Well I guess I'm somewhat of a newbie. I've been flying a tower .40 trainer for a few weeks.. Had a hobbico airvista which was flown 3 times. The last one into a tree (always get a trainer to help learn!).. Well then came G3 and I basically learned to fly on the computer. My field designated trainer turned me loose after maybe 3 or 4 flights. That included landing and taking off. Ok so the G3 really helps! Take note.. But with that G3 comes a problem at least for me.. Watching the guys fly their 100cc yaks, edge 540's and the like.. Well G3 will let you learn somewhat to play and do some 3D playing.. But there is the little red button where as with a real plane you don't .. Ok now for why I'm writing this post.. I outgrew my trainer within a few weeks (probably days).. I'll be the first one to say the tower trainer is fantastic.. Ok the monokote is never tops with an ARF in my book, but a great plane.. As a trainer.. This thing, nor many trainers I'll bet won't hold up to the abuse of someone trying to push it a bit.. My story...... Well 2 days ago at the field I was flying then passed the controller to my field trainer which is teaching my father (gave him my G3 too!).. Well after his flight I decided to have just one more before I left.. So doing rolls, stalls, trying to hover a TT (definatly not close to the ground) well after abusing the plane for a few mins. Now I've been flying this way for a few flights.. Well on a routine turn the wing halves broke apart and it made a nice little crater from 150 ft in the air.. So as a little friendly advice is of course start with a trainer, but upgrade before you start to get tricky. Hanger 9 mustang may be a good 1st choice. Luckily I had to buy a 2nd one after a tree ran out in front of me.. Needed the wing, so I have a spare fuselage and the wing since it was trailing the plane on the way down is repairable.. So no cost other than parts on hand.. The day before my sukhoi took a hard landing after some engine problems and too slow of a landing. Of course it was it's maiden flight. So keep on your toes and practice with the G3!!!!

Just a small piece of advice from a non newbie before someone is mislead by your advice.

In my opinion, the only thing that has been out grown is your ego, I'll explain....

From personal experience, there's nothing more frustrating for an "instructor" to have spent several weeks, or even months with a student and his "trainer" only to be told by the student over and over how ready he is to solo. When he finally does, he's all excited and everyone congratulates him...yada yada. The next week at the field the former student shows up with his brand new Matt Chapman Cap or an Extra 300 ARF and goes home with a brand new self made kit.

It seems in your weeks (or probably days) your instructor was a bit premature in letting you loose to solo. From your description you have bought and wrecked 3 airplanes in a few weeks.

I can teach a Cub Scout to make a plane go up, down, left, and right, but experience and practice is the only thing that will consistently get an airplane home in one piece.

See above comment.

A little practice with an iron and a heat gun and you'll write a new book.

Trainers, especially club trainers, are some of the most abused airplanes at the field. My trainer was abused for years before I got it, and it got abused for several months after I soloed. I still take it out once in a while and abuse it.

Nothing should be routine after only a few weeks (days). A pre-flight may have caught a problem here. Also, experience with some fiberglass in the center section would have prevented it. Although, no airplane will survive when it is constantly pushed beyond its limits by a pilot that don't know the limits of either the plane nor himself.

Start with a trainer, then continue with a trainer until you think you can get tricky. Practice some more with your trainer, then gradually attempt to get tricky. Then once you think your ready to "upgrade", start the routine over using the same trainer and practice. After a few months you can discuss an upgrade with an instructor (not the same one that turned you loose in a few weeks (days) and see what advice you get from him, then listen to him.

I've never felt that lucky. If it was another pilot or a kid in the parking area I'm sure you wouldn't either.



After the heat gun, the iron, and the fiberglass books, some engine tuning and fuel tank mounting books may be in order. Also, a few hundred more landings with the trainer may have helped soften this landing.

Imagine that...

[:@] [:@] [:@]

I'm a whiz on Madden 2006 but I don't think I'm going to drop by Ford Field and walk on as the Detroit Lions quarterback. (wait a minute.....)

I don't really mean to be harsh here but I've seen this same story happen too many times. What you see as improvement and upgrading, I see as getting ahead of yourself and it will eventually lead to frustration or even an accident involving other people.

"Trainers are boring" is a common statement, but they sure are a lot more fun than making "nice little craters".

Got to agree with Rebsix on this one. [:@]

Owned.

