I have an SSE and a BalsaNova, both set up for flaperons. My Futaba 6XEA radio has a knob on the upper right to actuate the flaperons. Just not quite sure how to best utilize them, or when! I found that when I operate them, the plane wants to dive. I mixed in a little elevator and that fixed that but I find it difficult to take my fingers off the stick and actuate the flaperons and when I do, its difficult to guage how far to move the knob.....also, its not clear to me what the benefits are and when to use them. Because I'm not sure what to do, I typically leave my fingers off that little knob.

Anybody want to step up and give me a crash course? I'll appreciate it.

THe flapperons are supposed to flex downward -- are yours?

Dsk,
Flaperons are basically a mix of flaps and ailerons. On a full scale plane it will have both flaps and ailerons, but since most of our planes aren't built with both you can get the same effects by using a computer radio to mix together the two functions onto one control surface, thus you have flaperons.

You already know that the ailerons cause the plane to roll, but he effects of flaps can be confusing to newer pilots. Flaps are a control surface that extend down from the trailing edge of the wing. What this does is basically increase the surface of the wing, which will produce more lift from the wing. Full scale planes use them to take off and land. Extending the flaps let's the wing produce more lift for takeoff, and will let the plane fly slower to land.

When you mix them into our planes the ailerons will extend down into a flap position, but will still let you move them with the aileron controls to correct directions changes. When you extend the flaps down the extra drag causes the plane to slow down and thus dive, which you have already noticed. You can correct that with elevator, or by giving the plane a bit more power. How much you use when taking off and landing depends on the plane. With a SSE they really aren't needed. But if you want to play around with them I would recommend that you make approaches at a mistake or two high, and start applying the flaperons. Try just a little bit at first until you become more comfortable with the way the plane handles with them.

Hope this helps

Ken

you can also use spoilerons (ailerons UP) just as effectively. that is generally very useful if you come in too fast or too high and need to bleed off energy before landing. you can also do nice vertical decents without overspeeding with spoilerons up. (not to mention really nice harriers)

Thanks for the replies.....yes, my ailerons go down when I actuate the flaperons. It appears the radio setup is a bit flaky. The little knob really doesn't have an effective stop so its difficult to know exactly where to place it to neutralize the flaperons. I CA'd a small block of wood to the case to act as a stop.....It seems like I just need to experiment a bit. MY SSE seems to come in pretty fast and I'd like to use the flaperons to slow it down and of course I'd like to play with them in aerobatics and 3d....thanks again!!

I thought you would just use a switch to activate the flaperons.

With flaperons I thought the idea was that you can just pretend that you have two sets of control surfaces and just activate flaps as you normally would ie with one of the switches.

Actually I'm not to sure whether most people who use flaps have variable or just hard on/off flaps. If I was going to have flaps I'd probably opt for the hard on/off approach. It seems much simpler and requires less concentration.

I'm not really sure how transmitters work. Actually this is probably a good oppurtunity to ask them.

Say you have a 6ch radio. You have 2 auxilery channels which can be assigned to either a knob or a switch (or more maybe). Is it possible on most transmitters to replace a switch with a knob and visa versa so as to customise your handset? Also, is it possible on most transmitters that have mixing options to choose which auxilery channel you mix into your flapperon setup?

i fly all my planes with a flaperon/spoileron mix using the shoulder slider on my 9c, but when I had my 6xas yet I also flew that using one of the knobs for flaps. don't worry about centerpoint, and like I said you can always use the top half of for spoilerons.

if your SSE is coming in too fast there is something else wrong, that plane should land at a walking pace! you probably have the idle too high, in which case flaps are going to make it nearly impossible to land, it is just going to float along forever.. in fact, landing with flaps down on most beginner/intermediate planes is harder then without, and you also increase your chances of a tip stall with the flaps down.

Actually deploying flaps should cause the plane to balloon up, not dive. However, after the plane has reached speed equilibrium with the flaps deployed it may nose down. This is what is great about flaps! You can come down a steeper approach angle and not build up speed. The flaps/flaperons on my Airtronics VG6000 are activated by a three position switch. Position one is retracted, position two is half flaps and position three is fully deployed. With a rotary knob I would set it up so retracted is at one end of rotation and the other end is fully deployed.

As well as there being flaperons, there are also elevons, ruddervators, spoilerons and other obscure control surfaces and control surface combinations. However, flaperons have really caught on with the advent of "confuser radios" as they are so simple to employ and are very useful on our simple sport planes, as well as 3D ships.

Mark
AMA 59165

some planes will pitch nose down with flap deployment--not all planes pitch up. Also, flaps shouldn't increase tip stall--they should prevent it by makins sure the root stalls before the tip does. However, ailerons on the outter most portion of the wing (as opposed to strip ailerons) very well can cause tip stall if setup for flaperons, because you will indeed be inducing a stall out on the tip of the wing only.

Hi dsk
I have the same airplane and radio and went thru some of the same problems. I happened to bump the knob to full up one day on takeoff and ran it full throttle for over 150 ft before I realized what had happened !!! The tailwheel never even came off the ground LOL. Also tried throwing full down flaperons on it at about half throttle, I could make it do outside loops using no elevator at all. I am checking with Radio South to see if they can install a three position switch in mine and do away with the knob. In my opinion Futaba should have put a switch on it to start with.

Dale

as he was only mentioning flaperons, not real flaps, the tip still is a big issue... I run an obscene amount of flaperon/spoileron control on my ucando, and at full deflection it is borderline tip stall the entire time! (same with spoilerons)

as far as pitch up, two of my planes pitch up, two pitch down. I don't use flaps much on the ones that pitch down! it is really an uneasy feeling when you add some flaps and end up with the nose suddenly lower then it was before. (my 3d planes pitch up, the rest pitch down, don't know if that actually is just coincidence or not...)

