessor, and find it to be a great radio.

The issue is not really having to upgrade from 4 channels to 6, because most of the planes you will fly will only need 4 channels anyway. The more important issue is the computerized features, like end point adjustments, dual rates, exponential, multiple model memory, etc. You will use those features on your first several planes. The 6EXAS offers all those features at a great price.

The Kadet is an excellent trainer and the OS .46 AX is an excellent engine. Evolutions are fine, and less expensive. I have trained someone with an Evo engine. We had a little difficulty tuning it, but that could have been for any variety of reasons.

-Scott

I agree with tychoc, purchase an ARF and get in the air. Decide what you will probably like for a second plane and start building it with no pressure to hurry. A slightly sportier high wing or a low wing trainer (Goldberg Tiger II for instance) could be a good second plane. This will all depend on how well you do with your trainer prior to it's possible demise. 6EXA or 7c series radios (or equiv in other brands) will have all of the features you will need for some time. Along with the extra channels are the elec trims, EPA, mixing and sometimes just the way it feels in YOUR hands. I think the AX is better than the Evolution but to some that is arguable too, either will work for many planes down the line if needed. I have always been a kit builder myself and enjoy it, but it does take time to do right.

You've made some choices, time for a couple more.

Welcome to our madness and RCU.

If you get an ARF now, you can been in the air and learning to fly in a few days. There are plenty of weeks left in the flying season to get accustomed to your trainer and get in some real practice if you work at it. Starting a kit at this point will significantly limit the time that you have at the controls. Doing as bruce88123 suggests and building your second plane will allow you to take your time in the winter months and have it ready to fly in the spring. You can brush up on your skills with the trainer and may be ready to move on to your second plane early next season. I prefer building my planes but an ARF has advantages in your current standing.

Lightfoot is right. Build your second one. Rebuilding trainers is quite easy. Whenever i crashed mine i took ALL parts home, and then did one thing at a time. They are like a puzzle and fit together that good. As for everything else it looks like good choices. I would prefer O.S. over Evolution. That way, not only can you get everything from one place (tower hobbies is having a big sale right now..) but you will have a good running engine. I don't have any experience with evolutions, but O.S. Makes some good ones from what i've seen.

The O.S and the Evolution are both great engines, and either would be a fine choice. I have both and have not had any troubles from either. I have also had the Sig LT-40, and it is a very good choice. The Plane is big, easy to see, flys great, and looks great.

Building is something you do because you enjoy doing it. I enjoy building alot of my Planes, but you cannot build a Plane for as cheap as what you will find it in the ARF version. The Sig LT-40 in the Kit version is a pretty good kit though I must say, and comes with a generous amount of hardware. It is fairly simple to build, and if you are thinking that maybe you would like to try your hand at building, it would be a good one to start with.

Covering does take a little bit of a knack, but I am sure you would be able to find someone who could offer you some help or tips. The Radio you have chosen will do you a good service for quite sometime until you get into advanced airplanes a couple years down the road. Sounds like you are off to a really great start, and have made some very good decisions so far. Good Luck, and welcome to the hobby!

Time for a quick reality check here. There are 3 price points for a beginner to look at for their first radio. At the lowest is a basic 4 channel, middle is the 6 channel computer, and then there's 7-9 channels.

Let's start at the top. Personally, I see very little need for anyone other than those with an unlimited budget to consider the 7 to 9 channel radio for their first plane. My reasoning is simple, it's hard for a beginner to know what they want to get out of the hobby. If you go to nearly any field over time you will discover that somewhere around 70 to 80% of the fliers never use more than 4 channels. Of those who do use more, many never get into the complicated mixes that those who would have a beginner buy a $350 plus radio say they need. So, given these issues, it's better for a beginner to save their money in the beginning and upgrade once they know they like the hobby, and are sure that the direction they want to go actually requires an advanced radio.

Next choice is one of the 6 channel computer radios. If you make note of my AMA number you can reason that I've been around the hobby for a while. While I'm far from the best pilot, I've flown in lots of situations, and a bunch of planes. In all these years, I've rarely needed more than 4 channels, and I've never had to rely on the advanced mixing that some people think is so important. I'm not saying these frills are not valuable, however, for most they are not necessary. I have a basic 6 channel computer radio, the 6EXA. I think it's great for the typical sport flier, but I wish it had memory for more than 6 planes. It's a good mix of features at a reasonable price. Similar offerings from Hitec and JR are also good values. Which one you choose is up to personal and perhaps local preferences. The advantages of this class of radio have already been mentioned.

And finally we are at the often maligned basic 4 channel radio. I personally think these are a good choice for a beginner. They are much simpler to operate, present few complications when buddy boxing, and cost significantly less money. I've already talked about the fact that many fliers never need more than 4 channels. What about the loss of those nice to have functions such as EPA that one can get with the 6 channel computer radios? In many ways, a beginner is better off without them. Things like EPA should be used for fine tuning, but the beginner doesn't know this. So, instead of learning to get the mechanical setup right and then fine tuning, EPA is used as a hammer. This just adds complexity to the poor instructor who has to figure out whether the plane is ready to maiden or not.

