I was just wondering. Beginners come in to the 'Beginners' forum and ask the same question: I want to learn how to fly but I don't want to use an instructor. What plane should I buy?"

The obvious answer, to me anyway, and to several others in this forum is "Well, buy the cheapest one you can because, without an instructor, you will be replacing it on short order, and possibly several times until you either run out of money, or patients, or both!"

Why would someone NOT want to use an instructor?

Availability? That has been discussed before, and most areas have clubs with available instructors.

No club? Well, that could be, but doesn't seem likely. There are clubs all over the country, the world for that matter, that have willing and able instructors. I was in England a couple summers ago and was working with an engineer that was into RC. I was just starting out in RC flying, and we discussed my going with him to fly. So, we did, and I was absolutely delighted at the number of people that were willing to help. I went so far as to buy a plane and worked with an instructor while there. It definitely helped me when I returned to the 'colonies' (as they put it, all in jest of course), and I was very appreciative of their help.

Cannot afford a club or AMA membership? That too has been bounced around with the same results: you cannot afford NOT to join at least the AMA to protect both yourself and any property you are likely to destroy with a crash into someone's car window, or house, or even worse, into some other innocent bystander. And most clubs REQUIRE joining the AMA.

Any more reasons?

Add em on, guys (oops.. girls too!! !!!)

DS.

Pride/ego - Some people just have to say they did it on their own.

Shy - Some people don't like to look foolish in front of others. Note that this is different from the pride one.

Uninformed - Many are under the impression that there are no instructors nearby or that they will cost too much.

Unfriendly club - Unfortunately, some clubs do not exactly welcome new people with open arms. Faced with such a club, it's not hard to see why a beginner might conclude that they would be better off on their own.

My first experience with a instructor was a bad one unfortunately. I crashed on only my fourth flight. Afterwards several people told me he never should have let a beginner fly as low as I was. Nervously I got back on the horse and got a Duraplane but even with a different instructor I was so nervous I never enjoyed the flying and eventually quit.

So I guess I'm saying don't just join a club for club-sake, make sure it is reputable and actually is organized. A lot of people are eager to help whether they are capable or not. Caveat Emptor I suppose.

So, good club + an instructor that is reccommended = FUN.

Another very big reason is that many people feel that it won't be difficult.

People, tend to forget that they went through a learning process before they accomplished anything. and they tend to think of flying like driving a car, only you can go higher and lower.

But they don't realize that there are a few extra factors involved, such as the "Roll Axis", and that when your plane is upside down, down is up and up is down. And one more major factor... No Brakes!

That's right, when you get in trouble, you can't stop, and when you crash, you can't drop in another quarter and try again.

But they just don't "See" these things.

Now granted, some people have better eye/hand coordination than others, and some people pick it up faster than some, but there is STILL a learning curve. You only need to make ONE mistake before picking up the splinters.

And yes, there ARE some people who live too far from a club to get instruction. To them I say, "Slap a SPAD together and find a BIG open field".

I have also found here that many of these "beginners" are adult rated pilots who thinks its no problem. They have come out to our field and stuff them left and right. Help is offered but refused. Then feel like the idiots they were and don't show up again. I have been in R/C several years but only recently started helicopters which I flew for 20 years in the Army. Although I understand the concept of it. It took some time on the simulator to "get it down."

I have a friend (from my last job) who won a raffle that was held by our club. He got a complete RTF trainer system. I can't remember which one it was, but that's not important.

What he wanted to do was go out to the fairgrounds and start flying. I convinced him, after a lot of talking, that this was a very bad idea. Yeah, he only spent $60 on raffle tickets to get into the hobby, but he would be spending a lot more (or leaving the hobby) if he didn't joing the AMA and the RC club I'm in and get instruction. I talked him into trying out taxiing in his neighborhood, and now he realizes it's harder than he thought. He still hasn't gotten instruction yet, because he went too fast and ran into a curb and broke his prop. He's still waiting to get the new props he ordered so he can come out to the field and learn how to fly.

I know it's harder to convince people who are on a forum, but if you're thinking about trying it on your own... it's very likely you won't do well and will end up disappointed with RC flying and leave the hobby before you really give it a chance. Find a club, there are usually a few in any given area, and make sure you like the people. Get an instructor you can get along with, one who actually wants to help you learn, and you'll have a great time learning. And soloing is an awesome feeling!

