Hi all

Two questions, but first a short intro

I'm just on the verge of getting into RC airplanes. I've always been into planes (dad flew a 172 for awhile, and some of his buds had the usual Champs, 152's, etc.). I flew a buddy box at a local club's open house a few years back, and it was really what got me hooked.

I've read a lot of stuff here about picking equipment. I was given a plane/radio/engine as a gift, here's what I've got so far:

-Great Planes PT-40 Trainer, unassembled, not ARF (with needed construction tools)
-O.S. 40 engine
-Futuba 4-channel radio w/servos (it's unused, but is a few years old)

I've just barely begun construction (I built a Guillow's rubber band powered plane to get the hang of working with balsa). It looks like I've got a good trainer set up.

Anyhow, my questions:

1. Clubs

I am fortunate enough to have 2-3 clubs within a reasonable driving distance. What kinds of things should I look for in a "good" club? Here in Michigan things are still a bit cold and snowy to go flying today. Besides the basics like "do I like these people as friends?" "can I trust these people?" and "is the field clear of obstructions?".... what kind of things should I look for in a club?

2. Instructors

Once I've picked a club, how do I pick an instructor? Both of the larger clubs near me have multiple instructors (so their websites say), what do I look for in an instructor? I've read a few horror-stories of instructors crashing the student's plane, and I'd like to minimize the chance of this happening by picking a good instructor

EDIT: in previous paragraph for clarity (my apologies)

Thanks for your help! I'm looking foward to getting into the hobby

Go to each of the clubs and talk to the people there,ask them the same questions,usually they will tell you the good and bad about the club and the instructors,good luck.

There are a couple things to look for and do to reduce the risk of a crash while training.

Some clubs may have "club trainers". These are donated planes used for intros and training, and are maintained by the instructors. I am a keeper of one such plane for my club. i prefer to teach using my own plane rather than risk a students plane. First few flights on a plane are about 10 times more likly to end in a crash than a seasoned plane, especially when it was built by a beginner. Add in the chalanges of unfamiliar equipment, and the things first time pilots do to try to kill a plane... makes it pretty tough for an instructor. Go easy on him.

Secondly spend some time on a computer simulator. Not quite the same thing as real RC, but pretty close. it usually takes 4 - 8 months to solo depending on how fast your hand/eye coordination developes (it is far more dificult than most people imagine) the simulator will save you a couple planes and reduce the learning cycle a lot. Some of them are expensive - just under 200$, but the value in saved planes and the enjoyment of getting out of those awkward first stages quiclkly, makes them well worth it.

On picking the club, I would base it a lot on the flying site. Are there trees? Which way is the runway oriented compared to the sun and prevailing winds? What is the land beyond the runway? Is it swamp or fields, and if fields, how high are the weeds? Is the grass mowed regularly? How about the porta-potti? Other amenities? Do you share the field with the helicopters? How big an airplane can you fly? How far is the pits from the runway (more is better, a lot better)?

I have several clubs myself to choose from, and one is just a much nicer flying area than the others. (This is assuming you don't mind the drive. In my case, since one is much closer, that's where I fly a lot.) The next piece would be how crowded the flying site is. If you are more interested in flying than socializing, go for less crowds, since it's better to fly with fewer airplanes in the sky. (Of course if socializing is your thing, choose accordingly.)

If you can visit regularly, you may be able to get a sense of how strictly the field is run. Neither way is necessarily better, but you'll want to find one that fits your own style.

On the instructor, they are usually volunteers, so I'm not sure you'll have much choice. I don't think there are many bad ones out there, so it's mostly going to be a matter of convenience. Who is available when you are?

RC-Lew
Welcome, And Your post is well stated.
Clubs; Training nights away from other activities, is a plus. Helps the one on one instruction, and reduces other interference's

As far as instructors, one that will listen to Your questions and give answers in response to the ones asked.

Happy Flyin' Dan Z (And the other suggestions)

RC-Lew,

Hello and welcome to RC Universe.

Where are you in Michigan?

I belong to Pontiac Miniature Aircraft Club (PMAC) in Whitelake, Mi.

It's a good club, I started flying in the spring of 2000. I went to trainer night (every Thursday 6-9pm). They do a good job of training new flyers. Every instructor will be a little different so you have to deal with that.

I am also going to train my 7 year old this year. He is interested in flying and flys the sim at home.