Its not being harsh here, IF new comers would have read this a believe it they would have been trough alot of planes

I am sure fastinated truely believes his statements. I just want to say to fastinated, do not be discouraged by the comments you have recieved. While I agree with Rebsix's interpritation I also understand where you are coming from. I trashed a few planes and only had my trainer left. So I was forced to fly it. I then built a sporty little SPAD and started really learning. If you can fly a twitchy SPAD you can fly almost anything. Just stick around here and you will pick up a lot, 6-7 months from now you will be reading some guys post and think; "that might not be all right." No harm no foul.

Guess I should have elaborated a bit more on my flying experiences. My "weeks" are hours upon hours of flights and it's probably been over a month since I've been burning a gallon of fuel every week and a half (maybe more).. But YES I AM STILL A NEWBIE!! I've got a fantastic job so I'm at the field.. gosh.. maybe 30+ hrs a week(I'm hooked!!) being myself and the field instructor and a few retired guys during weekdays. Mostly just the trainer and I or just myself.. I don't do weekends b/c it is too crowded. My intention with this is there are us that pick this hobby up quick. Yes I have tore up some stuff, but hey I can afford it.. So what do you say to guys that don't have the funds to buy airplanes as they wish??? Tell them to get a cheap trainer and grow out of it possibly in a "short" time like myself and crash twice b/c of it???.. Or spend $60 more and get the mustang or something similar??? Say someone in highschool.. Do you think they have funds to buy multiple planes, trailers to haul planes around like alot of you "oldbies" I do see alot of advise here that's "hey my way is the best". Well guys that's not always the case.. So my message was for someone to read my story and if they are like me then it may give some useful help after all thats what these forums are for right??. I've been into R/C for probably 20 years. Cars and boats for the longest time and a few years ago helicopters. Just for the convienience of my own yard. So yes I have some experience.. Going from helicopters to airplanes may have helped, but they are two different worlds on that note, so it's hard to justify that as experience. As for the plane itself.. This was my learning experience about what the plane can handle. Hense me talking about it.. I'm not here to tell new guys to go out on their own.. Get an instructor.. My 1st plane the Airvista was destroyed my 3rd flight b/c I did it all on my own and that was maybe 4 years ago (hence the get a trainer comment). Took a break for a while.. And my sukhoi I built that 12+ years ago as a static, but built it 100% with an engine/radio. The sukhoi costed $2.50 for a new firewall, no big deal. It was a hard landing not a crash... No instructor, no field was my problem with the Airvista (which is a pretty trainer that I don't think they sell anymore)... Learning to fly can be done on your own, but expect to visit your LHS or have your credit card ready to order some parts or a new plane. So Rebsix your advise doesn't apply to me.. I can tune an engine, but that doesn't mean "dead sticks" don't happen even to experienced fliers.. RIGHT??. And YES G3 can help tremendously!!!!! I'll stand by that!!!! I'm sure alot of the 3D guys can tell you that. Practice moves where you can reset, not rebuild. My 2 ARF's the covering was nothing like the covering I did myself! So that's my comment there. My tower trainer has lost most of the stripes, maybe b/c of the glow fuel, there's my reason for that comment. A preflight won't find damage that hasn't occured yet. Hmmm imagine that!

So if it works for you then fine if not then hey it's a forum pick as you choose. I'm not 15 here guys... 30's.... So guys yes you can learn 100% on your own for a price... Yes you can learn this hobby quick if you have determination, basic knowledge, someone to help you out, simulators, whatever else. Shame sharing a story can lead to someone being rude and saying I have an ego problem when all I was doing was sharing my experience on how good the sim is and how a trainer is not meant for not much more than just that... training.. Go back and read what I wrote....


You know I think I posted something years ago about my story about learning on my own. Here I understand that fields and instructors are just not available to everyone so I told my story with hopes someone would benefit from my story.. Only to come back and see what was posted.... Guess what.... The same crap! Jeez!

So I stand by it.. Yes I'm new to planes, yes I do have many hours of flying them, have I seen it all? No... Do I put anyone in danger when I fly.. HELL NO! My field has a terrific instructor.. He never would have let me on my own without knowing I can handle it... Yes I landed and took off on my own the first day I flew.. That's me. My father is learning, but never being into R/C it's taking him longer.. Plus he's using my plane so we're "sharing time".... Is it possible to be on a faster learning curve.. YES! I feel like I'm not done here b/c I'm irritated..

I think I'm going to order my 33% extra!! My ego needs it!

Thanks Mr67stang!! Glad someone can be nice.. Took me so long to write that last comment so you must have sent that while I was writing my novel.

