While there are flight clubs around, I can't seem to time things to hook up with an instructor, and when I do, the weather seems to be bad. I work a lot and have young kids, it's all my fault (of course); the instructors I've worked with are great, but the problem is still real. I've been trying this for three months, and only been able to get in three lessons (2 flights per lesson).

I'm at the point of putting my gear in the Attic, or going it alone.
I have a large field I can fly at during lunch time during the week; I've had three lessons, but have never landed in lessons (although I have snuck in three flights solo, only two of them had successful landings, but the plane is fixed and checked out now).

I know this is the outlaw approach, and I really didn't want to do it this way, but i'm either going to hang it up, or go it alone I think. I don't want to use my .40 and .60 size trainers like disposable razer's.... If I go it alone, any suggestions what I should fly? Or is this so far out there I should just put my gear in the Attic and try again in a few years (then what will I spend my time thinking about.....)

Thanks for any comments

Where in Texas are you located?

Stick with it!

I sympathize. I work a lot of weekends, my wife works and I've got rug-rats as well. Between the 3 "W"s ...Work, Weather, Wife (ie family comitments)..., I am lucky to get 1 weekend out of three or four to fly. This time of year is especially frustrating as the weather can be ugly for quite a stretch... and of course it's always ugly when you have a free weekend! (haven't flown in about 6 weeks now....)Even if you can't fly because of the kids, you can always go up to the field with them (just remember to keep them safe!) and enjoy the conversation. You can learn a lot just by watching!

We've all reached plateaus (plateaux?) and not seemed to get any better at it and then all of a sudden, you make that first "greaser" landing or go a whole flight without the instructor yelling"I've got it". We've all spent the first flight after a month or two off relearning what we've forgotten since last time.

Stick with it!

Okay, I know I'm going to get bashed for this, but I'd rather you try the following before you hang it up. In this order!

1) If you can't find an 'instructor', see if you can hook up with someone from the club that has a good deal of experience and you can use a buddy box. Let them teach you to fly.

2) Try another club in your area, if possible, difficult I know.

3) GET HIGH and gain some altitude! Slowly and meticulously find your planes stall speed, meaning where the stick is when you can’t climb out and it drops. REMEMBER that position!

4) OK, you state you've had 3 decent flights with possibly some 'rough' landings. If you MUST go it alone, fly on the calmest day possible, make sure batteries are FULLY charged, and practice taxing the plane at this large field.
•Now PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, making approach landings at about 200 ft altitude.
•First go downwind, make your upwind turn, then your final leg, keeping altitude, and pretend you’re going to land. Get a good feel for your planes tendencies. Are you comfortable with it, if not try again.
•OK, once comfortable, we want to execute a fake landing. Meaning you are going to pretend the deck is at 50 feet. Set up as previously stated, and ‘land’ the plane at that 50 foot imaginary runway. Now come around again, but this time, I want you to keep the speed up (less than ½ throttle or whatever is just above stall, remember the decent is going to give you some speed)
•Just before you touch down, or if you’re not comfortable with the approach, give her about ¼ throttle, and pull up gently. Make another attempt.
•As long as you keep a decent enough speed and there is minimal enough wind, you should be able to set up for a good landing.

NOW keep in mind I have NEVER seen you plane, checked for balance, range check, linkage check, etc., etc., etc.,….are you getting my drift?

Good luck, and hang in there. This is an AWESOME sport! Not a hobby, as I feel hobbies are something you do to pass the time…HEY are we passing the time or having FUN!?!?!

Wiqar

<I don't want to use my .40 and .60 size trainers like disposable> <razer's.... If I go it alone, any suggestions what I should fly?>

One word -- SPAD
Though I do not advocated going it alone, and I highly recommend that you hook up with a instructor that can work with your schedule.
But-- if you must be self taught, a simple spad trainer will be MUCH more durable, and cheap to fix or replace when the inevitable crashes happen that you will have going it alone. If you build your own SPAD, repairs will become a "non event" money wise compared to a blasa trainer. Check out the Spad forum here on RCU. You can find lots of info and links to invaluable sources of SPAD plans etc.

Again, I am not advising you to self train, but at least with the SPAD you wont be destroying an 80 to 150$ kit every time you learn by your mistakes. Balsa planes + no instructor= an expensive learning curve, usually resulting in frustration and walking away from the hobby.

Good luck,
Dwight Hayden

Don't screw around with a forty powered glow model if you are going to fly at a park. At best you only irritate the neighbors, at worst, you kill someone.

The ONLY thing that makes sense in a park situation is electric. IF you want a "real" airplane, as opposed to a toy like a wingo/fungo/firebird, get something like a Bloody Mary or Miss Bohemia from Hobby Lobby. Properly set up, both of them will fly free flight style from a hand launch and your job is just to keep them in the general vicinity. After a few flights, you'll start to figure out how to keep it close in and at low altitude, and after that you can work on spot landings, precision flying and ROG take offs.