You guys have hit on the notion of not realizing the dificulty. People also don't realize that just because the wind is blowing 10mph on the ground, it may actually be 20mph up above!

Hello; I taught myself to fly, it was expensive, and to be honest, I didn't really learn until I had an instructor. I didn't know anybody who flew, and asking at the local hobby shops didn't help since I lived far from the nearest city. I suppose a lot of people who try by themselves don't intend to take off, but do. Then deal with it. I surprisingly took off, and had to learn to guide the plane around without help. Then I figured that if I just flew the plane down to ground level, and chop the thriottle, it would land okay. I broke a lot of lovely planes getting past the very beginning. Not to mention the liability issue, which I hadn't even considered at the beginning. I even went to a local flying school (full scale) and chartered a plane and pilot, and studied what he did and asked lots of questions, to help in my Model flying.

I did eventually find some other flyers about 40 miles away, and linked up with them, where my instruction continued. I was pretty much "out of control" when I flew from their site. They thought I was dangerous, I thought I was doing great. Under their supervision I became a more proficient pilot, and am now one of the instructors at our field.

My advice is to find an instructor, get him to check out your plane before any attempt is made, and follow his advice. We use a buddy cord for beginners, and crashes still happen, but people do learn to fly without wreching their planes.

If I could do it all over, I wouldn't attempt to fly without an instructor. I succeeded but it cost me ten times what it should have, not to mention the emotional cost.

Several reasons people are reluctant to use an instructor. First is the time constraints. You can only fly when your instructor's available. Without an instructor, you can fly any time. Second is apprehension. Is the instructor going to be a jerk? Does he know what he's doing? Is he going to sneer at my cheap little trainer? Fear of failure is another. Better to crash when no one's looking.

You can't really overcome these objections for the beginner pilot. I've never met a bad instructor (I've known a few condescending ones), but to someone on the outside, there's a lot of unknowns.

First time around, I taught myself to fly. It was a long time ago, information wasn't as easy to find as it is now, and a lot of pilots I met had taught themselves to fly. On one of my early flights, I plowed my trainer into the hood of a car. $500 bucks. A ton of money back then, out of my pocket. I eventually did learn to fly, joined a club, flew on my own for several years, then dropped out for about 15 years. I recently got back in, and first thing I did was hook up with an instructor.

One of the reasons that I discovered was, because they are new to R/C, their perception is that getting instruction is like going to a school. There would be tests and it would be a slow process before you could get "Certified" as a pilot.
I have found many clubs that require the student demonstrate all kinds of manuvers before they can fly solo. Its a pretty stressfull process for someone who is looking at this hobby as "fun". At my club a new person can fly solo if he/she can demonstrate the following:
1) Controlled takeoff
2) fly the established pattern unassisted (with other R/C aircraft in the air).
3) Controlled Landing on the runways

Once a student has mastered these basics, then the instructors can step back and let them fly solo. If the students asks for additional help we provided it. If the student for some reason begins to to struggle with those basic steps, the instructors will step back in. The instructors are always around to guide them through aerobatics as they become more confident. I think this takes a lot of the stress out of the learning process and the new pilots can relax and just fly, instead of feeling like he/she is being judged or examined all the time while they are just trying to learn.

I am self taught and it wasn't for ego. I suppose the answer for me was, "Because it's possible."

I spent a lot of time on a simulator until I could do all the basics in winds, with the zoom features turned off. I then started with the tamest bird I could find (Slow Stick), made sure it was built right (with the help of online forums) and flew it on windless days. I flew it alot--close to 100 hours before moving on.

From there, I went to a little harder plane to fly: Great Planes BLT, took all the same precautions as for the SS, and flew it a lot. Then I graduated to a 4 channel plane, again being careful with all the details. Then I moved to the Great Planes Slinger, and now I'm flying my Formosa.

I did crash and break it in two. It is fixed, doesn't fly quite as well, but I'll get what I can out of it, likely build another and put a brushless motor system in it.

I don't think any of my crashes in the past two years could have been prevented had I had an instructor. I don't think I've crashed a lot--5 or so required some rebuilding. I knew about preflights, about potential tip stalls, about flying near poles, etc., but there were times when either testing the limits of the plane & pilot or temporary stupidity got in the way and an important step left out. Experience makes sure these don't happen too often.