What about the theory that if one buys a 4 channel and then upgrades later that they have somehow wasted their money? To resolve this dilema, one merely needs to consider the cost of a typical flight pack. For a basic setup it's going to run from $90 to $150 depending on servo, receiver, and battery. The 4 channel setup, which includes one of these flight packs, typically runs $100-130. So, the beginner who starts out with a 4 channel setup wastes no money. If they don't like the hobby, the money down the drain is lower. If they do like the hobby but decide to upgrade, the flight pack they bought with their 4 channel setup can be reused with the more advanced radio they upgraded to. The 4 channel transmitter can be used as a backup in case that fancy 9 channel has a problem and needs service.

So, the bottom line is it's not a bad thing to watch the beginning budget and buy a basic 4 channel, or perhaps a basic 6 channel computer radio. Each path has it's pros and cons, it's up to each person to decide which is best for themself.

I fly with a Futaba 6XAS. I wished it had more memory, but other than that it has always done what I needed it to do. I view Radios much like I do computers. Just as soon as you spend the most on the best, a better more expensive one comes out shortly after and makes yours look obsolete. I have never really been into trying to impress anyone, so I just fly with my Futaba 6XA and am happy with it. Some of my Planes are more advanced than some people I see who are using high dollar 9 channel radios to control Planes that would do just as well under the control of a 4 channel Futaba Skysport. So I believe a person should stop and think "is this something I need", or "something I want to have to impress others with?" Don't take me wrong. There are pilots who are very advanced, and flying very advanced aircraft that make good use of the extra functions on a top of the line radio, but I think you will find that alot of people don't even know how to program there fancy 9 channel or 14mz($2100.00) radios.

I like Piper_Chucks post about the cost of a simple 4 channel radio. I built my first kit a Balsa USA Stick 40 and used a Hitec Laser 4. Three years ago it was only $119.00 just a few dollars more than a flight pack. It did offer EPA on channels 1&2. Using a 4 channel will teach you how to set up the servo linkage properly. For my second and later models I got a 6xa and use it to buddy box my trainer for others to try. My kids and brother have all made many flights that way.
On the subject of ARF vs Kit consider the tools needed ,hobby knife,CA glue,epoxy,T pins,heat gun,covering iron and building board. I find that I need the same supplies to assemble ARF's as I do to build kits except for the building board. So you will need to buy the stuff anyway.

On the radios, read what Piper Chuck wrote. On the engine, the Evo engines are a mixed bag. Some run like they are supposed to out of the box and some run like crap. I bought a 60 size Evo and pulled it off the plane after 5 flights. It never did run right and I haven't had the time to goof around with some more, maybe later. I love OS engines! I recently bought a 46AX to see if it was as good as my 46FX. From the way it runs and the power it puts out, its even better! Same power or a bit more with a bit smoother idle. Ran great out of the box. For the price difference I would go for the AX over the Evo any day! On the plane, the LT40 is an outstanding trainer. If you go the kit route you can't go wrong. The parts are numbered and/or labeled and precut out to notch into each other. The instructions are numbered so that you just check off the boxes as you go along. There are lots of pictures so that you are sure which part you should be working with. The downside is that the plane is quite large and it does take some building time. Also by the time you add in the cost of covering and extra glue the ARF is actually cheaper. If you want to start flying this summer you won't have time to complete the kit before the weather turns to crap. You would have to get an ARF. If you do get the ARf, at least make sure that you second plane is from a kit. You miss out on a lot of basic knowledge by not building a kit. I see it all the time when a new flyer "bumps" his ARF trainer in too hard and breaks a piece off. Then the guy is going around asking other pilots to help him glue the piece back on! Hope this helps.[8D]

I'll throw in my thoughts here as well.

I started with a NexStar - all in kit that was a RTF. I thought it was a great way to get into the sport. Everything was there - including the 4 channel radio/engine and I simply had to snap on the tail and wings and was ready to fly. Great for a newbie.

I flew that plane for about 5 months, first on the buddy box, then solod, then proceeded to get disoriented once and drilled it into the ground.

My point is this....several people at my club told me that your trainer is a "throw-away" plane...you will either crash or you will outgrow it. When I heard that, I first took that as the more mature flyers just being a little insensitive, but I too learned. Unfortunately, I succumbed to the former and drilled it into the ground and it hurt - my feelings and pocket book, but it was nice since I didn't have tons of hours invested in building it.

I have replaced it with a Sky Raider ARF from World Models - cause it was cheap - $67 and I didn't think I was ready for the step up plane and I'm building a T-craft that's just about finished which I will fly after I spend some time with my Sky Raider.