SPADS are great---at a regular flying field, but DO not fly a forty powered glow model of any kind at a municipal park unless it is also a designated flying site.

i think a good fix would be to buy a flight simulator to practise when you cannot make it to the flight line.

Thanks for all the comments: Just to clarify a few points:

- I'm located in Austin, finding a club and instructor isn't the problem, it's hooking up with them (it seems most instructors I've talked to are retired, or at least partially retired).

- Three W's, work, wife, weather, I like that... I think I'll use it...

- Kevlar thanks for the tips, fortunately my plane has been trimmed out by an instructor, and I have flown a few times and have full appreciation for that detail.

- Secondchildhood, thanks I'll check out spads, I like the cost. Of course and ARF takes me 6 weeks to complete....

- I agree about flying at parks, I fly over farmland that is actually clearer of roads etc than the local field I've been to.

- I've got RF, and have around 15 hours on it.

I'm thinking about ordering a zagi, what do you think, would the experience transfer over?

Thanks again for all the helpful comments

If the intructors are retired, I'd try to get one of them to commit to an intensive session when you could take a few days off from work. I'd bet that if you have decent eyesight, good reflexes and can chew gum while walking, that you could get the basics down in this amount of time and then practice whenever it is convenient for you at your farm field. Two or three days in a row would help you a lot more than once every week or so for months. Come on down to La Porte and I'll solo you.

<- Secondchildhood, thanks I'll check out spads, I like the cost. Of course and ARF takes me 6 weeks to complete....
- I agree about flying at parks, I fly over farmland that is actually clearer of roads etc than the local field I've been to. >

Some of the basic SPADS can be built in a couple of evenings, at a cost of less than $15 (not counting the RC equipment and engine) if you are able to get used coro signs free from a
local quickie mart. Even if you buy the coroplast material it is around $10 for a 4 x 8 sheet. More than enough to build a couple of 40 size planes.
Farmland flying is great for beginners, just watch out for the fresh cowpies when landing, they are really hard to clean out of a engine
I cant comment on the ZAGI as I've never flown one myself.
In any case, be safe, and have a friend with you, both as an observer/ spotter, and to video any spectacular cartwheels or other unplanned meetings with the earth. Self taught isn't going to be easy, but it has been done -

Good luck, and keep us posted
Dwight Hayden

I give flight training . But look where I am at . It is hard to get a instructor to help you when the weather is so nice . They would rather crash their own plane rather than YOURS. I love to give instruction but most people thin I am to old.
If you can not get a instructor to help you the only other way is a sim. Practice every thing on it till it gets borring, then go back and do it again. When you crash on a sim and you feel like you crashed the real thing you are ready to fly. PRACTICE PRACTICE.
Don't give up have been flying for 55years and love it . Next to wife 46years.

Dave,

I know your predicement well. I have four kids who want to do everything from dancing, to horseriding on the weekends. (Why can't they all just be interested in rc planes) I manage a transport company so have a cell phone ringing all day everyday with trucks coming and going, and then on top of that when I do get out to the field I sit there waiting for the wind to calm down enough to maybe get a flight in as Im to scared to fly in all but the calmest of conditions.
Thats why Ive decided to build a basic SPAD (The one with the ali angle for a fuselage with a v-tail, I think its called the HOR) No landing gear just a throw in the air and fly job. That way I can practice fliyng and landing, no matter what the wind conditions and without worrying about the cost of replacing my plane when I crash it. When it is calm and I have more confidence I will fly my trainer which hopefully will stay in one piece. So far i have been out to the field every weekend for three weeks in a row, sometimes as early as 5am and still havent left the ground. When it is still Im stuck doing Kiddie things.
I did at one stage think should I just give up but then I said to myself "Whats the rush". It doesnt really matter how long it takes me to learn to fly. My two boys are only young so its a few years before they would even be able to fly anyway, so Ive got all this time to get good at it so I can hopefully be their instructors one day and give them all the instruction time they need to become good flyers. (If not they could always go horseriding with the girls.)

Regards,

Troy.

Troy you have come a long way keep up the good posts. May many learn by your experiences. WITH RCU.

outlaw, Thanks for the comments... wow, 55 years!

Troy, Thanks for the empathy! I think I may look more into spad, as you and secondchildhood recommend.

I went by home depot and lowes today, neither have the square PVC... I'm sure there are threads on that very subject though... I'll look it up.

Oh yeh, TexasBird, Thanks for the invite... I have family in League City, not too far from your neck of the woods...

ah... kids are asleep now....