Remember all this is the internet.. There are many people here and many more each day.. The next guy may not be the guy you tried to show how to fly and took "months".... And advice is not limited to guys that can fly... A newbie can help a newbie. My instructor did offer to take the controls on his 100cc yak.. granted I didn't want to $2500 is alot of someone elses money.. He was trying to get me to upgrade to a gasser b/c as we all know alot of glow flying can be expensive!

Thanks again!!

[sm=lol.gif] I've been in this Sport for 3 years, and I'm still a Newbie! Every flight is a new experience for me. I finally Solo'd at my club after 3 flights with the instructor. And I wasn't the one who determined that I was ready to Solo... HE WAS!

Why I learned so quickly to begin with was because I flew full sized planes for 15 years, and flew model planes for a year before I joined a club.

To this day, If I felt the littlest inclination or was told that I couldn't handle my plane, or I was too scared about a maiden, I wouldn't hesitate to ask my Instructor to test my plane out for me. And I would not think twice to hook up the "Buddy Box" If I had to.

I lost quite a bit of money by flying on my own and doing it my way, and flying at places that weren't really made for R/C Planes. So in the Nutshell, I'm glad I joined a Club and humbled myself enough to say I don't know anything. And the more I'm around this Sport, I'm starting to realize I don't.

It is my experience, that most of the crashes is from sure lack of experience, or not paying attention to details. Some people are so smart, you can't tell them anything, because they know more than you or me with a little experience. They make a couple of flights on a trainer, then think they can handle a Warbird or a Advanced Plane.

Some Newbies with EGO's are so bad, they'll blame the Plane, before they blame themselves. Well, it's there money, and not mine... it is a shame.

Not to stereotype... and to set a example, you get a bunch of 70-75 year Old Geezers with a EGO. Or Newbies getting together with a bunch of Warbirds or Advanced Planes, 6 out of 10 you're bound to see a crash. It takes quick reflexes to fly some of these planes, and they are not forgiving when you screw up. I used to fly a 1948 J-3 Cub all the time during the 80's. When I flew my first R/C Cub, it wasn't the same, why? Because I wasn't in it, and there is no " Fly by the seat of your pants!"

From my experience, people who flew the full sized birds learn faster than people who don't know the basics in flight. But even though I have had 387 hours or more in full size planes, I knew enough to take other peoples suggestions when I got into this Hobby. Even though people say at my field that I'm above average after 3 years of flying, I still won't fly a Warbird or Gee Bee until I get my Second and Third Plane, and have flown it for a couple of years without wrecking it.


So I'm with Rebsix 100% on this one, I just have a different way of explaining it.


Peter Dowling aka Luftwaffe Oberst
AMA District II # 865404
Aero Modelers Club
Pulaski, NY

Fastinated, experience is not something you get in a matter of hours. That's called "Stick Time".

Sounds like you have a lot of Stick Time.

A few years from now, you'll have some "Experience"

An analogy I often use is the driver who says "I've been driving for over 30 years and never had an accident" - Yea, so? Has he ever been in an accident situation and managed to avoid it, or has he just never been in an accident situation? Has he ever done some bone-headed thing that caused someone ELSE to have an accident?

It sounds to me like you are ready for an advanced trainer, like a Stik, to practice some of your new tricks on, but anyone going from a trainer to a Sukhoi is just asking for a crash on maiden.

I dont know guys. I am sort of in the middle on this one as I selftaught myself 5 years ago without crashing my first trainer, and after I was very comfy with my trainer, built a kit built .40 size ultimate and maiden that with no problem. I was crapping my pants as it was a lot more touchy and a lot quicker, but no crash, just some new underwear.

I know this wasn't a good route, not ideal, but it can be done. I dinged up that poor ultimate a few months later and rebuilt it a few times, learning many many new things, however, she is still in one piece, but I have stolen the gear out of it for something else.

I am not so sure about the trainer story falling apart though as I have abused mine beyond anything. walls, torque rolls, blenders, etc., nothing has gone wrong. I dont know if the TH Trainer has a two piece wing like my Hobbico Superstar, but it sounds to me they just pulled apart, rather than folded. I just epoxied my wings together, and went and had a ball.

I do agree with the advice to move up slowly. A super sportster would probably have been a better choice for me at the time, but hey, i was young. :P I don't know why everyone thinks trainers are boring. Once you are very comfortable with it, you can fly it anytime, any weather. Try to make it go backwards in high winds, it is just so easy, you don't mind flying it and there won't be much if any pucker factor at all.

