"The more money you save, the more work you tend to create." - I tend to agree with that.

There is no doubt that the 9C will allow you more flexibility with future planes compared to lesser radios. Not so much the 9 channels, but the programming and model memory are a plus. It's not so much that a lesser radio wouldn't work, but that it is easier to setup and store some configurations on a more advanced radio. Typically, there is always a work around, such as Y-cables, reversers, programmable servos, matchboxes, etc. It is just cleaner, simpler and more reliable IMO to avoid the extra fiddly bits inside a plane.

I take the same tact with radios as I do engines. They are items you keep a long time and can/will be used across many models. They are also items that if they misbehave, or don't or can’t do what you want, they can really cause a lot of frustration in what should be your fun time. My opinion is to get the best you can afford that meets your needs over the next 5 or so years.

This is where the problem exist with a new pilot. Who knows what you will be doing in 5 years. Will you stick with 4ch sport planes, move to giants or jets than require 10 channels, go into pylon racing, combat, scale, pattern, etc? Or possibly drop out of the hobby? If you are serious and the type that sticks with something, I'd say the 9C is a great radio for you. If you are unsure about the hobby, get the RTF, then sell it later and get the 9C then.

I started with a Futaba 6AX. At the time it was a nice 6ch computer radio. It was overkill my first season. Once I had a plane setup, I rarely messed with the settings. On a couple of occasions I played with flaperon, airbrake, etc. just to see how they affected the plane, but in general the extra programming did not detract from my learning how to fly. I used it for 1-1/2 years, at which point it couldn't handle all the mixes I was using. At 1-1/2 years, I was flying advanced aerobatic planes and trimming them for aerobatic flight. I actually ran out of mixes on the 6AX. For me, I quickly went from overkill to not enough on the 6AX in less than 2 years. So I sold the 6AX and got a 9ZAP, top of the line in the day and still a killer radio. Been using it for 6 years now. Love it so much I could never go back to a lesser radio. However, others I know have been flying for decades and still use their original 4ch or 6ch radios without a problem. There is no right or wrong here. It really depends on the person, they type of flying they do, etc.

My final word... it's your money, get what you want.

Yea, I took the plain old 4 channel route with my trainer trying to save a few bucks. I outgrew that by my second model and found out that I should of purchased a better radio. My next radio was a 6XAS which served me well for about 2 years. When I moved up to the more advanced scale aerobatic planes I found out how fast the channels get used up. I replaced my 6XAS with an Airtronics Stylus with all the upgrade cards. It took me alittle while to learn what all the functions were for but now all I can do is say nice. I have also programmed a 9C and believe it is one of the easiest to program radios I have seen. Much easier than my 6XAS was. If my students were to inquire about the 9C I would not try to sway them away from it. All the extra functions can just lie in wait till they need them. This is of course if I picked up that they were serious about staying with the hobby. If they were just trying it out then RTF all the way.

I started out a couple years ago with the basic 4ch radio but upgraded to the 9c after a month or so. IMO the 9c was the best money I've ever spent in the hobby, although the old 4ch wasn't really a waste because the servos, receiver, switch etc that came with it were worth almost the price I paid for the whole thing. I ended up selling the old TX on ebay for $20 or something and came out about even. I'm certainly glad I didn't bother taking a step in-between and getting a 6x or something like that because I would have just ended up having to buy atleast a 9c anyway and end up being stuck with a low end computer radio that I would lose money on trying to re-sell.

If ya got the $$, go for the 9C. If you don't, go for the 6EXA, If you think you may not stick with it, the 4chnl Computer Radio will fill the bill, better yet a skysport, from a swapmeet for about $30. Just depends on personal taste. You have two sticks to use on a trainer. leave the rest alone until you can do inverteds with a LT40 a foot off the deck, at WOT. Then go with a plane that uses 5 channels(two seperate aileron servos) and read the book 9-10 times cover to cover.

My first Radio was a 9CAF, with standard flight pack. that was two years ago. I have just now tried my hand at programming some simple mixes into it. my buddybox, for the wife, is a 6EXA.

And remember, just because we had all those nukes, didnt mean we had to use them. Just because your engines high end will peel the mono off the wings doesnt mean thats the only speed you have to run. Finally, all the switches on a 9C or for that matter a 14MZ do not have to necessarily be utilized, until the pilot has a total understanding of how and when to use them.