Next year, I'll be flying some glow powered planes, and will be enlisting help from a seasoned member. I feel confident I'll be able to handle the planes I'm building, but I'd rather have a pro check things out first and be ready to bail me out. Some of it is the investment in time, I suppose. I don't particularly like the idea of smashing up a kit I've spent so much time building.

I can't say I'm normal in this regard though (or possibly in any regard!). I doubt many newcomers to the hobby would be willing to fly trainers for two years before they try something more spirited.

Flying electric park flyers and glo fuel airplanes are quiet a bit different though. Because glo fuel airplanes fly at much greater distances, fly at much greater speeds and can cause much greater damage when crashed, puts them in a completely different area when it comes to learning and training. The basic fundamentals are there, but they really don't interchange when it comes to training. I have several long standing members at my club who can fly electric park flyers all day long, but they simply can't master take offs, or landings with a .40 size Sig Kadet.
At my club, to get solo status it must be done in a glo-powered airplane, or electric equivalent. Small electric Park flyers can be flown in an area off the main runway and do not require solo status.
If you insist on teaching yourself, the park flyers are definitely the best way to do it.

We try to avoid the crashing part. Got that part mostly under control.

I've learned that every plane flys differently, and you find that out when you're in the air and coming in. My high wingers settle in for landings. The Formosa has to be flown to the ground. The Slinger needs a shallow approach with careful input on elevator all the way in if you want a soft, slow landing. For maidens, experiment with slow flight at stalling speeds, watch how it sinks with less throttle, shoot approaches, and before all the power is gone in case of a go around, commit to land and fly it until it touches the ground. As far as speed, I'd bet that when I'm flat out on the Slinger, I'm close to the speeds that the .40 trainer will go, and the trainer doesn't need to be flown that fast to keep it in the air.

I'm not saying it directly transfers, but I don't expect that going from what I'm used to the .40 trainer will be a quantum leap. I'd rather expect the glow trainer to be more stable than what I'm used to because of the extra 4 pounds.

But, like I said, I'll have help there to bail me out if need be which is the best thing to do.

I'll have to update next year and let you know how it goes.

I like Time Pilot's response, because it's possilbe. I taught myself, spent many months on a GP simulator 1st. Till the ele servo stripped out some teeth, my 1st trainer was hanging in there pretty good. Only one time did I do a faceplant on landing.
And like piper chuck said, some of my desire to go it on my own was ego, I take pride in teaching myself to do something. Yes, sometimes it does get expensive, but it's my moola.
And yes, I like lots of others don't like to look foolish in front of others, especially people I don't know. It's a natural human nature, as well as 1st impressions having a lasting effect on how you see someone.
There will come the time when I'm ready to learn some acrobatics, then I'll be seeking the advice of the experienced flyers.

Obviously, there are many reasons a person does not want to use the services of an instructor or can't use the services of an instructor. One hit my irritation bone, the 'condescending instructor'. We have one or two in our club but for the most part, everyone knows to steer clear of those characters, and newbe's usually get the word from one of the members as a suggestion, who to ask for help. It becomes obvious pretty quickly who is willing to help and who is not.

As for myself, I had an instructor, one of our club's best pilots. He is an older guy, retired Air Force Major, air traffic controller by training, and has a very stern nature about him, however, he is very good in that he shows/demonstrates rather than coming down on the student when the mistake is made. He says, "I've got the aircraft" and that's all he needs to say to show that I made a mistake and that was that. This is usually followed by a slow motion demonstration with him saying 'watch my hands then watch the aircraft'. On every outing, he had me practice some form of emergency procedure. This has paid off on numerous times because as a novice, I often did not get that mixture quite right and went dead-stick on several flights, each of them ending up in a perfect approach and landing. You cannot get that sort of experience by yourself because, for most of us, there is no way to figure out what to do in such a case if no-one has told us how to do it or what to do in that circumstance.

Anyway, I am happy to see so many replies and so many people with great outlooks toward beginning RC flying.

Best of luck no matter what direction you go in with your RC flying. And always remember one thing that took me some time to get through my thick skull..... when in doubt, go around!! It ain't worth it to smack a nice aircraft because of ego. Just go around if you have any doubt about your approach.

