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Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Old 06-13-2007, 11:21 AM
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Showtime100
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Default Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Is this aircraft appropriate for a beginner? Has anyone here flown one? I am currently flying the electric "Super Cub" but I want to get more serious and join a club and work with an instructor. I'd like a realistic looking model and I'd prefer a RTF package. The P-51 is appealing because of the Simulator software, trainer link, and the opportunity to remove the training features as I mature as a rc pilot. Any suggestions?
Old 06-13-2007, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

It's a good flyer especially once you remove the training stuff.

With all of the training stuff on ( including the brakes ) it flies as slowly as a normal trainer.

It is a bit more difficult than a high wing trainer, but your prior experience will take you over this quickly ( as will your use of an instructor ).

The plane needs a little work to get it ready for prime time.

Read the long PTS P-51 thread elsewhere...

You do not have to do everything listed in the thread, but you'll find a few key points worth doing.


The included Simulator software is worthless though.

Don't bother with it.

Old 06-13-2007, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

i have the raptor and it flies really well. it has all the pts features and a better remote
Old 06-13-2007, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Personally I don't think these planes fly as well as they could in a training situation. I've flown easier to fly planes as trainers. However, since you are already flying a bit, it may be OK for your situation. Taking off and landing are what you'll need to learn, as well as slow flight, coordinated turns, stalls and the like. In a training situation it's best to have a docile plane that reacts a bit on the slow side so you can react to it easier while learning. This plane is a compromise between a trainer and a sport plane, so unfortunately you don't get the best of either. How does your instructor feel? If they are comfortable with it, it might be fine.

Personally, I would go with a plane specifically designed as a trainer and nothing more. Learn on it untill it falls apart. Then go and buy a sport plane. lots of things people dislike about trainers are actually good skills to master. Is it a terrible mistake to go with the P51? Not really. Just not my first choice.
Old 06-13-2007, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS



The PTS with all of the training aids is just slightly faster than a high wing plane, but still exhibits the slow flight characterisitcs of a trainer.

It's certainly NOT the plane for someone to "go it alone" but with an instructor in the mix, progress is very good.

It's probably not the plane for someone with no simulator time, and who has inherent problems with orientation.


However if you have a bit of RC experience, have played with the sims, or are fairly good from a spacial standpoint, the PTS is a good plane to start with.


Heck I was flying mine solo the first day on the field with an instructor, after a bit of simulator time, and this with no prior RC experience.


Most students end up having to unlearn many of the tendencies they pick up with the high wingers as they transition to other planes.

The PTS permits you to skip this step.. ( my "second" plane was a 40S Ultimate Bi-Plane ).

As advertized the PTS becomes your first, and second plane, and after you move on to something else, it's a blast to fly as a sports plane.


It may not be the "perfect" first plane, but that doesn't mean it's not a good plane to start out with, with an eye towards the future.





Old 06-13-2007, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Well, not sure if all that helps with making up my mind but good info to take in. I have some Real flight simulator time and some electric rc time on the Super Cub. I'll keep practicing and perhaps the solution will soon present itself.
Old 06-13-2007, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

As our clubs designated flight instructor I have had the dubious
pleasure of some extensive flying of the P-51 PTS. My recommendation
is to forget it and get yourself a good trainer. Something like a
Sig LT40 or a Hobbico Hobbistar 60. Im training someone right
now on the Hobbistar 60 and its a very good flyer.

The PTS as supplied flies terrible. It has a 3 blade 9 X 3 prop
and you have to run full throttle just to keep it in the air.
It is so unresponsive that its difficult to fly.

The landing gear is very fragile. It folds up quite easily on
anything but a soft landing. Exactly what you DONT want
in a primary trainer.

Now if you take all the training aids off it and replace that prop
with an APC 11 X 5 and take that two ounce steel flywheel
off of it and rebalance the thing flies pretty well. But then
its not a trainer any more.