Ken, You mentioned that new 4ch Futaba. Will that let you adjust aileron differential with a y harness? The Futaba 6DA I have now (no computer) will only do that with Ch. 1 & Ch. 6 for the ailerons, not a y-harness into one channel.
Now before y'all get started, I'm currently using the 4 channel Tower radio that came with the Trainer & a buddy cord to the Futaba, but I do want a computer for the model memory, as I allready have a number of planes & not enough sense to stop accumulating more! This 6DA is a pretty nice radio for not being a computer, it will do some mixing, dual rates, & flaperons, again requiring Ch.1 & 6 for the ailerons, & re-tracts, but no model memory[>:] Any suggestions for my next radio??


Mark


P.S. While I'm stilling learning to fly we don't mess with any of the features on the Futaba. He just trims it in conjuction with the Tower radio & off we go.

elenasgrumpy,
Not even a computer radio is going to let you adjust the aileron differential if you are using an Y-harness. That is because you are using only one channel to control the ailerons with. Differential is when one aileron moves less in the up direction than the other aileron moves in the down direction. When you use one channel to control the ailerons the up and down movements are going to be the same distance of travel.

I know that I'm an odd duck in the RC world when it comes to radios, in the fact that I have so many radios and don't want to put them on one computer radio. Part of that comes from how I got most of my radios. I got into RC at the same time that I was also starting a business. At that time money was very very tight, so a lot of the things I got in RC (i.e. planes, radios, engines, etc...) I got in trades. So I wound up with a lot of different radios (all Airtronics). Now that I can afford to buy equipment I really don't see a need to go to the hassle of trying to get all of my planes into one computer radio. I still have very valid reasons (at least in my warped mind) for not having all of my eggs in one basket. And they are, if there is someone else on my channel at the field I'm not always stuck waiting for them to clear the channel, I can just fly something else on another channel. Also, if I ever have to send the radio in for repair I'm not stuck not being able to fly while I wait for the radio to be returned.

Ken

RCKens says
Repectfully, I would personally reword that to say...
If the student relies on the radio for somethings then they never really learn how to TRIM properly. mixes are use to correct trim issues, not pilot issues unless its because the pilot os too lazy trim the plane out right..

Ken is right,,, there are a LOT of lazy pilots out there that never take the time to learn how to mechaincally setup a plane correctly which results in a plane that doesnt fly well regardless of how much mix you put in

BUT>>>

Computer radio mixes can help to make up for inherent trim deficiencies in an airframe. However, If the new pilot ( at the 2nd plane level IMO) learns to adjust the basic mechanical parameters (thrust, cg, lateral balance, properly set throws) to get the plane flying as true as possible and THEN use the radio to mix out that what cannot be trimmed out by having a well setup airframe, they are WAY better off in the long run..... There is no way anyone should need to mix out a trainer, cub, cessna or whatever.. They all do fine for what they are designed to do without using computer mixed trimming....

BUT if you are flying an 3D Ultimate Biplane and you want to take the inherent pull to the canopy that cannot be corrected with any amount of mechanical adjustment without sacrificing other qualities then a computer radio is a priceless tool.
Learning to fly an airplane that flies like crap even after the person trimming has done everything in their power to setup the plane correctly, is not learning to fly properly its just being heardheaded.

I will repeat what I have said before as a comparison.. Who in their right mind would try to drive their car down the road with the front end 6" out of alignment and the car pulling hard to the left just to prove that it makes them a better driver... NOONE. Why should you not use mixing to fix what you cant fix mechanically...



So in short..... the 9C is PERFECT for a beginner if you want a pretty simple radio that you can use for anything you could ever want to fly including a basic trainer,,, to a pattern plane, to 3D planes and complex heli and glider setups... The radio is ridiculously simple to use,, all it takes is sitting with the radio and the manual for about 30minutes to an hour to be able to setup the basic parameters with relaitve ease..
Respectfully, some of the older guys that arent computer saavy do struggle a little with computer radios... But the typical person from 15- 50 have no problems mastering the 9C really quickly.

bigned,
I agree with you 100%. The problem that I have seen is that a lot of times the student just can't help playing with all the "bright lights, bell, and whistles" on that "fancy radio". If they can set the radio at just the basics and LEAVE it there I have no problems, but if they start trying to play with it then I have problems with it. You have to admit that most people who get into this hobby aren't the type to wait. They have just bought this fancy new radio and they want to play with it!! Having the basic 4-channel no frills radio keeps them from playing with the bells and whistles, because there aren't any to play with.