My point is this...I hope you don't do what I did and turn your trainer into confeti, but if you do, you'll be glad you didn't spend loads of time building it. In my case, a few dollars was easier to shell out than another 60+ hours building another kit.

Also, I'm no expert pilot, but my 4 channel Futaba cheapie that came with the NexStar is a great TX - I don't think I'll have a need to upgrade at least for a year or so.

Good luck on your decision and I hope my experience helps a little.

Scott

I'm going to disagree a little bit. There is no reason to consider a trainer as a throw away plane. Yes, it will get damaged or even crashed. But that can be repaired and put the plane back in the air.

As far as outgrowing their trainer.. Most "think" they have outgrown their trainer and "need" to move up, when most of the time they haven't spent enough time on their trainers. A trainer is capable of a lot more then most will give it credit for.

And if you ask, yes I still have my trainer and I've been flying for 9 years now. I still take it out to the field every now and then to fly it. It's really fun doing aerobatics with a trainer.

All I am saying is don't consider the trainer to be expendable.

Ken

I still like my trainers and fly them often even after 25+ years of RC. ENJOY !!! RED

I actually have a Tower Hobbies Trainer kit in my closet that I'm planning on building later this year. I'm going to build it and do a build thread/how-to article on it hoping to show people getting into the hobby that building isn't as hard as they think. I'm also thinking about covering it in transparent monokote colors so I can keep using it as a teaching tool for new pilots. With the transparents they can see "inside" the plane to see the working parts, and to also see the structural components of a plane. And you can bet that I'll be flying it a lot after it's built too!!

Ken

I wanted to comment on the radios first. I use a JR 421ex. I think this is an excellent radio to start with. It is computer programed, but not so complex as to have you sitting on your living room floor scratching your head reading the instruction manual. Second, it has a two model memory so it will be good for the first few planes you get. Third, it is actually a 5 channel model (the fifth channel for any aux item you might want like retracts). I'll be building my third model in a few months and plan on getting the JR 9303. I figure I shouldn't have to buy any more radios for myself, but I'm also at the point where I want to add more features to my planes like retracts, flaps, etc.

On engines, I use an OS .40LA on my LT-40. This has provided enough power for just about anything I've wanted to do with the plane. I'm still relatively junior at flying so in the future I may want to upgrade to a .46. A guy at my local flying club has an LT-40 with an OS .46 in it, and it has almost NO take off roll! One other point to consider is at higher altitudes you would probably want a bigger engine. My .40 just didn't have the OOMPH when I few it in Colorado.

I love having a couple old Trainers around to fly, but I just like to fly no matter what it is! Here are some photos of a few of my Trainers that I have been proud to own.

Yea I will always keep a trainer around. My Stick 40 needs some work now and I plan to build a LT 40 taildragger for my son to learn on. I think it flys better than my stick. I have flown my stick with skis in the snow and would like to try floats on it. So don't ever think of your trainer as a thow away plane. If you want to check your abilties after years of flying let a real good pilot fly your trainer and he can show you things that will amaze you and make you practice your skills.

I agree, you are on the right track I also have a Futaba 6exa that works fine for me although I wish it had a mix for dual elevator servos.
The OS 46FX would be a good choice but I would stay away from the Evolution engines there are only a few people at our club with these some have ran well other did not. OS engines are expensive so if you want to save a few dollars on the engine I would recomend Super Tigre other people have had luck with some of the "OS clones" made by Magnum or Tower but I have never used them. No matter what brand of engine you choose pick stay in the .46-.50 range because it is a more versitle size and will have more uses in future aircraft than the .40.

I fly a six servo giant scale decahtlon with a futaba 6exa and don't have any real complaints. Model naming would have been nice ( the new ones now have this) and not having a mix for my dual elevators was a bit of a drag, but I would have had to by a 9CAF /CAP to get that mix. So instead of spending $499 I bought a $10 dollar reversing y-harnesses.

MAN FOR A BEGINNER YOU'RE SHARP. THE LT 40 IS A GREAT TRAINER. THE OS 46 AX GOES WELL WITH IT.
IF YOU PLAN ON STICKING WITH THE HOBBY I WOULD RECOMMEND A COMPUTERIZED RADIO SO YOU CAN PROGRAM IN MORE THAN 1 AIRCRAFT THAT WAY YOU'RE NOT CHANGING TRIMS WITH EACH PLANE YOU FLY.
AS FOR A CLUB TRY THE FREDERICKSBURG AEROMASTERS IN STAFFORD COUNTY VA. GOOGLE SEARCH IT.. SEE IF YOURE CLOSE ENOUGH. WE OFFER FREE INSTRUCTION EVEN PAST THE POINT YOU SOLO IF YOU DESIRE IT.. DUES ARENT BAD 40 A YEAR PLUS A 1 TIME FEE OF 50.