I don't doubt what you folks are saying to be true. However, attempt to explain why an airplane would pitch down with flap deployment. From an aerodynamic standpoint, down flaps, increases the AOA of that portion of the wing adjacent to the flap/flaperon. Increasing AOA should cause a pitch-up, not down. The aircraft's reaction should be the same as up-elevator. Again, I'm not calling you liars! Just interested in this phenomena. My guess is it must have something to do with icreased down-wash from the wings with the flaps deployed.

Hi daboosailing
Let me clarify on my previous post that I had the flaperons in extreme throw conditions !!! ( 65+ degrees) and throttle set to half or more !! See pics below. Under normal conditions and using the flapperons normally 10 to 20 degrees and 1/4 throttle or less you will not see these large nose pitches. Yes down flaps generate lift but huge amounts of down flaps and excessive speeds with no elevator opposition will cause the ailerons to act similar to an elevator and they will try to lift the trailing edge of the wing similar to an elevator lifting the rear of the plane, thus causing the pitch down of the nose. Also the SSE has a very wide wing chord over 12" on a 24" wing half and very large ailerons, wings with a smaller chord and narrower ailerons should not pitch as much. At full deflection my ailerons are trying to act like a speed brake. Please excuse the long winded explanation. This was the easiest way I could think of to explain it and I am sure one of the moderators will tell me if I got too far off base.

Dale

There are several things occurring in this case.

The extension of the flapperons increases the effective angle of incidence (and effective AOA), which increases the lift. However, in this case the flapperons are extended well past the point of maximum lift, and drag is increasing much more rapidly than lift. This being a low wing AC, the center of drag is now pushed downward, well below the thrust line and center of mass, resulting in a down-pitching moment.

There is also a contribution from downwash that is probably approaching the lift from pressure differential -- thus pushing the center of pressure aft & making the AC nose heavy.

Had the flapperons been extended at a much shallower angle, the pitching moment would have been upward.

Overextension of flapperons is highly dangerous -- it can cause extreme adverse yaw and aileron reversal, in addition to nose-down pitching in a low-wing AC.

You should be able to program that radio so that the ATV is set to what you want it. You can also set the up atv at 0%, thus you won't have any problem with a "dive".

Do you have the new 6 or older version?

Hi shag555

I have the older version, the 6EXA not the 6EXAS

Dale

Slowfly58, I guess I hadn't thought about flaps being used as spoilers. When I think of deploying flaps I don't think of them being much past 30-40 degrees. This is from my full scale flying days. Designers of full scale airplanes don't allow their pilots to fool around with "ride in" airplanes, the way us modelers can. It can sometimes bite us on the butt, also! If I'd a thunk how spoilers effect my sailplanes, pitching down would be understandable.

daboosailing...

It took a while to get used to them but once they are toned down it really makes for some nice maneuvers. The SSE really does not need the flapperons but it looks neat doing flat square turns and with a little head wind it can fly backwards and stay pretty stable. Still wish Futaba would have used a switch instead of the knob though. Very easy to bump it by accident with it right by your index finger. [X(]

Dale

Take a look at a DeHaviland Twin Otter (DHC-6) with full flaps selected. You will see that the trailing section has rotated approx 80 degrees from the "up" position. This plane has full span double sloted Fowler flaps. The aileron sections also function as flaperons. Tremendous short field capabilities (STOL). Take-offs in less than the length of the plane, I've seen it done. Not bad for full scale.

My full scale was only in Cessna 150-152 and 172s. Never had the opportunity to fly anything DeHaviland built, nor anything that was really STOL. This makes me have to ask: So what happens to a DHC-6 when he goes from straight and level at cruise and goes to full flaps, does the nose pitch up or down?

First off, you can't deploy flaps at cruise speed. Must reduce to the top of the white arc on airspeed indicator which, if I recall correctly, is @100 kts. At that point you can begin to set flaps and the nose will attempt to pitch up. Approx one roll down on the trim wheel neutralizes it. Flaps are hydraulic so there is time to adjust trim as flaps deploy. Pattern speed with 10 degrees selected is usually flown @ 72 kts. Base leg with 20 degrees @ 64 kts. Final is up to 37.5 degrees selected (gives the 80 degrees in the actual flap) @ 59 kts. Touch down speed can be so slow that no indications are on the airspeed indicator. Landing roll-out in calm wind is under 50 feet with full reverse used and light braking. Speeds will vary under adverse weather conditions.
Unfortunately I haven't flown one for almost 20 years now, but used to daily. Fun plane.
If you ever have a chance to go for a ride in one - do i

BTW - I also would recommend slowing down your models before deploying flaps to lessen the pitching effect.

You most certainly can deploy flaps from cruising speed. As I recall flaps could be deployed at any speed. However, it might not be good for the airplane. What might happen could be a perminent, non-reversible, pitch down of the nose, which might last until the aircraft reached terra-firma.

Let me re-phrase that then. You "shouldn't" deploy flaps in most airplanes at cruising speed or landing gear either for that matter. To do so on some aircraft will result in in-flight structural failures, also known as "stuff being torn loose and blowing in the wind and falling away". This typically precedes an accident report of some sort and/or an NTSB investigation. Some aircraft also have sensors that will not allow this stupidity without due diligence by the idiot flying, also known as an "override" switch. There are many pilots who thought they were smarter than the engineers who designed the planes. You can find their remains scattered all over the countryside. This is not to say engineers don't make mistakes, that is another issue

any flaps outside the white arc is NOT good... only an idiot would do this...