The best thing for you to do is find your instructor first.
Ask him what he recommends. You will have much greater
success if you are flying something your instructor doesnt hate.

Mike Hammer
Old 06-13-2007, 02:41 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS


ORIGINAL: XTOL


The PTS as supplied flies terrible. It has a 3 blade 9 X 3 prop
and you have to run full throttle just to keep it in the air.
It is so unresponsive that its difficult to fly.
The PTS is supplied with a 3 blade 10x5 prop.... not a 9x3.

It is set up this way to slow the plane down.

It does not slow the plane so much that you must run it at full throttle.

This is a mistake I've seen many instructors make, as they THINK that they plane is flying too slowly and will stall out.

I usually end up calming their fears by letting them try out my plane, and encouraging them to run it at 80% throttle.

They are quite amazed that it doesn't "fall out of the sky" this way.



Nor is it unresponsive.

The default control throws are at 75%. These must be taken up to 100% to get the plane to fly properly.


The gear is not any more fragile than any wired gear trainer. Some planes came with loose blocks, which is why a once-over is encouraged as per the long PTS thread, to avoid such problems.


The flywheel helps make the engine easy to tune for the newbie.
Once they have progressed to the point that they are taking off the training aids, it can be removed as well.
But the flywheel does not greatly and adversely impact the plane's flight characteristics. I flew mine for quite a while with the flywheel in place.


The plane does tend to yaw left at runup more than a usual trainer. This is one reason that an instructor is almost a must with this plane.




Old 06-13-2007, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS


ORIGINAL: XTOL


The best thing for you to do is find your instructor first.
Ask him what he recommends. You will have much greater
success if you are flying something your instructor doesnt hate.

Mike Hammer
I agree. I have also started on the Super Cub and did TERRIBLE trying to fly it myself! Get with a club trainer. I have had one lesson with a trainer and it has made a world of difference. I just bought the Sig LT-40 and I'm going to put it together this weekend with my son-in-law who has been flying since he was a kid. I'm really excited about it!

From what I have seen on some of these posts, I would go with the LT-40, the Tower Trainer 40, the Hobbico Avistar or the Thunder Tiger 60 trainer. Ehobbies.com had a special a while back on the Thunder Tiger, but they have gone up on it (was under $300 for plane, engine and transmitter...a GREAT deal). These 4 planes seem to be the most popular. I picked a lot of brains and posted a few messages here before I made my decision.

My son-in-law had the Hangar 9 Mustang and it was a pretty sweet plane, but unfortunately he crashed it into a small pond and totalled it! [sm=cry_smile.gif] He has crashed it twice into the same pond and said it quit responding both times. Not sure what went wrong, but I'm not sure I would go with it and especially not as a first plane. I would use more of a standard trainer (high wing) and then graduate to the Mustang, but that's my opinion.

Whatever you do, you REALLY need to get with your local plane club and get setup with an instructor with a buddy box that can take over instantly when you have problems. Makes a WORLD of diffence!

Good Luck!
Old 06-13-2007, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

The PTS is supplied with a 3 blade 10x5 prop.... not a 9x3.
I beg to differ. At least on the one my student had it was
MOST DEFINITELY a 3 blade 9 X 3. Perhaps the supplied blade
was changed at some point in time.

The flywheel helps make the engine easy to tune for the newbie.
Once they have progressed to the point that they are taking off the training aids, it can be removed as well.
But the flywheel does not greatly and adversely impact the plane's flight characteristics. I flew mine for quite a while with the flywheel in place.
That flywheel is two ounces of steel right on the nose of the
plane. To balance he had another 2 ounces of lead in the tail.
Removing the flywheel and the tail weight and putting a good
prop made a HUGE difference.

Im sure some people like this plane but a primary trainer it
is not. Its too fragile and too difficult to fly for a novice.

