I tried flying my Flyzone Cessna Skylane today, with disastrous results (augered into the ground following a failed landing attempt--requires too much speed to stay aloft, and entered a stall/spin.)

I am debating what airplane to buy. I have a receiver, ESC, and radio so DO NOT want to buy a beginner's kit that includes all this stuff... it seems like they all do.

Can anyone suggest a good gas or electric trainer that includes only the plane? Electric might be better for me right now since money is tight, though I want enough power to be able to motor through emergencies so prefer a trainer that allows me to select a motor/battery of my choosing. I like the NexStar gas and electric trainers, but they're selling a whole bunch of stuff I don't need (radio, software) at a very expensive cost. Otherwise fairly nice airplane. I can afford to spend about $150 for a trainer and upgraded high-po brushless motor, tops, as I just blew up my brand new $150 Skylane and do not wish to make the mistake of trying to fix and fly an inherently difficult-to-fly plane that is prone to stall/spin accidents.


Thanks,

Mike

Mlewis,
A few questions about your crash. You said you had a failed landing attempt,
did you push full throttle and let the plane gain some airspeed before attempting
to climb back up for a go around? .Did you add any control inputs when the plane
was low and slow? Were the batteries at full half or low charge.

First, do not use the electronics from your Flyzone plane in a nitro plane. Park flyer electronics are not suitable for nitro planes.

When my first park flyer proved too much for me (Aerobird Swift), I stuck all of the gear into a GWS Slow Stick. You may think this is too boring, but it really did help me learn to fly. This will only cost you about $30 plus whatever servos you need. After I flew my SS for a while, I was able to solo my nitro trainer on my third training night.

You could also look at something like the Sig Li'l Rascal, or a similar small electric. The trick will be to find something that will be similar in amps to your other plane, so you can use the same ESC and battery pack.

Hopefully someone with more electric experience will help you.

Good luck.

lewis, i would suggest you get a flight simulator first. I am not sure on how new you are but it will help you and you won't have to spend needless $$$$ on airplane that you are just going to crash all the time.

FMS is free and the ESKY FMS transmitter is only about $40

Really....it will help you.

Good Luck

Electrics are normal more than nitro and as mclina said those electronics wont work. a nitro nexstar is about $350 but it is worth it. If you find a club they probably have a trainer for sale a lot cheaper than new.

Batteries were fully charged, plane was balanced. This was a stall spin accident; the plane seems to require high airspeed at landing, i.e., it must be flown onto the ground. I think my experienced friend dropped too much throttle out and couldn't pull the plane out of the nosedive and spin.

I'll ask him what inputs he made, but once the plane was in the spin it was unrecoverable.

I've flown real planes and am familiar with basic aerodynamics... think this was just a case of this particular design requiring more speed than "seems" reasonable at landing. The plane is HEAVY and there's not much surface area on the wings--high wing loading is a problem.


Mike

Do I understand I cannot use the radio and receiver from the Cessna with a larger trainer? Why is this?

I'd never have bought the Flyzone Cessna if I'd known I couldn't use the radio on other 4-channel aircraft later.


Mike

hey mlewis you CAN use those electronics in antoher ELECTRIC plane... I mean you could use it in a glow powered trainer but DONT! you need much higher quality and stronger servos for the glow planes... you could put the electronics in a nice electric ARF plane... you can pick up some real nice and cheap ARF electric planes.. a good idea is what somebody else mentioned up there is to buy a gws slowstick ket.. or for just 100 dollars you can find a Parkzone Slo-v... my first plane before my glow planes and this is an absolutley amazing flying plane.. I still fly it and now I have 7 planes... 4 being glow planes good luck!

I think it is important to learn something from every crash. You believe the wing loading is high. Get the weight of the plane, less fuel, in onces. Devide this by the total wing area (including the ailerons) in square feet. About 20 oz/sqft and less is considered a floater. 25 is very ideal. Much over 32 is getting heavy but managable. I'm going by memory so others may have better info. Most trainer planes will come out of a spin if you center the sticks
(I just let them go since they are spring loaded to go to neutral) and throttle down. This is a fantastic hobby. Have a good experience.

Most inexpensive RTF electric aircraft are bundled with very inexpensive 27Mhz or 49Mhz "toy class" transmitters that aren't suitable for hobby-class aircraft with more powerful motors/engines.

The Flyzone Cessna 182 4-channel RTF comes with a 72Mhz FM transmitter that can be used with virtually any size of airplane or helicopter large or small. The transmitter can be buddy-boxed to a Futaba buddy box or a Futaba-brand transmitter for training instruction. It will likely work with a Hitec buddy box or Hitec/Tower Hobbies transmitter as well if the correct buddy box cable is used.

The receiver and servos that were included with the plane are of the smaller, weaker park flyer variety - the servos aren't strong enough to work with a larger plane and the receiver likely won't work at the farther distances that larger planes are typically flown. They should be fine to use in another small electric aircraft, however.

The previously mentioned GWS Slow Stick is an ideal match for your predicament. You could put the receiver and servos from your Cessna in a Slow Stick ARF and fly it with your existing transmitter. Your 1100Mah battery that came with your Cessna would fly a Slow Stick for a really long time between rechargings as well.

