Hi. I started my first build Thursday ( a Venture 60 [link=http://www.btemodels.com/venture.html]see it here[/link] . The CA is kicking my butt. It's burning my eyes. My fingers were sticking to the wood or to other fingers. I purchased some latex type surgical gloves and they help a lot, but I go through them fairly quickly because holes are torn once the CA glues them to the wood.

Also, I placed wax paper over the top of my plans. I read that the paper would help prevent the CA from sticking to the plans, but I tried to lift the wing and it was glued to the wax paper. It saved my plans, but now I'm scraping and pulling wax paper off the wing.

Any tips on how to handle this stuff?

Don't use so much. Open a window, and get a good fan. If you can build a bit slower, avoid CA.

Foosball,
The things you mentioned is why I completely gave up using CA. But there are a few things you can do to help. Instead of using wax paper go down to Lowe's/Home Depot/Wal-mart and go to the painting section, pickup the clear vinyl sheeting they sell to use a drop clothes. Use this sheeting to cover your plans with. The CA will NOT stick to the sheeting at all.

As far as getting it on your hands, that just takes some practice in how you apply it. But it's one of those things that are just going to happen.

Like I said, I've given it up and use Elmer's Carpenter's glue to build with now. But I hope these tips help you.

Ken

For building I personally like to use 30 minute epoxy or some generic wood glue. Things such as the wings, stabilizer or anything wood on the plane using CA can get messy at times. I know it's the fastest but not always the best method. Although I do like to use CA for stuff like ailerons, rudder, and elevator but instead of using the thin CA I use thick CA. I never use thin CA except to glue the wheels on my rc cars. Because other than that it dries entirely too fast. It almost literally does bond instantly. Often times you glue something in the wrong or slightly off position and have to break it to redo it (Talk about frustrating). With epoxy or wood glue you have time to position things the way you want before it dries. I'd say if you want a flawless build use epoxy or wood glue or any slow build bonds for the big stuff. Use thick CA for the small stuff. The total build time will be increased but it's easier and will turn out better.

I have found that since I've started using wood glue my building has gotten better. A huge part of that is the time you have to adjust a part before the glue sets. With CA this isn't possible. You only get one shot at getting it right. I have found that when you are building with wood glue you can build almost as fast as you can with CA if you plan out your building steps. A huge part of that is plan to work on something else while the glue sets. Even it it's just finding the parts for your next step it's a time saver over sitting idle while the glue dries. If you plan ahead you can turn out a plane almost as fast with wood glue as you can with CA. Of course, this applies to building the plane from a kit or plans. ARF's don't really count because you're not building as much as assembling the plane. And most of those bigger assemblies on an ARF will be attached with epoxy anyway!!

Ken

Right I agree 100% with that. You can always find something else to do while the glue is drying. You only get one shot (especially when building a kit). I think we're tempted to use CA out of impatience but I have learned if I want flawless, I need to do it the right way.

Good luck and happy building

Use more yellow wood glue, it is way easier to use, sand and clean up. The only disadvantage is it takes much more time to cure, so you have to pin things together, but that also allows more working time.

I now use CA only when I need an instant cure, or for very specific applications where yellow glue is not a fit.

Yellow glue is also very inexpensive.

It took me a few times to piece this together, but I finally realized that every time I build a model with CA, I get what feels like bronchitis, a cough, and a head cold. During the winter, I just figured I was getting sick, but this weekend I was working on a Guillows P-51 and the same thing happened again. I am getting a respirator before I work on it anymore.

PS - I know that these Guillows kits only cost $8 , but this one had the furriest, crumbliest balsa I have ever seen. One sheet was so dark that you could barely see the outlines and when you touched it with a knife, it just crushed. For a few minutes, I actually considered tossing the whole mess into the trash, but I pressed on, and came out with a respectable looking fuselage. I'm going to wait until I get a respirator before I start the wings. I am afraid to use a fan, because I'll blow the parts all over the place.

What a bunch of wussies. Do it right the first time!

MikeL said it best, DON'T USE SO MUCH!

A Little dab'll do ya!

Tite Bond II - no foul fumes.

Like some of the other guys, I don't use CA on any parts that will touch the plan covering, no matter what material it is. I've gone to carpenter's glue and no more problems. It takes longer to build a model, but the carpenter's glue doesn't stick to the covering and it's very easy to sand. CA is just not worth it!!

A lot of mechanics will use what is called a "barrier cream" to keep grease/oil from getting into the pores of their skin.
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~oem148/Parkin...rie%202001.hti
I'm sure a suitable product would help against CA too.

Still best IMO to use wood glue and only CA as needed.

As for a plan protector, I use the clear celophane type product sold at the arts & craft store in the wrapping paper section. This stuff comes in many transparent colors for making gift baskets, I use the clea stuff. NOTHING sticks to it. And it is perfectly clear so you can see the plans clearly thru it without any distortion or loss of detail.