Check out the clubs, call or email the members. Go to meetings etc.

What I did was hang around the club and watched, talked to members and then signed up.

This is a great hobby with a lot of great people willing to help you out.

Let me know if I can do anything.
(PM or email me if you want)

Bill

The PT-40 has two options for wing dihedral or angle. One has about 2 1/2 inches of angle total and the other has almost 8 inches. Make sure you build the low dihedral (2 1/2 inches) option. The manual suggests that beginners build the 8 inch wing - DON'T DO IT! The 8 inch wing is only for 3 channel (rudder control not ailerons) flying and will fly like crud if you try to fly it with ailerons. I'm so passionate about this because I spent a lot of time last summer butchering a students wing to change the angle so the plane would fly right.

Ditto on the wing dihedral!!!

On the club issue, I hold firmly to meeting the guys and seeing how their club is set up, rules, dues, etc. I once had a choice between two clubs and I picked one on a friends recommendation. After about 6 months, I met a few guys from the other club, and switched over in a heartbeat. The first club had more stupid rules then you could shake a stick at (oops, I forgot, it's against the rules to shake sticks!) And their dues were 3 times what the other club was. So INHO the best advice is to shop around and see for yourself which one suits YOU best.

All good points.

Being winter in Michigan, you only have meetings and some die hard flyers to base your decision on. I know I did'nt join my club until May because of that reason. I waited until I could see trainer night in action. This gave me the chance to meet a bunch of people at the field.
I am still not sure where you are located but we have an Ice Fly this Sunday on Sylvan Lake. If you are local let me know.

Bill

Hey MinnFlyer, I see it's real cold up in Minn.

Hi all

Thank you for all the good advice- especially the part about the PT-40 wing, that would have been a bummer of a mistake.

RedWing, I'm in the Kalamazoo area, but if you guys have a big yearly meet it's not too bad of a drive to get over there

Again, thanks to everyone who has replied (or who might reply!) for taking the time to offer your experience.

[EDIT]: Just wanted to add that I'm taking a look at simulators, at first I was a bit skeptical about how well they actually "simulate" the experience, but enough people here have sworn by them to warrant a look

RC-Lew,

You are on the right track. The sim helps a lot in orentation. When you start flying for real, it will help you be more automatic with your stick control. Sims do a good job, but...
It is so much more fun and exciting at the field. The smell, sounds and sites of others flying.
Get busy building and asking questions on RC Universe.

Bill

When it comes to instructors, you have to be careful. Some instructors will promice you the world and they wont deliver. Your instructor is volunteering his time. Your instructor should be skilled enough that you wont have to worry about your plane coming home in pieces. If there is a mishap your instructor should help you fix it. Enjoy your time spent with your instructor. An instructor does not have to be the best flyer at the field,
an instructor must be dedicated.

Hey Lew I live about an hour from you, just across the indiana border. I've been flyin for 20 yrs, hovering for the last 5. If you have an ama card you can come fly as a guest at our club or do like I do and keep a plane in your car at all times, never know when you need to pull over and toss one in the air. I'll be glad to give you any help I can.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

it usually takes 4 - 8 months to solo depending on how fast your hand/eye coordination developes (it is far more dificult than most people imagine)

Does it really take that long to solo? I've read in hear people soloing in their first week. 4-8 Months is longer than a full season in Michigan.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by POJack

Quote:

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

it usually takes 4 - 8 months to solo depending on how fast your hand/eye coordination developes (it is far more dificult than most people imagine)

Does it really take that long to solo? I've read in hear people soloing in their first week. 4-8 Months is longer than a full season in Michigan.

I've been teaching for some 30 years now and trained to graduation on the order of 400 people. Most have learned within 3 days, many within 5 hours or two days. 2 years ago, a friend of mine and my wife spent 7 hours giving around 100 cub scouts 5 minutes each on the sticks of several trainers we used. I use a teaching method (no buddy-box) which for me is much easier, faster and safer.

We just started a hobby shop where we offer everyone a free fly before you buy RC flying experience on our trainers, that includes RC helicopters. I am not surprised just how incredibly easy it is to get people into RC aeromodeling this way.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

The length of time it takes to solo is proportional to how much time you spend in the air. I also am an instructor at our field. There's some that have been trying to solo for years, but they are only getting out to fly 1 or 2 times a month and only spending a half hour in the air when they are at the field. You can solo in a week if you get out there 3 or 4 days and spend a good amount of time in the air when you are there. Just like full scale, it takes a certain amount of time to get the hang of it. It all depends on how hard you and your instructor work at it.