Keep the trainer, get a stable second low wing airplane, and then get yourself a nice aerobat.

I soloed my last two students after their 4th lesson at the field. They both used the G2 Flight Sim before hand for about a month. One is my friend Piddler. He then went on to a Midwest Cjerokee 40, then the Hangar 9 Miss America P-51D Mustang. He is a Great R/C pilot and does very well. However, the "Key Factor" is not to ask more than the Aircraft can give and not over exceed your own limitations. I always tell folks to practice new maneuvers on the sim first, then proceed to the field, once the sim goes well every time. I have flown R/C for 15 years now and I use my G2 sim on a regular basis. I fly on line with others to simulate being at the field. I too fly full scale aircraft, but the two worlds are very different and yet very similar. I have found the most difficult R/C students are those who all ready have a pilots license. The easiest to teach are teens as they are so "Video Game" oriented with very fast reflexes. I advise when flying any type aircraft to keep the performed maneuvers to within the ability of the aircraft and don't exceed your own ability. This should keep anyone from taking home a bag of parts from the field.

After reading through this thread, reading the original post by Fascinated, then the replies, and the follow-up by Fascinated, I can see that there is no way that anyone is going to get through the wall in this situation.

I started out with a Tower 40 trainer then switched over to a NexSTAR. I won't go into my reasons, because they don't apply here. Needless to say, I thought I was getting a better plane.. and in some respects, it was. I flew with an instructor for about three or four months, actually three different instructors.. while one was not present, one other was there to help out. I also had the G2 (at the time it was the state of the art in sims). I flew on the G2 with the NexSTAR and did ok. All it really tought me to do was land. Other stuff was playing around and understanding that going full throttle and pulling on the elevator caused the plane to loop, or push the aileron over and it would roll.

After the four months or so of instructor aided training, I decided I wanted to try to solo. So, the instructor pulled the plug and up I went, and did just fine. And as someone already said, I went home and changed my underwear, but did so proudly.

I flew that NexSTAR for several weeks now really beginning to learn because I was on my own and did not want to destroy my airplane. I really wanted something better, but stuck with the NexSTAR for a while. I finally decided, after many discussions with various people at the field, that I would get a Tiger 60. This was a great choice because it was aerobatic, but gentle. My maiden flight and the two or three after maiden were all done with the aid of my instructor on the buddy box, there to help me should I mess up. All was fine, and, by the way, I still have the Tiger 60. I sold the NexSTAR to an older gent that destroyed his and needed another trainer. He still has my old NexSTAR, by the way, after I gave it all the abuse that I could muster up, and HE gave it all the abuse HE could muster up.. it is still in one piece AND still flys.

I now have several other models (see below) and all fly just great. I just bought and built, and maiden'ed a Tiger 120, all with my good old instructor present, but in the case of the below, with the exception of the Tiger 60, I maidened myself.

I have buried three models in the mean time, a Goldberg Skylark 56, a Venus 40, and my Brio 10 electric. All of them because I did something that my instructor suggested that I do not do.

Take the word of the people posting here.. listen to what they say and swollow your pride. You won't be the first RC pilot that has done what the instructor said to do and survived, or did not do and did not survive (the plane that is).

I've qualified several new pilots this past year. Each of them are still using trainer aircraft and still learning, but having fun doing so. Imagine that.

DS.

I started out back with stick and tissue free flight, control line, then built and flew two channel gliders. Kind of self taught - I had a friend who flew better and talked me through some things and trimmed my glider initially. Then I thought I'd go to a powered R/C model. Built a Sig Kadet and strapped a .25 engine on her (the minimum recommended). Either because the instructions said, or from free-flight "experience" I hand launched her to check the trim. Mistake #1. After that minor rebuild I tried to fly her. Hardly moved in the grass. Hand launch under power. Mistake #2. After that major rebuild I tried several more attempts and did succeed in getting some air under her. Then a sharp turn turned into a knife edge landing. Sold the pieces.

20 years later I had a friend who bought a used R/C trainer from his brother-in-law suggest we join a club that offered instructions and instructors and learn together after I said I'd like to try again. Much better idea.

Sure you can teach yourself. But your chances are much better with help.