You could also purchase a larger glow trainer such as the $69.99 Tower Hobbies Tower Trainer MkII .40 ARF along with the $49.99 Super Tiger G-40 ringed ball-bearing 2-stroke glow engine and fly it with your Cessna Tactic transmitter. You'd still need to buy a full range negative shift 72mhz receiver w/ freq crystal on the same channel as your transmitter, as well as four standard sized servos. Hobby City could supply you with a GWS RD8SL receiver and crystal for about $30, and 4 HX5010 ball-bearing servos would set you back another $25 or so for the set. Add a 12" servo extension for the aileron servo, a prop, spinner, some thin CA glue, and some 30 minute Epoxy and you would have a complete glow trainer for way under $180.

I think the Slow Stick would be a smarter purchase if you plan on trying to learn on your own without joining a club or working with a flight instructor. The Slow Stick will be much better for basic flight training and will land much more slowly. It could also be flown inside of a large gymnasium if the weather won't allow for outdoor flying.

Good luck and good shopping!

I would not reccomend using the electronics in anything but a small electric trainer.
The RX is definitely a parkflyer type reciever and will not allow for the range of a
glow or large electric trainer. The ESC is for brushed motors and nimh/nicd batteries
only. Like Chevypower said the servos are not built for anyrhing but a parkflyer.

Please don't get taken into low price of GWS electronics there ESC's and RX are junk.
My friends and I have had many problems with there products in the past. along with
many other people.

One of the best recievers on the market right now is the Castle Creations microstamp.
I use them in all my foamies and small electric, have also tested it at full range in my Tiger 60
with no problems. Cost around $36 with crystal.

Thanks, y'all. As much as I hate going to a 3-channel, the Slow Stik might be what I end up buying.

Here's a question. It is FAR more economical to replace the Cessna fuselage and parts vs buying another plane. I think the Cessna's liability is the battery weight. Is it not possible to transform the plane to fly with a smaller/lighter battery pack?

The motor was a brushed 380-size motor. I could go with a brushless motor of similar rating, and perhaps a lighter battery pack with weights added elsewhere to achieve appropriate balance. This would put me back into a plane for cheap, and give me the 4-channels I want.

Is this reasonable, and can anyone suggest possible battery options. The plane needs 1100 MAh; the 850 packs I had were just as heavy as the 1100 and only lasted about 10 seconds at full throttle on full charge.

Just trying to find options. I could be flying this weekend for cheap... or saving (and not flying) till I return from Iraq in October.

ON EDIT: I CANNOT FIND A BRUSHLESS 380 MOTOR ON TOWER HOBBIES' WEBSITE. CAN ANYONE SUGGEST A SUITABLE ALTERNATIVE? MAYBE I'M JUST UNFAMILIAR WITH THEIR SIZING/NOMENCLATURE. I assume the stock propellers would work with a similarly-powerful motor.

Mike

Mlewis,
Unless you wanted to buy a new ESC, Brushless motor, and Lipo Batteries.
at a cost of approx $125.00 (that is only 1 battery and no charger)
and do A fair amount of modification. I don't think that you will be able to
lighten the plane enough.

Hey again.. haha you COULD go brushless which would probably make you very happy with your Cessna, but you would also have to buy a new esc for that brushless motor and for the lighter battery which would be great you woudl have to buy a Lipo also, which would also lead you to have to buy a Li-po battery charger, this woiuld be GREAT if you have a litttle bit of money to spend on it, and im sure the cessna fuselage isn't too much money, So hey if you NEED the 4 channels it'd be a pretty good Idea.. but for this aircraft I think you could just buy another battery liek you have and keep the stock motor.. but buy a battery that is 1 cell larger, it will make more of a difference than you can imagine... Good luck! the CHEAPER way to go would be to just buy a new battery 1 cell larger... it would work fine i think, but if you want full out power, go brushless.

and by the way the slo stick or Slo-V are great planes... whether they are 4 or 3 channels, it HONESTLY trains you VERY WELL for upcoming planes ( and you will buy alot more planes once you really start getting into the hobby)

I would not reccomend this as a plane to fly without an instructor,
I an currently waiting for the kit to become available and I will be
building this plane and package for a friend. As you can see it is not
the cheapest but the components will take him very far after his training.
I already have an old 4 channel transmitter like you do and you wouldn't
need the servos as they are the same size in your cessna.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/telemaster-mini.htm $30
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLM1400 $65
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ID=THP21003SPL $70
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRFV4&P=0 $43
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLBY8&P=0 $36
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXNCV6&P=0 $56

Heheheh... my instructor was the one who crashed the plane.

I am going to go ahead and rebuild the plane for now. It is apparent to me that I'll have to learn how to adjust my flying to suit the plane--i.e., get used to landing "hot." I am also going to research brushless props and ESCs, along with lighter battery options. I saw several batteries online that were much lighter than I have now.

I sprung for larger wheels (to facilitate better performance on our strip) and am going to research and purchase more powerful brushless motor and lighter battery options before flying the plane again. I'll admit, I have a curiosity I need to satisfy despite poor results from the first flight.

Mike

Good luck man... belive me when you have a successful flight.. thats it for you, your gonna be hooked

I am only 17 years old and have over 2000 dollars invested in this hobby, the term "you can NEVER have too much planes" is deffianatly true haha.. let us know what you find out

right on