Hi,
I see that recommended second planes are Sig four star etc...
However, what qualities would make good second plane? Originally I was considering Hangar-9 Ultra Stick. Is it the lighter wing loading that would make a good second plane?

If that is the case then I found Hangar-9 Funtana with lower wing loading than Sig four star.

Thanks for your help

You'll get a bunch of answers.Try a Big Stik before the Ultra and I'll bet you'll have one in your hangar from now on!

It’s not just wing loading.

Second planes need to be fairly tough because they take a beating. I think they might get tougher treatment than a trainer, especially if the pilot moves to the second plane too soon. If a pilot goes to a second plane because of a crashed trainer, and doesn’t want to buy another trainer, the second plane will have to suffer through the learning curve.

This happened to my brother. I was with him at the field while he was flying his trainer. I had expressed interest in flying. We decided that I’d fly, playing “pass the transmitter.� At this point my brother had maybe 10 solo flights under his belt and we shouldn’t have done what we did. We were doomed from the start. I got the plane out of shape so bad that he couldn’t recover and it went in like a lawn dart. I was bothered by the crash; he just said, “Well, now we know how NOT to do it.� We stuffed it in a trash bag and stopped at the hobby shop on the way home. He wanted an Avistar, but, it was backordered at Hobbico; so he got a Big Stik 40. That poor plane took a beating but it was tough enough to survive. At first, he had to put the cg way forward and tone down the control throws. As he learned more he was able to move the cg and increase the throws.

I didn’t attempt flying again until I got my own stuff and hooked up with one of the club instructors

Four Star, Big Stik, Ultra Stick, Goldberg Tiger, (and similar planes) have fairly light wing loading and they are pretty tough. They can fly pretty slow and many people say they land a lot like trainers.

Funtana is built super light. I think many people would break the fuselage trying to land it if it was their first plane after a trainer.

carrellh is right. The prime requisite of a 2nd plane is that it
be rugged enough to survive the abuse it will get.

It also has to be aerobatic enough to hold your interest and
yet stable enough to keep you out of major trouble.

My favorite plane for this and the one I always recommend
is the Sig Midstar. This is a much better number 2 plane than
the often recommended 4 Star as it has none of the bad habits
the 4 Star is well known for. Its just as aerobatic as the 4 Star
but flies a little slower and has a slower roll rate.

This is a plane you can learn to FLY. Because you really
dont learn to fly with a trainer. You just learn how not
to crash.

As you might guess I had a Midstar for my 2nd plane and
I still have it 3 years later and still fly it. It survived many
bad landings and oopses.

Mike Hammer

One of our instructors highly recommends the Mid Star. It's too bad they don't offer it as an ARF as well as a kit (like they do the 4 stars). I like building kits but I'm really slow at it. And I know a lot of guys don't have the space to spread out along term project or cannot devote the time it takes (especially young guys with kids).

I choose the 4*60 because 1. tail dragger, 2. engine up front easy to play with, 3. good wing design semi etc. 4. SIG 5. easy to repair buy kit etc.. 6 should I continue. BTW I bought before I read any RCU posts PS.. it does fly as advertised
Rich

Jumping too far ahead of the learning curve is a fast way to find out just how little you still know about flying.
If you haven't trashed out your trainer you can sell the airframe or trade in at your LHS. and swap your stuff over to a high wing semi-symetrical trainer
that will allow you to have more fun without getting you in over your head
you guys that have been at this awhile will agree that you will have more planes then you can fly soon enough no need to run into trouble when you can walk.

What I'd look for in a second plane is something that will fly almost as slowly as a trainer, but with reduced self-righting ability. You should be able to set the controls to respond about like the trainer, then turn it up as you get used to the plane. A light wing-loading is one indicator of how slowly a plane will fly. The H9 Funtana may in fact fly slow, but it's likely to respond much faster than a trainer and have zero self-righting ability. The Sig SSE is the same--it could be a good second plane, but it won't get you out of trouble. It's not a bad idea to look for strong landing gear and maybe the ability to nose-over without damage.

If you`ve flown a high wing trainer with a flat bottomed wing, a logical move would be to something ( high or low wing ) with a semi-symetrical wing. If you want to stay with something that you might be familiar with ( high wing ) yet offers better performance, IMHO it`s hard to beat an Avistar. With a good 46 up front it`s an excellent basic aerobatic airplane and a bit more demanding, though not greatly. Hear good things about the Midwest Aerobat as well.

I teach quite a lot and see students making good progress on a fun fly type model with the movements restricted to mild deflections.

Disadvantages include they are difficult to steer on the ground and are a little fragile.

But they fly slowly, land slowly and are not likely to tip stall even if treated badly.

