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Old 09-25-2006 | 09:58 PM
  #26  
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?


ORIGINAL: bruce88123

A "balked" landing is an "aborted" landing or a "go-around". In other words, you've thought better of the situation and decided not to complete the landing cycle for whatever reason. Brave (stupid) people land no matter what, smart people go-around and keep their plane in one piece. Naturally, not an option on a dead stick. I try to have my students landing before they run out of fuel so they can go-around if needed. There is absolutely no shame in admitting you messed up an approach.
Bruce,
I was one of those "brave" people when I stalled the Kadet Senior on short final and cartwheeled it in half...I have now learned to "go-around"...I abort every landing approach that I'm not completely comfortable with...hence my tag line.....: LANDING!!!...maybe!!! and if you were at my field, you would hear me call it just like that every time I'm about to come in on final.
Bev
Old 09-25-2006 | 11:20 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

Lots of good advice here, especially the practice. One thing I didn't see mentioned that really helped my landings is CG placement. I flew my 4* a few years as it came off the table. I tried moving the CG back a bit, every aspect of flying was improved. I kept moving the CG back a bit at a time. I realized I moved CG too far back when the plane would flare forever, then stall and plop to the ground. At that point I moved the CG forward again untill the stall and plop was eliminated. The plane was initially in the recommended CG range, but flies better with it moved rearward a bit.
The way it is now requires only a touch of up elevator for inverted flight. I didn't realize how important CG location was until I played with it. I did a bunch of touch and goes in heavy wind the last couple nights and getting it to stall about the time the wheels were hitting the pavement.
Practice doesn't make perfect, but it does make better.
Have fun, MikeB
Old 09-25-2006 | 11:24 PM
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?


Bev,

DO NOT try this until you are very confident in your ability to handle a plane, but it’s a great test at using all the controls at once (an one of my favorites). Set up on a high approach and slow the plane until almost at full up elevator, then hold just enough power to keep it from stalling (controlled slow flight) and try to keep the decent as vertical as possible until it just above the ground when you give it enough power to transition to a smooth landing. When done in enough wind it gives the appearance that the plane is hovering since it has no forward ground speed, but does have forward airspeed. You have to be confident in your flying skills and your ability to feel what the plane is doing since you are flying right on the edge of a stall very close to the ground. You also have to be ready to immediately fly out of this condition if the approach doesn’t look right or something starts going wrong. This really teaches you how to control the throttle, and really all the controls simultaneously. Go up 2 mistakes high and work on slow flight at the edge of a stall and you’ll quickly get the hang of it and be able to fly all around the field right on the edge of the stall, but in full control. Learning how to do this will save the bacon some day when you get into a bad situation like on a dead stick landing and avert that dreaded classic maneuver, the stall/spin/crash-n-burn.

Did you work much on slow flight (minimum controllable airspeed, or Vmc) and stalls, learning how the plane behaves and learning signs of an impending stall with your Kadet?

What else is fun is to put a target on the runway for the nose wheel (or tail wheel) to land on, and score points based on how close you get to the target, subtracting points for a forward roll, or score a zero if the center line moves outside of either main landing gear. The Sig Kadet Sr ARF if great for doing this. Bonus points for a tail dragger that touches only the tail wheel on the target then goes around. The added benefit is you learn to land the plane where you want it, not where it wants to land.

Bruce,

Now I remember about the 208 designation – it was in one of the magazines (AOPA?) Cessna originally was going to call the 8 place version a 208 but didn’t. I think this was because the Caravan was lurking around and given that designation instead, so they just did a mod on the 207 instead to add the 8th seat. Their original intent was to call each one for the number of seats – hence 206 as 6 place, 207 as 7 place and 208 as 8 place.

Hogflyer
Old 09-26-2006 | 07:17 AM
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

ORIGINAL: hogflyer


Bruce,

Now I remember about the 208 designation – it was in one of the magazines (AOPA?) Cessna originally was going to call the 8 place version a 208 but didn’t. I think this was because the Caravan was lurking around and given that designation instead, so they just did a mod on the 207 instead to add the 8th seat. Their original intent was to call each one for the number of seats – hence 206 as 6 place, 207 as 7 place and 208 as 8 place.

Hogflyer
If I recall, the C-207 had a little sideways facing seat in the back and the C-208 got a full bench seat in the back row.

You're not implying the C-210 was a 10 seater are you? [:@]
Old 09-26-2006 | 08:43 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

I suspect on the theory of the last digit the number of seats they would have had problems with the duplication of models. I can't see a viable recip single short of a big honkin radial being able to seat more than 8 - even that big 8 cylinder IO-720 I don't think would be able to do it.

That was just some of the info I remember from the magazine article. By the way, wasn't the early 210A a 4 seater?

Hogflyer
Old 09-26-2006 | 09:16 AM
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?


ORIGINAL: hogflyer

I suspect on the theory of the last digit the number of seats they would have had problems with the duplication of models. I can't see a viable recip single short of a big honkin radial being able to seat more than 8 - even that big 8 cylinder IO-720 I don't think would be able to do it.

That was just some of the info I remember from the magazine article. By the way, wasn't the early 210A a 4 seater?

Hogflyer
My data shows it was introduced as a 6-seater
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_210 in 1957

It is scheduled to be replaced by the Cessna NGP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_NGP
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTy...Erst/PRNGP.htm
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/new_cessna2.jpg
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive.../687-full.html
Old 09-26-2006 | 09:22 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

For some reason my mind wants to think the A model was a four seater - had something to do with the weight of the retracts and the wheel well taking up the space behind the seat (where they added the additional seats to the 205 - if you can call them seats, more like kiddie booster seats). I've tried to search out the A model, but only find planes for sale with no interior pictures, or info on the later strutless models that did seat 6. The firewall here at work blocks a lot sites due to virus and security concerns.

Hogflyer
Old 09-26-2006 | 09:41 AM
  #33  
 
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

I've found several for sale with 4 place intercoms which tend to indicate 4 seats.
Found this ad http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0048724/L/
Interesting note I found in another story is that same owner died this year when he flew this plane into a major thunderstorm. Plane disintegrated about him in flight. Debris spread across 3 fields. Former X-15 test pilot. Should have known better. []
Old 09-26-2006 | 11:14 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

Scott Crossfield died when his 210A crashed while flying through a level 6 sever thunderstorm. He should not have been flying in that weather when he hit an imbedded t-strm.
Old 09-26-2006 | 11:52 AM
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Default RE: etBouncing Landings - Cure?

That kind of weather beats on a commercial airliner pretty heavy. They can survive it but what a ride for the passengers, forget about drink service. Gonna email you some pictures of wx damage to a B-727.

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