Ken

Ken, Thanks, That's what I thought as far as being able to adjust the differential, personally I'll be sticking to six channels or better after I'm done training. What I don't understand is why the amount of model memory seems to coincide with the number of channels you buy, ie: 6 channel gets you 6 model memory and so on & so forth in most of the Futabas I've been looking at. I'm sure there are exceptions to that. Just seems strange to me. I can't see myself ever needing more than 6 channels, I can see myself needing more than 6 model memory. Or am I just not looking at expensive enough 6 channel radios? Probably the case.


Mark

Yes, when my computer radio needed service, I was toast for a bit, had to fly my plain jane radio and limited myself to one plane to avoid the hassles of re-setting other models. But when I think about how many students mess up the trims from one weekend to the next and all the time wasted trimming both the master/slave, at times having to call a more experienced pilot to trim out the buddy box, well I wish more students came by with a 9c. Sure its only a bit more extra time, but when you have 5-6 students and only you around, every little bit helps. All you have to do is neutral the buddy box trims, and make sure that all the surfaces are going the right direction. It also allows easy buddy boxing with a heli, all the mixes can carry over.

I do always have the student set everything mechanically, besides there aren't a whole lot of things one can program on a trainer with four servos. Oh yes, another thing I like is having a timer built in and tied to the throttle.

Good point San Francisco San Jose Kid, I'd forgotten about the timer, I'm sure someday it will save a plane or two for me If ya ever make it out to Tracy, maybe you can teach me some things too. We fly with the Tracy Skyliners, hope to become a member at the first of the year, currently impatiently waiting my turn to join.


Mark

This is actually part of my training student. After the first flight for a student they learn to trim their airplane every day at the field. I have a bunch of buddy boxes, so I can usually have a buddy box for each student (so we don't have to mess with servo reversing each session). What's really funny that most students don't catch on to why they have to retrim their plane every session. As I put away the buddy boxes each session I intentionally change their trim settings, so they have to retrim every flight. I feel that having the skills to do this makes them a better pilot down the road. They won't be afraid of doing a maiden flight because they know how to trim a plane.

Ken

My instructor used to intentionally set the trims on the buddy box off a little bit. We'd get up in the air, he'd let me have control and ask "What's it doing? Does it need any trim changes?"

It definitely is something that needs to be learned otherwise you will be asking for the rest of your flying career for someone else to trim your plane for you after you make any kind of change.

I have a 9C but I bought it just before my 3rd plane was assembled. I used a computer radio before but it was the 6EAX so mixes and things like that were not as available. I love my 9C and the only thing it would have done for me at the beginning would have been to save me money up front. Now, at least I do have a backup radio if my 9C goes bad.

Really it's a personal choice on how much money you want to spend in my opinion but the bells and whistles won't start being useful until about the 3rd plane (if even then).

Hey Ken,

You know the thought never occured to me to do as you suggest, I think I'll start doing that as I feel appropriate. I agree, that there are far too many flyers that are afraid of the maiden flight. Also, I lost a couple of planes when I first started since I insisted on handling the first flights by myself, your little exercise would have helped immensely. Any suggestions for the wind challenged flyer?

My comments thus far were made with the first time, or close to, pilot.

Unfortunately I can't help you with the wind challenged students. I don't have any of those. I'm not bragging about my skills as an instructor, it's just when you learn to fly in Oklahoma you learn to fly in the wind. our normal days are usually too windy for a lot of other pilots. A normal flying day will have the wind 10-20 mph, and we don't consider it being too windy until it gets 25-30 mph. So by defualt they learn to fly in the wind.

Ken

The 9C is a wonderful transmitter, but if you start with it you'll never appreciate that.


I see two "pitfalls" of that being your first (I own one, by the way).