Flying for 5+ years now. Here's my experience:
I started out with a TT 40 size trainer. Before that I was messing with a simulator that was controlled by the mouse. That tought me that orientation part. I flew that trainer twice with an instructor and soloed after that. After a few months I was flying the trainer upside down around the field, pulling hammerheads with ease, and doing every stunt that I could possibly think of. I even tried to get it to do pattern flight. Didn't work.
My second plane was a mid-wing jumping geo that some old guy had build. I chose that plane because I wanted something that turns sharper and performs tricks better.
With the trainer, I ripped off the firewall many times. That was the only damage I did to it.
The only thing that ever got damaged on the geo was the covering and recently on a aileron cuz a dog attack.
My advice is fly the trainer until it is very easy to land. I disagree about making sure the plane is extremely stout. Ask an instructor if you can try his different planes. If you like one...

Hello!
I have soloed for 28 times now, and I can do lots of tricks and stuff. Now my question is: Can I use this plane (http://www.nitroplanes.com/pwa60arfaufu.html) as a second plane. I like the war birds very much, and I really want one. But when you guys say that I should get another plane first, then I will do that. I don't wanna crash with such a beautiful plane!!!

thanks, Tom

My vote would be no well I guess you could buy it if you have the money and work on it slowly
and get a next step airplane and fly the wings off it. The scale planes like warbirds can be a challange
that you would probably have more sucess and enjoy much more later on in your flying carreer

I would highly reccomend not getting a warbird or a full-symmetrical plane for your second plane. I learned to fly on an LT-40 and it was a beautiful plane to fly. My second plane was a SIG Kavalier that i picked up at an auction. it was so old that i t had a kraft AM radio system and an Enya 45 engine that came with it. I replaced all the electronics, flew it with the Enya and it flew awesome. semi-symmetrical, high wing design. an excellent second plane

oke, off course it's a waste of money when I schould buy it and crash it immediatly. I will look for a good second plane.

Thanks!!!

The nitroplanes site says something like “flies like an aerobatic sports model.�
Not sure what that actually means but I’d be afraid of any war bird as a second plane; with the possible exception of a PT-19 or other military ‘primary trainer.’

The other thing that would scare me away from the nitroplanes models is the fact that they have fiberglass fuselages. If you do have a crash or other mishap, repairing damaged fiberglass is totally different than repairing wood. Getting a good repair probably would require adding a lot of weight. Maybe I’m wrong about that.

My brother got a 40 size Kyosho AT-6 as a 3rd plane. The full scale AT-6 was notorious for tip stalling on takeoff or landing. Kyosho built this trait into their model; I guess it really was pretty scale. I think he got about 6 flights before it stalled on takeoff; shredding the fiberglass fuselage.

flightom,
I can understand your desire to get into warbirds. Some of them can be just plain "sexy". There are some great looking planes out there. But there are a few things to keep in mind. First of all look at the full scale warbirds. These planes are almost always designed to be fast, maneuverable, and hard to see. Almost all of these characteristics stay with the plane when they are scaled down to our size. In the past this has almost always been true. In the last few years there has been a push by some companies to make warbirds a little bit easier to handle. The first that comes to mind would be Hanger 9. They have come out with several very good warbirds that actually fly more like sport acrobatic planes. I just finished doing a review of the Hanger 9 P-40 for RCU (unfortunately the review hasn't been posted in the [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/]RCU Magazine[/link] yet). But I can tell you that it didn't fly as much like a warbird as it did a sport acrobatic plane. It was a very well behaved warbird. But not all of the companies out there are doing the same thing with their warbirds that Hanger 9 has been. I don't know that much about Nitro Planes right now, so I couldn't say whether they are good or not.

With all of that in mind you really need to ask yourself if you are ready for a hot sport plane, because a warbid is going to be at least that hard to fly. If you haven't flown your second or third plane yet you may want to wait for a bit before moving into a warbird. Flying a [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXH756&P=0]Goldberg Tiger II[/link], a [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFG18&P=7]Sig Something Extra[/link], or a [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCHY3&P=0]Sig 4-[/link]Star would be a good start in getting ready for a warbird. Once you are comfortable flying those you might be ready to move up to the warbird.

Good luck. Here are a few shots from the review I did of the P-40

Hope this helps

Ken

tom - i went from an avistar, to a 4*60, to a tower hobbies uproar, and then to a p-51d and i'll not twitch the first bit when i tell you that the mustang is the cream of crop. fast, maneuverable, fun to fly, eye catching at the field, and did i mention fast? this plane still intimidates me a bit. i still won't fly it in winds over 10mph.

By the time you fly your second plane you should be able to fly mild aerobatics like loops, rolls, cuban eights, hammerheads and do perfect landings and take offs with the trainer.

I recommended a Funtana 90 as a second plane to a friend. He is a good pilot and has never crashed his trainer. As long as the control throws are at a reasonable percent it is a docile plane. However, this plane is a beotch to fly in any wind and absolutely no fun to land in a 10 mph crosswind.

I would recommend a four star, Tiger 2, super sportster, Hobbico 60 high wing trainer or be able to add a few pounds of ballast to the F90 on a windy day. By the time you fly your second plane you should be able to fly mild aerobatics like loops, rolls, cuban eights, hammerheads and do perfect landings with the trainer.