Hello everyone......Could anyone share advice how to remove an aileron w/CA hinges?? I need to remove my left aileron on a Sig 4* to better secure the wire aileron torque rod. This rod has developed a good bit of play (up and down) and I need to reglue it back into the wing. The only way I can see to do this is cut the hinges into and then recut the slots once I am ready to reinstall.

Or should I just purchase new ailerons??

Thanks in advance.

Lamar

Just cut the CA hinges and then make new slots, in different locations, when you're ready to reattach them.

You could use the same slots if you get the nylon hinges with metal pins. I did that with a Sig Somethin Extra aileron and a Sig Kavalier aileron. I will never use CA hinges ever again with torque rods! Think about it- the rod is glued in the aileron at the wing root area. It has to twist the aileron all the way to the wing tip. If any of the CA hinges get brittle you end up warping the aileron up and down because the hinge resists flexing. Just use some epoxy to put the nylon hinges in. Then, drill a small hole through each side of the hinge and epoxy a piece of round toothpick to 'pin' the hinges into the wing and aileron. That keeps them from coming out if you didn't use enough epoxy, from stresses of flight, flutter, etc. You can cut a small piece of covering to cover the 'pin' holes. The best part of this method is that you can use the same slots, and your torque rod system will not suffer from CA hinges getting old, too much CA, or whatever.

Just my .02 worth from experience with what you are going through.....

i agree with blwblw i never use ca hinges i always use pinned hinges the ones where the pin is captured in the hinge not the ones where the pin is bent and you have to stick the bent part in the slot. i've repaired ailerons by pulling on the hinge and applying a bit of heat out it comes
good luck

here is a tip so you dont have to remove the aileron at all if you can locate the rod in the aileron you remove the balsa on the bottom side with a hobbie knife and fill the void with 6 min. epoxy to avoid the hassle of re hinging and you will be flying in 6 min. not sure what the knock on ca hinges is the work fine as long as you dont over glue them so they become brittle. used this on my NEXTAR after the rods loosened up worked perfect still tight if you want to cover the clear epoxy iorn a small patch I didnt

I like the idea of squirting CA into the torque rod slot and hole in the aileron. Work carefully and it'll be a good repair. Thin CA will wick in readily. Thick will fill any gaps.

Dr.1

I have used the methods listed in posts #5 & #6 depending upon how bad the situation had gotten. Both worked fine.

I have repaired a broken CA type hinge with the control surface in place.

One thing is for sure, you cannot put the new CA hinge exactly where the old one was. It has to be beide the original spot.

My observation on my high flight time planes with broken hinges, I considered it to be my fault because I had too much CA on the hinge causing it to break.

They typically break at the control link in the center or at the tip. They rarly break in the center.

Enjoy,

Jim

Thanks everyone,

OK...I removed the covering directly over where the aileron torque rod goes into the aileron. The balsa has been torn away exposing the rod...no wonder I had play in the aileron!! Now I am trying to fill this hole with think CA. Do you think it will hold up under the stress of the ailerons in flight??

Not sure....

Thanks,
Lamar

It may, I'd rather see you use epoxy. Harden the wood with a couple drops of thin CA and then use epoxy to fill the hole.

Good deal you followed that advice!

The torque rod is in a tube right?

If I were you, I would think awhile before using the CA. It can work but you better be very careful to insure it doesn't migrate to where the rod comes out of the tube. (How do I <grin> know this?) Epoxy is a really good glue to use sometimes instead of CA. It doesn't wick off places you don't want it to go.

But there is another thing to look at. If the wood right over/under the torque rod wasn't strong enough, then the wood to either side might not be strong enough to hold the blobs of CA for very long. You might just wind up with a torque rod with blobs of glue working up and down. Look at the whole area the rod is in, at the wood and try to figure out if you think the wood surrounding the rod needs to be strengthened. No value to doing the job and needing to do it again later.

And now........ let me advise against my first advice..... chuckle..... yeah, you might actually want to use some CA to strengthen the wood thats not directly in contact with the rod/tube. But be very careful where it can wick. And thin CA works best here, but of course it's the "wickingest" CA there is.

The best advice isn't always the simplest advice....

Ok...got it

The rod is really exposed or at least the half of it (end pointing into the aileron)

I have just applied the thin CA. Next I will try the 6 minute epoxy.

thanks

Lamar

No...No Tube!!!

The wood appears to be ok on the top side of the aileron as well as to the left and right. I am including a couple of pics for you to llook and see what you think.

I have already placed the thin CA on the wood and into the cavity. Gonna hold on the 6 minute Epoxy until we see if this is really what needs to be done.

The frustrating part is this plane has never flown......SIG wasn't much help either.


Thanks...very much!!

This can happen sometimes if you don't get the hole drilled exactly down the center of the aileron or if the hole is drilled too deep. Also if the aileron is "twisted" on against the linkage. Heck, it's just balsa. Whenever you drill one of these holes and are satisfied with the fit, go ahead and "toughen" it with a little CA. Let it cure well before putting the linkage back in the hole. You may need to freshen the hole with a drill afre the CA.

Do you think the Epoxy will hole the rod after looking at the pic??

Thanks a million

Lamar

hold the rod.....my goodness, my typing needs epoxy or something

thanks again

Use 30 minute epoxy mixed with microballons to fill in the hole you have there. Don't worry if you don't have microballons on hand, you can substitute corn starch and it will do exactly the same thing. First of all, secure the aileron in the center position. And also make sure that the torque rod is centered too. Mix up the epoxy and mix in the cornstarch/microballons. Fill the hole with the epoxy mix, make sure that you work the mix all around any gaps between the torque rod and the wood of the aileron, and then let it dry. You can then sand the epoxy smooth with the aileron surface and recover the area with covering material (monokote or ultracoat). I've made several repairs like this before they will hold up just fine in flight.

Hope this helps

Ken

Ken, what is a "Microballon"? I use "microballoons". Oops, Sorry I couldn't wait for Friday. [sm=bananahead.gif]

Hmmm, I think that I'm going to be out of town on friday!!!!! [:'(] [>:]

Ken

Micro balloons are like little tiny styrofoam balls that serve to thicken the epoxy so it does not run all around on the surface.

You can use corn starch or milled fiber instead but it weighs more.

Enjoy,

Jim

with the small amount of filling needed dont trip on micro baloons just make sure the rod is covered in epoxy looks like your channel needs to be a little longer not any wider. cut it to the edge of the aileron hinge side so you secure the rod fully if you don't bury the rod in epoxy you might get some loosening again after your repair. as noted in my post I only flew my plane a few times before the aileron started flapping I think its just ARF sloppiness I think mine wasn't glued in either

Has any one thought of using gorilla glue? thats stuff is great for filling voids and isn't a brittle as epoxy.....just my 2cents

The GorillaGlue sounds like it'd do something good for you by forcing penetration into the wood. BUT....

You guys who're experienced with it......... Would you slip some waxed paper into the aileron/wing slot to keep the glue from sticking the aileron to the wing? Or would you just watch it for awhile and wipe any that migrates out there?


BTW, he has already used CA, but my question is more about if he hadn't already........................................... ..

The CA was to harden/toughen the wood. I'd save the GG for another project and stick to epoxy here.