Any digital radio kind of bypasses the importance of setting up the plane properly to begin with. This may never be a problem if you always use a computer radio, but you can "hyper-trim" a servo with computer radios to the extreme that the mid-point is so far out of kilter that the travel is uneven. Digital trims are so relatively easy and convenient that they must be in some way evil.

The other problem is that if you "bail out" of the hobby you've got a much larger investment to swallow. I'm not sure of the attrition rate, but I figure at least 15% of beginners walk away within the first year. Of course, you won't.

Having a six channel radio as a back-up is not a bad thing. You may want a glider or Zagi on a different radio/channel to use on a different channel (pin conflicts, perhaps) or on vacation as a "beater" set-up.

I have a 6DA (now extinct) that has manual mixes (pot adjustments instead of digital). It takes the same battery pack as the 9C, so I have a choice of a second radio/plane, or I can swap out batteries for more flying time on the 9C.

Always good to have a back-up.

Charlie, thats only true if you use all of the setup features. As an instructor I personally encourage them to get the 9C and HELP them setup their 1st plane so that the mixing functions that are something the trainee will only need later down the road on more advanced planes. But at least he doesnt spend $200 on something he is very likely not going to want to use once he sees all of the nice computer radios out there once he starts to get educated on the RC world. Just work with the student to teach him how to use the radio as part of his training so he doesnt try to OVER use the tool.

I can sortof see the older guys not wanting to mess with programming something since many struggle with computers,, but for the younger computer saavy generation its a must have for the few extra $$ it cost. There are so many handy functions other than mixing that I use...

1. I use the slider to have finger touch control of ground idle speed, flight idle speed and then landing idle speed. At the bottom of the slider the engine dies. 1 click of the slider above the bottom its turning minimum rpms,,,,

2. I use the timers setup on countdown and sometimes in response to the position of the throttle stick... Its super easy to use and it will save you from forgetting and running out of gas.. On a big gas plane you can only get 10 minutes of so out of a tank so you try to squeeze every second out of practice flights so you dont have to add weight with a bigger tank.

3. Multiple Model Memory.... Enough said!

4. I can see what model program I am flying at all times when the Tx is on.

5. Digital onboard transmitter voltage meter.

6. If I want to program a mix, I can put any mix I want on any switch OR I can program it to stay on all of the time!

I could go on and on with the long term advantages gained by starting with a comp radio..

Its not my job to protect an adult pilot from himself.. Computer radios are a flat out better buy especially the 9C. If the student want to move on and overcomplicate things thats their own dumb fault for not listening.

Ken, I'm kinda surprised your guys don't understand why they need to re-trim every flight. Personally I can't seem to pick the thing up or set it down without accidently sliding at least one trim tab. I'm still quite the rookie in training, but I know I knock it a least a half a bubble outta plumb every time I touch it! I like your comments BigNed. I have a few 3Ch. the 4Ch. that came with my Trainer, & the Futaba 6DA that I mentioned above, all of these were given to me. When I spend my own money to buy the radio I want, I will be buying one that I will grow into as a pilot, not one that I will grow out of. And as you said if I screw up because I did not read the manual that came with it, or listen to good instruction, that's my own fault. If I had never bothered to actually read the manual that came with the 6DA, I wouldn't have known how to adjust the aileron differential, set-up flaperons, or the aileron to rudder mix on it. I have all that set up on the mini edge 540 with the 6DA. I'm just not ready to fly that plane yet, or try to use those features. The good thing is I know I'm not ready yet, but when I am at least I'll know how to drive the radio


Mark


Mark

Trim tabs on the Comp Radios are as easy to knock out of trim, as thier Analog brothers, but they only move one or two clicks and the display shows how much they have moved..so its pretty easy to correct.

I learned on buddy box with my 9C as the slave. It worked out fine. Oklahoma winds tried to down me a few times, but like Ken said, you learn to fly in the wind, if your in OK. I actually have started refining my mixes for normal(10-20MPH winds) or adverse(21+MPH winds). I call it my "Calm/Windy" switch. I have used it one time, and actually realized I didnt really need it, because I was already subconsiously compensating for it,,,,,,So there ya have it, Bells, whistles, switches,, but just learn those two tall sticks and the rest is there when you move upward in the hobby/addiction