DS.

Im hating having to use an instructor....let look at my timeline here...

Early April, bought a NexStar...
Next weekend, go to feild, nobody with a radio with the square futaba...ok
Next weekend, only 2 people there, not willing to train, they were new still
Next weekend, Get a flight in, then wind picks up...instructor sais he'll prolly solo me in a week or so...
Next weekend...different person there, get a flight in with him, get the same response as the first one...

<big life change, new car, job, puppy....alot of things going on...fast forward to about a month ago>

Ok, been a while, but i go to the feild, a different one now, longer drive but supposedly more organized...
First time at new feild, 3 or 4 people there, real nice, get a flight and a half in (first was deadsticked), did the second flight without him ever having to let off the trainer switch...
Next week, go up, too windy (nobody's fault)
Next week, nobody there, on a beautiful, calm sunday with low wind and blue skys...arrgh...
Now im comming up on this weekend, and have this hurricane of the coast down south thats prolly gonna rain me out...


SO many times i've wanted to just go fly (i could easily get away with it at the first feild because of the lack or organization there)

I can handle the plane...the day a few weeks ago that i got 2 flights in, there was about a 10 mph crosswind across the runway...and i handled it (wind was my main concern) ...

I have easily spent over 300 hours on the sim since april (couldnt get out to fly, but i flew at night on the sim) and my reflexes are natural now...

I'm starting work on a community/club site that would make this process easier i think for participating clubs once its up and running as far as scheduling...but that wont launch untill december....

I just hate the wait...especially when i Know (and im not being cocky) that im capable of flying...im I the best pilot? far from it...but i know am good enough to not need an instructer holding my hand at this point...

I just went to my first club meeting last night as a guest. I'm pretty sure it's the one I'll join once I purchase something other than the Scout I have now. I'm lucky enough to have 3 clubs in my area, more than that if I want to drive a ways. But this one is the largest and has two fields.

I talked with a couple of new people and they could do nothing but smile and talk about how great their training experiences were. So it looks like I will be fortunate in my traditional plane training. (I don't count my haphazard Scout experiences as flying)

It's definately possible to learn on your own as others have mentioned. I am another that tought myself to fly. BUT it did take a couple of false starts before I really tried to get it right. I started building kits before I ever though about learning to fly. My dad had purchased an old "red box" TF P-51B and gave it to me to build for him. I got it about 80% done and he lost interest so I traded it for some RC car stuff. Fast forward a few years and I'm in the Air Force stationed in England. One of the guys I was working with was rotating back to the states and gave me his RC stuff. A Goldberg Falcon 56 kit, and one if the old radio systems from Tandy or someplace. [8D] I built the kit, and did a really good job on it and the covering. At this point in time, the internet wasn't even a dream, and I had no clue about CG or ailerons being reversed. I just plugged everything in and made sure it worked. Alas, as what happens with MOST people that try without an instructor, the flight lasted about 5 seconds. It was tailheavy and the ailerons were reversd [:@] I got frustrated with myself and gave up. A couple of years later, still in the AF, one of my students mentioned he flew RC and had brought his "something" biplane with him. He said he'd show me how to fly, so I built a Goldberg Eagle 63. This time I had him check everything over and he determined it was good to go. He took her up and flew a couple of circuits and then flew it into a tree. I was heartbroken AGAIN. I gave up after that for a good 10 years. Now, a couple of years ago I picked up an old Goldberg Eagle II, built it and went out and flew it. My first take off was good and my first landing was decent. I practiced with it for a few weeks until I was too low and slow on my turn on final approach and stalled it. To get back flying quickly I purchased some unknown ARF trainer which still hangs from the ceiling in my shop.

In the begining, I tried without an instructor out of necessity because there was noone on base that flew. The next time I DID try with an instructor and he destroyed my plane. The last time WAS out of PRIDE because I KNEW I could do it. In the 10 years between tries, I flew many flight sims, and learned a LOT from the internet. After flying the ARF trainer for a few months, I was completely bored with it. The instructor at the club/public field that I fly at said I was more than ready to move on, and that's when I built a 4*40 from recommendations from people right here on RCU. Since then I've built a Something Extra, A Tower hobbies Fun-51, and I'm in the middle of a TF P-47 build. I will be building a Goldberg Ultimate this winter, or maybe a bigger gas powered Ultimate if I can convince the wife the cost would be worth it

One of the hardest thing for new flyers to learn is the correct control inputs when the plane is coming towards you. I had a little easier time from my experience with RC cars, but one of the greatest things I heard here on RCU made it very simple. To level out the plane when it is coming towards you, move the stick in the direction of the wing that is lower. That little bit of information made learning on my own much easier. When I first started, I used to almost think out loud to make sure I was controlling it correctly. Now, it's pretty much automatic. So, I have to thank RCU for being here. Without it my re-intrance to the hobby probably wouldn't have been as successful.