Mike Hammer
Old 06-13-2007, 05:08 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

I'm currently learning to fly with the p-51 mustang pts and am having a blast. My instructor is still helping me out as my landings are interesting. This has been the only area where I'm having trouble. Luckily all 3 of my crashes has been on landing so the slow speed hasn't destroyed my plane. The guys at the club say this is an easy plane to fly if you want to stick to tail-draggers. There are other planes (see above posts) to train on but the mustang bit me and I got into this hobby because of that plane. And I am Having a Blast!!
Old 06-13-2007, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS


ORIGINAL: XTOL

The PTS as supplied flies terrible. It has a 3 blade 9 X 3 prop
and you have to run full throttle just to keep it in the air.
It is so unresponsive that its difficult to fly.

The landing gear is very fragile. It folds up quite easily on
anything but a soft landing. Exactly what you DONT want
in a primary trainer.

Now if you take all the training aids off it and replace that prop
with an APC 11 X 5 and take that two ounce steel flywheel
off of it and rebalance the thing flies pretty well. But then
its not a trainer any more.

Mike Hammer
Well once again I have to disagree about this. My 9 yr old son learned on the PTS P-51 over a yr ago & is still going strong. We did put a 10x6 3 blade prop on it & took off the trainer stuff but this is one Great plane to learn on & after a while you can speed it up. Find a Good Instructor to help you & have a ball with it.

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Old 06-13-2007, 05:55 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Hi Xirtic88,

My first plane was Hangar 9's P51 Mustang PTS which was a great gift of my loving wife, Unfortunately that plane crashed as Rx failed. I was flying it without air brakes and flaps were neutral as I wanted to fly it fast. I would buy this plane again as this is really a good plane. I found twitching in the left aileron servo as connecter wire was little loose, it was a major glitch and did give me hard time during flying. As far as training on that plane is concerned, yes it's a good trainer, but without a senior instructor that plane will crash in NanoSeconds so please don't do that. Simulator is not that good ofcourse but for a newbie it gives a fair idea of gimbals, how to fly it land it and take off. Atleast something is better than nothing. FMS is also a good free simulator available on the net as the purpose is to learn and enter into the hobby as you have already been flying Cub so I think you'd probably learn very quick on that. Its a beautiful flying baby, once ofcourse you are expert in it, it is also a 2nd fast plane. Go for it and wish you all the best

Mody
Old 06-13-2007, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

If this plane appeals to you then get it and learn to fly with an instructor. I trained a young pilot with this plane and he he did just fine. I also found it a lot more fun to train on. One thing I really liked was that you had to fly the plane down not just cut the throttle and watch it float in like most high wing trainers. When this kid soloed he could land better than most of the seasoned pilots at the field. He didn't need to get a second plane when he was ready to ramp it up, all he did was take off all the doo dads and he had a sporty plane. This was all last year, this year he is flying a Funtana X and doing it quite well.
Old 06-13-2007, 07:24 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

ORIGINAL: XTOL

I beg to differ. At least on the one my student had it was
MOST DEFINITELY a 3 blade 9 X 3. Perhaps the supplied blade
was changed at some point in time.
No it's a 10x5. It's the same blade supplied with the Alpha 40. I have an Alpha as well. Both planes use exactly the same engine and prop.

You can check it out a Horizon Hobby web site.

If your student had a 9x3 someone changed it... and no wonder it seemed underpowered... though the supplied prop is purposely no screamer either...

The Alpha requires a good run to get it airborn with the PTS prop, as does the P-51, but both fair well once aloft.

I can imagine that the 9x3 must have been horrid as the plane would be way too underpowered with it.


ORIGINAL: XTOL

That flywheel is two ounces of steel right on the nose of the
plane. To balance he had another 2 ounces of lead in the tail.
Removing the flywheel and the tail weight and putting a good
prop made a HUGE difference.
Yes removing the flywheel does make a big difference, although you don't have to add weight to the tail.

I did initially add weight when I received my first PTS, to set the C.G. as per the documentation, then later found that it was not needed at all.