The only people I have ever had take 4 to 8 months to solo only flew once every 4 to 8 months. If you go to the field and have a good trainer like the one you talked about in the first post, you can get the hang of flying, keeping level and controling it in about 3 flights. Then on to the more advanced stuff for a few flights and then on to take offs and landings. I usually have people soloing in about 3 to 4 days at the field, flying 2 to 3 flights a day. Some faster, some slower, but never 8 months. The more you fly, the better you get. Also remember, if your plane gets crashed by an instructor, the chances are very high that it couldn't be avoided. If he crashes it doing stupid things, that is different. If you get ahead of him and do something he can't fix, don't hold it against him. He is trying to help and a good instructor won't crash, but sometimes crash happens. Fix it and move on.

I went through the club training program last summer and here are my thoughts:

1) You may encounter many instructors, I had about five, this is a good thing. I learned different stuff from each of them.

2) Try and tell the instructor what you want. I wanted structure and goals, many instructors just say "go fly".

3) Go to the field and watch! Go to training night and observe the instructors, then ask for one. But remember, you may not be able to monopolize the "best" instructor all the time.

As for soloing, I had about 30 hours on a park flyer and a lot of G2 time.

When I went to my LT-40 I spent:

3 sessions - 7 flights - on the buddy box (took off on flight 6)
2 sessions - six flights - with an instructor beside me (first landing on flight 10)
Soloed (instructor went back and sat down under the shed) on the 14th flight.

Oh, had a minor crash on the 25th flight, lost confidence, and got the instructor to trim fly the airplane and stand by me for one landing.

Have at it.

I just wanted to comment on the bolded portion of RC-Lew's post.
As someone who has only trained a few people over the years, this statement seems offensive. remember the majority of guys instructing do this for FREE and give up valuable time teaching a stranger how to fly!!!! Crashes do happen even to the best of pilots. If your attitude is one in which you would blame someone for helping you then I would respectfully make two suggestions

1. Find a professional flying school. Lesson are NOT FREE but you will use there equipment. Expect to spend a week at the school with a expenses anywhere from 500.00-1500.00 (lodging,airfare,meals,tution etc..)

2. Find a different hobby. That attitude is counter productive and frankly will make you unpopular at the club not to mention ruining other peoples day..

I don't say this to start a flame war!!!! Only to point out that club instructors are human and accidents (crashes) can and will happen if you are not able to accept this aspect of the hobby FIND another!!!!

Again, thank you for the continued advice.

Crashem:

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea, that sentence shouldn't be interpreted as "I'm a maniac who will attack anyone who looks at me and blinks" Rather, it was to try to explain that it is important to me to find a competent instructor when there are so many to choose from. It shouldn't be taken as anything more than "how do I pick a good instructor?" My apologies to anyone if that was unclear.

-Lew

RC_LEW,
If you'd make the trip to my area, I would be happy to give you, for free, a few hours of instruction, with my trainers of which you wouldn't be responsible for any damage, should any occur. You can stay in a room in our new hobby shop. It shouldn't take you anymore than 3 days to learn how to takeoff, fly very smoothly and land within that time. No strings, just wanted you to know that there are alternatives.

All it would cost you is travel expenses. All I would expect in return is for you to describe on RCU what happened, good or bad.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

I agree with Crashem.

We had one guy come to our club with an attitude 2 years ago. He joined the club and to this day cannot fly. Having a good attitude will get you places. A good instructor will be there for you even after your on your own. I have rebuilt several planes for people that have had the misfortune of thundering into mother earth.

RC-Lew,
I just soloed in October. A very important thing I think you need in an instructor is find one who believes in using a buddy box. I can't count the number of times this saved my plane, especially when we started flying closer to the ground to learn landings.
I feel so strongly about this that when I take my second plane up for the first time I intend to do it on the buddy box. If it starts doing something wiggy I want someone who is experienced there to save my plane. Plus, I'm going from a trike to a tail dragger.
Good Luck and Enjoy,
KW_Counter

Hi Counter

When you go to your tail dragger remember to hold it off on landing. Gradually get that elevator stick all the way back and dont let those mainwheels touchdown until you cant get that stick back any further.

Congrats on your solo