I have been building my Hog bipe with yellow wood glue, and as an added bonus, I have found it does not make the wood so hard like CA does. The CA would turn the wood so hard that you could not sand the joints without sanding away almost all the surrounding wood. With the yellow wood glue, you just hit it a bit with the sandpaper, and the whole thing looks nice and smooth.

I'm glad I read this thread...I'm getting ready to do some repairs on my NexStar and I bought a 1 oz container of CA. I thought that was the way to go. I have some Elmers wood glue though and I may just use it instead. Is the bond as good and strong with wood glue as it is with CA?

How about the strength difference in CA, wood glue and epoxy? Which would provide the strongest bond?

I think it's better. As with any joint, keep them tightly fitted.

CA is good during repairs where you have an area that you can't work the wood glue into.

Also remember how hard it is to sand CA and CA soaked wood. Wood glue sands nicely.

for once we agree.

if you're getting enough fumes it's burning your eyes when building you're using way to much and that is the most likely reason for all the reports of 'difficult sanding' I've never had a problem sanding CA glued joints. I've covered a great many planes for people learning to build and the globs i notice all to often are from the use of kicker on excessive glued joints where the glue runs when kicked and hardens as a drip or where it accumulates where it touches the plan protection on wings. as for the plan protection, i like the waxed paper simply to keep the plan clean, you shouldn't be applying enough glue that it runs off what you're gluing onto the plans.....

on the v/s in strength IMO the CA is Much stronger and it builds lighter then wood glues.

kc

From an Article in Model Airplane news on glue for those who use Elmer's glue:

Polyvinyl acetate (PVA), aliphatic resin, polyurethane, cyanoacrylate (CA) and epoxy are among the most popular, but there are, of course, many other types of structural adhesives available.

PVA and aliphatic resin have been around the longest. PVA (white glue) has been in use since the late ’40s; Elmer’s is the most common brand. Although it will bond any moisture-free, oil-free, porous materials, it has characteristics that make it less than ideal for RC modeling. PVA stays relatively soft and plastic, so structural joints secured with it will move over time. Its lack of moisture resistance makes it unsuitable for exposure to water. White glue is, however, a good adhesive for gluing small foam models together—if they won’t be exposed to moisture.

Aliphatic resin (Titebond) was introduced in the early 1960s; Titebond-II is a more recent development. Aliphatic resin is good for almost anything we want to glue on a model. It’s very water-resistant and sandable, and it has good gap-filling strength, fatigue- and shock-resistance.

It can be used to join small pieces of wood with little or no clamping pressure. Glue joints can be handled after 15 minutes, but they must be left overnight for the bond to reach full strength. After a reasonable shelf life of about two years (usually), it starts to thicken when it reaches the end of its useful life. Aliphatic resin has a relatively short working time—about 15 minutes—during which you can shift the parts into position. It can be thinned slightly and cleaned up with water, and it’s the least expensive glue. Its only negative is that it dries from the evaporation of its water base and tends to shrink slightly (just as PVA does).


CA glues are reactive monomers and are available in various viscosities: thick, medium and thin. They are compounds that form chemical links (that is, they polymerize) when spread or pressed into a thin film. The very small amount of moisture that’s present on most construction surfaces acts as a catalyst for the adhesive to cure. When properly applied, CA forms a bond that is several times stronger than the materials that it joins. Too much moisture, however, will degrade the strength of the bond. The speed at which the bond is formed is the greatest advantage CA offers; you can build a model in hours instead of days and instantly repair damage at the field. When used with an accelerator (kicker,) thick CA can quickly fill in gaps caused by damaged or missing pieces. CA glues are also fuelproof.

CA USES
CA is great for general balsa and plywood parts construction. Because of its gap-filling properties, thick CA should be used on parts that don’t fit together perfectly and when you join two different materials such as balsa and carbon fiber. Thin CA should be used on parts that fit tightly together but not to glue balsa sheeting together. The joint it forms is much harder than the surrounding balsa, and this makes it very difficult to sand

The idea is NOT to use Elmer's white glue but rather their yellow WOOD glue
http://www.elmers.com/homerepair/pro...asp?pCode=E740
which IS waterproof.

Compare apples to apples. Elmer's yellow wood glue is just as good as the Tite Bond II that I use. White Elmer's? Every school kid knows that's only for EATING and not building stuff.

i use thin to glue all my sheeting together, i always trim my sheeting for a perfect fit, then glue it up with thin CA on a sheet of glass, and apply kicker as i go, then use a T-bar sander and 120 grit to sand the entire sheet at 45Âş to the grain direction, flip and repeat. takes about 2 min to do a large wing skin and you absolutely can not see the seams even when bent over the wing ribs.

kc