And there are a lot of surprises in the real world that simulators don't teach. Gusts, disorientation, thermals and footers (the bottom drops out), sun in your eyes, loose connector, wheel falls off, wasp up your pantleg, etc.. Some things can only be learned through educating and conditioning your muscles. Thumbs and brain. Beginners tend to overcorrect and overreact. You eventually fly ahead of your models, instead of reacting with and to them.

Dude, tell the wasp up your pantleg story!!!!

Also, why are full scale pilots hard to teach? (I am a full scale pilot myself, but learned full scale after RC). Is it cause of the ego thing? :P As my CFI told me way back when. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots.

Now it's my turn to get abused. I have been flying for 3 years. I am TOTALLY self taught. My first plane (if you can call it that) was a SPAD BUHOR. I couldn't fly it worth a crap. I had a very very short lifespan. I had a much more experienced pilot test fly it and he was surprised that it flew as well as it did. Still, I couldn't control it.

Then I went on to a very slow flying electric, which you can see in My Models. I flew the bejezus out of it. I flew at night in illuminated parking lots because I was so horny to fly. At the same time, I INVESTED in Aero Fly Pro, yes Pro. This little program has saved me THOUSANDS. After I had figured that thing out I bought a GWS Estarter, then a Formosa, then a brushless for the Formosa, etc etc. Heck, my first balsa nitro burner was a TH Uproar 40. I flew the crap out of that thing. Now I have Carl Goldberg Extra 300 with a .90 in it.

Here's the point. I'm an instructor now, after three years. I didn't volunteer for the position. I fell into it. People gravitate to me and I don't know why. I'm 26. Figure that out. Don't discount the capabilities of simulators, don't discount the value of stick time. Yes, there is a vast difference between time and experience. But with time, comes experience. It's a symbiotic relationship, and you can't have one without the other.

Fastinated, I've been where you are. Stay excited, and hungry to fly, and try to learn as much as you can and you will broaden your horizons.

Congrats to you on what you have done.

Actually, it wasn't me but a guy I was with. Basically he tossed me his transmitter when I ran up to see why he was yelling and he proceeded to scream and strip off his pants. Try landing an unfamiliar plane when you're laughing so hard your eyes are tearing up and trying to keep your eyes on a model and not the Chinese Acrobats. Came out OK, wasp dead & plane survived. Glad it was a SuperStar trainer and not a helicopter.

I know the full-scale answer. In college I was in Avaition Club and got briefly into full scale. In an aircraft you're always looking out the windscreen and never at yourself from the ground as you fly. No sensation of banking or movement (which can be misleading, anyway). No ground or horizon for orientation of attitude. And, the false notion that it is easier because it's kid stuff.

Thanks man, that was a good laugh! haha.

It makes sense on the full scale stuff. I guess I am glad I learn the other way around. As an instrument pilot I am sure I'd be looking down for my Attitude indicator, manifold pressure, NAV1/2, and GPS. :P Also, the natural ego that comes with being a pilot, I am sure has a lot to do with it is kids stuff, so it must be easy. Personally I find model flying more fun as it is more a thrill and it isnt so regulated. Just me though.

My intention wasn't to make you mad, (although I expected a reply similar to the one you typed), it was to let anyone starting in this hobby that read your post know what not to do. I don't feel I'm better or that my way is the way everyone should do it. I also understand context in these posts is determined by the tone of voice you use in your own mind while your reading someone else's reply.

I heard your story so I feel I have to tell you mine.

I started flying RC in 1985 on Camp Pendleton. Another Marine (Jim) and I decided to go to the hobby shop and see what we could get that could be kept in a wall locker. Jim had limited experience and I had none. With the recommendations of the store owner, I walked out with a CG Gentle Lady kit and Jim grabbed a (Dynaflight??) Wanderer kit (both sailplanes).

We taught ourselves how to build, and then how to fly off a hill by San Onofre Beach. After literally hundreds of flights I bought a DF Mini Bird of Time kit, another sailplane, that made several hundred, if not a thousand more flights. I got out in 1988 and gave it up when I came home.

Fast forward to 2003. In a friends garage, I found a Royal 40 Trainer with an Airtronics VG4 transmitter setup installed. I fixed it up and re-covered the plane. I got a few flights on it that fall in between engine failures. I showed up at the local club field the next spring and they went over my airplane and told me my engine was junk (TT.40), and that my hinge gaps were too big. I started to get a tad offended until the Club President gave me an OS 46FX new in the box. I put that in and he met me at the field on a Sunday. After breaking in the engine, he took me up with the club trainer a few times because there were no Airtronics buddy boxes. I was old enough (late 30's) to realize I needed to listen to this guy and he didn't need, or care, to hear about all the experience I thought I had because I wasn't going to impress him anyway.