Heck, if you have private farmland to fly over, build a spad and fly the devil out of it. Get a cheap, bushed 40 engine and when you do run it into a cow pie, sluice it off with the hose and try 'er again.

Using a Zagi as a self taught trainer is a poor idea, although very rugged it does not function well as a trainer. For an electric it is quite fast and orientation can be difficult because of its configuration (goes with the territory when using flying wings).

John

When I began flying I purchased the Realflight g-2 simulator. Awesome software. After a few days playing around on the computer I took my trainer out to the local field for the first time and was taking off and landing. I sold that same simulator to two other guys who were interested with the same basic outcome. Id say it will save you at least a few hundred dollars in lost a/c. Goodluck!!
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../gpmz4203.html

I had a similar problem hooking up with an instructor last summer. I ended up getting only 2 "instructor" flights before finding a club member that was willing to help me. He only had a year of experience but that was more than enough to get my trainer up and down safely. I drove him nuts for two weeks and concentrated on landings (at my insistence) on every flight. By flight #9 I was competent enough to go solo, and I since put at least 100 flights on that plane without a real crash.

I think the key to fast learning is to concentrate on landing practice! The approach in the response by Kevlar above is exactly the one I used. Each training flight consisted of almost nothing but landing passes, and each time I had everything lined up right I set the plane down, taxied back and took off again. My "stand-in instructor" took control on a few poor approaches during the first couple of flights, but after that he just held the button and watched, just in case...

If you already landed it twice by yourself without problems you are not far from being there!

Thanks for all the continued comments...

I think I'm going to try a spad, and proceed ahead; I'll fly at the field when I have time to supplement my learning curve.

Any recomendations for SPAD ARF makers / models? I looked at the list at spadtothebone, but rather than chance it and pick one, a recomendation would be prefered.

Also, I think I'll order parts to build my own, I suppose the Debenier (spelling??) is the way to go for a quick build? Any other recomendations? I woulnd' t mind working on a 2nd plane class spade while I'm ordering PVC and corogate...

Thanks!

I would think the DEB would be a good choice, but go the the SPAD forum on RCU and post your question there. The guys on there will be very helpful in recommending their choice for you.
Never hurts to have a second opinion

Main thing is build a plane with some dihedral and the bigger the better to my way of thinking. (Easier to see) Also, dont make the mistake of trying to make it pleasant to the eye when on the ground when chosing colors and trim. Try to get very bright colors and definetly different color from the bottom of the plane compared to the topside. Ugly yellows, and pea greens as well as flourescents or neons for trim may not look good up close, but sure do help identify orientation when the plane is in the air. For a beginner this is important.

Dwight Hayden

dave0101_again

The Debonair is a great trainer; very forgiving. Although it is a fairly easy build, you might want to get some assistance if there is an experienced SPAD builder in the area - lotsa little tricks and techniques that take a little while to master. The HOR (Hell on Rails) is an easy build, but might be a bit of a handful as a first trainer. It can be built with a Debonair style wing which should be a great flier. The HOR doesn't use gutterpipe for a fuse; just aluminum channel.

In addition to the SPAD forum at RCU and www.spadtothebone.com , you should check out http://spadworld.net/ and http://www.rccombat.com/forum_2000/f...sp?FORUM_ID=22

Have fun

Ross

I think this is a good choice.

although not a beginners plane it can fly rather docile at low speeds. and you having a few flights shouldnt have much trouble.

the hardest thing you probably will have with it is the launch. you will need to toss it, then gain control of it, then add power. once you get it down its no problem but can be a bit confusing to someone new.

if you cover it in two diffrent colors it will help with orientation. I recently gave mine one red elevon and one green so that I have a better Idea of the direction its flying (I put it in once due to my loosing track.)

to land just cut power (dont want to touch with the prop going) and bring it in close to the ground, then just let it bump the ground and it will stop. you have to TRY to hurt these to do any damage.

again they are not a trainer and may be hard for you to get used to but they are so much fun (esp when you got 3 people up in the air with them all trying to "tag" each other.) and it will last you for a long time.

Gee, building a SPAD from a kit (if there were any) would kinda spoil the whole thing. Spads are the bad boys, the outlaws, the fly to live, live to fly comancheros on the ragged edge of civilization.

SPAD flyers get the bike spokes, the girls, the beer. These are the guys who built the Phoenix, (the real ones they built for the movie), They are Glenn Curtis in his June Bug, rattling along with out ailerons, they are Cal Rodgers in the Vinn Fizz, flying coast to coast regardless of how many times he had to crash to do it. They are Otto Lilienthal harnessed to Bamboo and bedsheets, jumping off a cliff, Slim Lindbergh on his first parachute jump, Jimmy Doolittle's boys ditching off the china coast...

you should be a writer... very poetic... I think I get your drift...

Ha!!!! That was really good ctdahle