The C.G. can go back quite a bit w/o adverse effect.

Changing the prop also improves flight performance, etc.... but that's one of the draws of this plane.... that you can take it outside the realm of a trainer by doing the very things you've cited.

You can't do that with a typical high wing trainer.


ORIGINAL: XTOL

Its too fragile and too difficult to fly for a novice.

Mike Hammer
I can attest to it NOT being a fragile craft after having crashed mine against a large rock at one end of our field.

I also lawn darted a PTS at some altitude, and I was able to repair the damage to the firewall area with ease though a new cowl was needed.

Fragile? Compared to what? Most trainers are no stronger and usually quite a bit weaker in the fuselage and gear mounting areas.

I've repaired the wings and fuselage on a PTS. There's nothing more "fragile" about it.

The only thing that is needed is a bit more care in preparation.

It comes as an RTF, but it really should be titled an ARF with everything provided. Approach it that way and you'll do well.



This "novice" also managed to fly it his first time out.... 2 trips later I certified...

My 10 year old daughter also flew it after only one prior attempt with a small electric. She took to the PTS easily and found it easier to fly because it was so docile.


Difficult?

We have quite a number in use at our field.

Our more "set in their ways" trainers grumble when someone shows up with one, but they grow to quickly accept them... especially once the wind starts gusting as the PTS does a much better job than the high wingers.

Old 06-13-2007, 11:36 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

If you want it get it, my first plane was a pts p-51. I then bought a seagull edge 540 v2, then a GP geebee r2, and then a Cox model ultimate biplane(all within a 1 1/2 years). This plane will pretty much teach you how to take off and land just about anything, and it handles the wind fine. When ever it is windy and I can not fly my other planes I pull out the p-51, and people love to see this plane out of all my others. Also one day this man brought out a high wing trainer and smashed it right into the ground....I had three plane at the field so I told him he could fly my p-51.....he flew it better than he did the high wing trainner , that should tell you a lot. He was even flying it with everything of, and a 10x6 2 blade prop. Like I said before get what you want and be happy, because in the long run you are the one that is going to be flying it...and yeah that simulater is garbage. I have Realflight G3....this simulater will help keep all your planes working and in one peace.
Old 06-14-2007, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

I guess what I am hearing is that some of the negative talk can be associated with preconceived notions about learning on a tail dragger and or personal preference for high wing trainers. I work in Information Technology and every day I have to deal with people who hate any sort of change because it isn't the way they are used to doing it. Funny thing is that after a while they whole heartedly accept the change and when it comes time to change it again, they have the same grumblings. That's ok, part of life.
I'll continue to research different planes and then get input from my instructor.
Old 06-14-2007, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Sssh!!!!

You are not supposed to say that "out loud"!

It will ruffle a few feathers....

Old 06-14-2007, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Sorry, not trying to ruffle anyones feathers. I take it as passion and concern for someone new to RC airplanes and I truly appreciate everyones feedback and insight. I just talked to my new instructor and he said he just sold one of the P-51 PTS to a guy but he hadn't flown it yet. My instructor owns the larger Hanger 9 P-51 and loves it. I asked him what he thought about training on the PTS and he said that anyone can be taught to fly on just about any aircraft with proper instruction and use of the buddy system. In other words, he didn't seem concerned about it.
BTW, I am going to the Club next Tuesday to fly one of his gas high wing planes on his buddy system to see how I like it.
Old 06-14-2007, 01:00 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

Yes I like your instructor already!

Old 06-14-2007, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Hanger 9 P-51 PTS

I asked him what he thought about training on the PTS and he said that anyone can be taught to fly on just about any aircraft with proper instruction and use of the buddy system. In other words, he didn't seem concerned about it.
Looks like you found an excellent instructor. He is absolutely correct.
Listen to what he recommends. Dont worry about what others are saying.

Mike Hammer

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