Two days later on training night, a different instructor took me and my airplane aside. After a preflight and a range check (you'd figure with all my "experience" I would have know to do these things), he took it up and trimmed it out and handed me the transmitter. Two flights later, everyone went back and sat down while my instructor told me to do three takeoff's and three full stop landings. After my three flights, nice ones too I might add, I was officially an RC pilot. 13 weeks and 8 gallons of fuel later I ordered my Funtana 40. Club members kept letting me fly different airplanes, Funtana's, UCD's, GP 40 Corsair, Sukhoi, etc. I decided on the Funtana and I used the same 46FX I had in my trainer.

The next Summer I missed flying my trainer so I bought an OS FL70 for the Funtana. That Fall I got a Saito 82 for it and started working on some 3D (notice the progression?) I sit here now looking at the same Funtana that after it's 3rd season, other than normal hanger and field rash, has never had the firewall, gear, or even a stick of balsa broken in it, and it is all due to me knowing when to shut up and listen from the start, and I still do that. My experience has increased 100 fold simply by asking questions and doing what I was told. BTW, I'm also a full scale pilot licensed since May 1989.

Since that first summer I have been an Intro Pilot for 2 years with several soloed students, News Letter Editor, Webmaster, Vice President, and for 2007 the President of the Club. So I guess in this post I'm saying your right, it can be done, but from what I could understand from your first post you were telling all newbies that they simply needed to run out and buy G3 and they had all they needed, then you went on to explain how you crashed 3 airplanes. If you re-read the first line of my above post you'll realize I wasn't giving you advice, since your beyond that point, I was using you as an example of what not to do if your new to the hobby and sport, blame it on the instructor in me.

Jeff

Don't forget the wasp that got stuck in your shirt collar - ouuuccchhhh!

This post is a rough copy of several similar posts in this forum. Sadly, the advice of more experienced flyers and a stern reality check are often interpreted as being mean. Are you really that soft?

These planes are dangerous if handled improperly, and the first step to improper handling is ego. I have been soloed for only 13 months. Since then I have flown DOZENS of gallons of glow fuel through my planes. I spend time with experienced IMAC competitors and 3D guys. I listened and I continue to learn every day...and yes, I do fly every day.

I recently got into gas powered scale aerobats. If my ego allowed me to get over my head with a 30 pound plane swinging a nearly 30 inch prop, I could kill someone. Please listen to these guys....anyone can roll a trainer, attempt hovers, even KE. Stick movements are the easiest part of this activity, there's a lot more to it.

Hard landings and crashes...even on deadstick are a sign of inexperience. Yes they happen to everyone, but a good flyer will know how to deal with excess airspeed, too little airspeed wind problems etc...

I am sorry you feel you have to defend your VERY limited experience in the face of honest advice from well-meaning people like myself and others in this thread. I just can't let another one of these go by without comment.

If you continue with your current attitude please use a folded trash bag to pad your receiver, it saves time while the rest of us are waiting for you to clear the field. People here are generally not trying to put you down in any way, we have a true love for this hobby and like to help new people out whenever possible.

The advice you don't want to hear is likely the advice you should take.

Good luck; and welcome to the best hobby on the planet!!

Q. How can you tell if there is a pilot (full scale/100%'ers) in the room?
A. Wait 30 seconds; he will tell you.

Haha, thats a good one. I don't usually mention it though, but it is why I was curious to that question.


Back to the thread...

Essentially the thing with sims is use it as a tool, it won't teach you everything but it does help. I learned the concepts of rolling circles with a sim, and then used these concepts to learn the maneuver in real life. It is a great tool, but it doesn't replace experience. None of us are trying to be mean about this, we are just trying to help. I wish I would have found this forum a lot earlier in my flying career, it would have saved me a lot of heartache.

I built a Wanderer in the 70's. Mine was by Mark's Models. Fun little plane with a .049 on the nose to get to altitude.

Bruce & Rebsix: Sorry for the diversion from the content of this thread, but I just wanted to get this in.

We have a SAM (Society of Antique Modelers) chapter in our club. Those guys fly some amazing equipment. Some of it very old, not just old designs, but old old.. I enjoy watching these things fly. Very light and fragile, but they hold up. Occasionally, one will launch, go way up there, then.. well, they never recover some of them, they wander off so far and so high.

DS.