Many I see are told it is easy, by someone who has never done it so they think it is. I also see a lot of kids with the 'I am not listening to anyone cause I know more" attitude. They usually don't last long. Then you get the ones that just won't listen. They buy stuff, are told my many to get help, and they take it to the k mart parking lot and wind up on the store roof. Have seen that a few times over the years.

Many are to impatient to wait, and won't call and ask for help. They just show up and expect an instructor to be there. If they would show up, figure out who can help them, and then call them and set up a good time to learn, they would get it a heck of a lot quicker.

There are many reasons people won't use an instructor. Most of them bad. I have seen very few who have ever learned on their own and stuck with it. Most get bored withind hours because all they do is wreck planes. Maybe 1 in 25 make it successfully from what I have seen. The ones that do make it, usually have a lot of natural talent. The ones that don't, well, they help keep companies in business and give the rest of us some great buys on used equipt.

I think most of our posts are coming from the aspect of those who focus on the flying first thing. I bet some of those who shun the "trainer" experience is out of a Hemingway-esque pioneering spirit.

"I built it, I will conquer it."

affordability was an issue to me. I spent just over $100 for an electric park flyer (Ventura) because I wanted to try the hobby out first before spending $300-400. Yes, I could afford to spend another $50 (AMA 3 month and my local club fee for aug-dec) but with that representing 50% of my initial investment, I wasn't interested.

Pride/ego was an issue as well. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, I wasn't sure whether I would be accepted with my "plastic toy" or just a part of the debate about dumbing down the hobby.

I did end up joining the ama and my local club. They even helped me with the Ventura! Now I'm building a sig senior kadet kit. The key for me I think was that the local club made me feel welcome initially. As I went out to the field a couple of times and to a club meeting, I saw some of the advantages of the more traditional route into the hobby: building a trainer, using a club instructor, etc. There are a lot of routes for beginners into this activity and I feel fortunate that my local club was there to help.

Time

Pride

Inconvenience

Expense (AMA membership)

Marketing hype. Lots of big, colorful pictures of planes that are "Almost Ready To Fly!" Heck, you mean all I have to do is stand here and the plane will fly itself! Yippee!


I quote:

"With Hobbico's SuperStars, only the choices are hard"
- - - Whew, I thought getting the engine broken in and running and trimming on the first flight was going to be hard. Guess not.

"Ready for take off in as little as 20 minutes"
- - - Small enough to fit back in the box in 23 minutes.

"Slow-flying and so stable it self-corrects if you release the sticks"
- - - Yep. You can crash in a level attitude. What happens if you yank back on takeoff (or have the control throws with too much travel) and stall the wings at 20 feet? You can release the sticks all you want and it's still a broken plane.

"You will successfully learn how to fly with a Tower Trainer MkII, or we will replace it with your choice of another trainer of up to equal value."
- - - The fine print is at an AMA-chartered club with a qualified instructor. It's enough of a intro that a confident young male (are there any other kind) will figure he don't need no steenkin instructor.


Flight simulators. A blessing & a curse. They instill a false sense of confidence in those who can fly dozens of planes, hot and not. Real life throws you curves not on the machine. Engine to lean? "sputter" Konk! Deadstick. Up elevator (natural instinct). Stall. Land in tree, or dirt nap. Wheel collar loose? Oops! Cartwheel. Crosswind gust? "Yip", tip, flip! Battery low? Bye Bye birdie. Hope it doesn't land where it hurts someone.

But they do teach you to react to the difference of a plane flying away vs. towards you. That's a big head start.

What I learned on the ground from "The Elders" was worth more than what I learned in the air . . . well, almost. How to tune an engine. What's causing those bubbles in the fuel line? How to balance a plane. How to check C.G. Radio & servo adjustments. Pre-flight inspections. (How many planes are lost because someone is in a hurry to get it in the air in front of peers, or just on their own and excited)?

It's also good to have someone level headed nearby when you reach through a prop to adjust a needle valve. I bet 60% of all new pilots do that in their first year without an instructor to yell at them every time it begins to happen.

I wasn't going to comment here but what the heck, why not.
In reference to rjm's post # 16 and going along with most of the post and especially flyboy's post 19: No mater how people feel about using an instructor, in one way or another he is going to be of some help and most likely will end up saving you money, time and frustration if YOU give them an honest chance.
Now by an honest chance: Meet your instructor, talk with him, get his phone number and make arrangements with him to get togeather ie: arrange times to call to see if he can help you. Then call at those times even if it's to say I'm sorry I can't fly today. ( you can say your sorry -- RIGHT )
If you set a time to go fly BE THERE and be on time.
Let him know that if you make arrangements to fly and he can't for some reason: PLEASE call and let me know.
In other words grant him the respect he is due and hope he is the type that will do the same.
Good instructors are normally good people ( they have to be to put up with some of the s*** they get ) and will treat you the same as you treat them, and they will sorrow at your misfortunes as much as you do.
No mater how you feel about instruction, there are good points that shouldn't be overlooked.
As a last point: I'm self taught ( that's another story ) and as such I promised myself that if I could help it NO ONE around me would have to go through the same thing I did, it wasn't really fun.
ENJOY !!! RED

I was at the flying field the other day this guy stated that he's an fullscale pilot and these planes will be no differant. He did have the AMA and joined the club etc. I asked him if he needed any help ill be gladly willing to help. He was like no piece of cake. Takes off, makes one track around and SPLAT!!!!! Then he comes to me and asks for help.
First thing flying the real thing and flying a model plane is totally differant things. Granted having the knowledge how a typical plane flies, ailerons, etc. is a good plus but, you are in a totally differant point of view. Depth perception plays a HUGE role in RC aircraft.

Im kinda surprised to see how unorganized some people are. Im part of a club. I joined right after i got my trainer, before that i joined the AMA. Who cant afford twenty bucks? If you walk across the NYC once, you can pick up half that amount in pennies. Well anyway, i didn't go to the field just yet. FIrst i contacted the president of the club and asked him if there are any good instructors around that can help me. He gave me a list of phone # and i contacted one of them. HE WAS GOING TO BE MY ONLY INSTRUCTOR. SO for those who were switching around a bit between instructors, its no good. Chose on, contact him. Then Ive set up times and days i will be at the field. PRetty much every time i go to the field, there are at least 15 people there to help out, or just learning like i am. THe learning curve for me was short because i used FMS alot, and the most important thing in this hobby is coordination of you to the plane. ONce you got that down, there really are no reason for you to lose your aircraft, unless you get nervous and spas out at the sticks.MY first solo, my knees were shaking ALOT, i forced them down, and did well. Sure some of my landing weren't pretty, but my trainer is still intact. So just going to the field and expecting someone there to teach you is a bad idea. YOu have to know what you are going to do and get prepared. This hobby is the best out there, and im going to start a kit eventually after i get bored with my trainer. NO matter how docile the Tower HObbies Trainer .46 is, its pretty darn fun to do loops and rolls on. I cant get bored of it so its just waiting for the next flight. THe worst part of this hobby is, apart form crashing, is having to wait until your batteries are charged. Also the community at the field is great. ITs so fun talking about politics and RC at the same time with 40-60 year old guys. Im 16, and its just hilarious to me, and im like the silent flyer there. I think there is no way of learning by your self. IF you think its too expensive to get an AMA card, too expensive to join a club, think how much you will pay to buy a new airplane? You have have to invest a little to get the most out of the hobby. THe only thing thats pissing me off, is the fact that im not investing in my sailplane. I was supposed to learn how to fly it but for some strange reason, im too scared to wip out the 50-60 bucks for a receiver and battery.

So now im going to make an attempt to answer the question:

1) You might not need an instructor if your willing to PAY the consequences

2) You might not need an instructor if you build a SPAD

3) You might not need an instructor if you buy a 30$ piece of crap from toys r us, because then your wasting your time and the instructors.

THats it.