Looking at a couple of planes: I like the smallest one just because it doesn't need 2 batteries to fly, and comes with ailerons and reusable Futaba 4ch radio. Will the smaller size be bad for a first time flier? (sorry about the heading, I had to!)

Electristar:
Wingspan: 63" (1600mm)
Wing Area: 709 sq in (45.7 sq dm)
Weight: 6lbs (2722g)
Wing Loading: 19.2 oz/sq ft (59 g/sq dm)
Length: 53" (1346mm)

Superstar:
Wingspan: 48.75" (1240mm)
Wing Area: 402 sq in (26.dm)
Weight: 3.1lbs (1.4kg)
Ready To Fly Wing Loading: 18oz/sq ft (54.9g/dm)
Length: 36.1" (917mm)

Electrifly:
Wingspan: 56"
Wing Area: 500 sq in
Weight: 44oz
Wing Loading: 14oz/sq ft
Chord: 9"
Fuselage Length: 39.5"

If you will be flying at a club is a glow powered plane an option?

The electristar also has ailerons.

Also not sure about your 3rd plane as "Electrifly" is Great Planes name for most of their electric planes.

Electrifly I was looking at was a trainer kit, but not an ARF; probably don't want that.

Why I'm not looking at nitro:
fuel looks expensive; I can get the Hobbico Superstar with 2 batteries and a charger for under $300, and can have 3 batteries for $330.
it looks like you need more stuff to bring to the field with nitro; i have limited space in my apartment
i'm not crazy about storing nitro fuel and plane with motor in my bedroom (it's where i have to keep it).

unfortunately i guess you have to sacrifice size and flight time with electric, but the electronics in the superstar can be put in my next plane which might be nitro.

Will I be bothered by the smaller size of the HObbico Superstar?

My first plane was a parkzone stryker so yes the superstar will be fine, just make sure it's not too windy as smaller planes usually don't like too much wind and also you will have to keep it closer as a smaller plane get much smaller quicker as it flies away from you.

I started with electric, i still have some but i also love my glow engines, with my first glow engine i only had a chicken stick ( old broom handle ), a glow ignitor, and a manual fuel pump mounted on my 1 gallon jug as my field equipment that's it, the #1 thing i loved about glow was flying for 10-15 minutes at a time, my stock stryker would only get 5-6 minutes per charge and waiting 1 hr for the pack to recharge was just plain boring and it didn't matter how many packs i bought it just seemed like i spent more time waiting than flying. I love landing waiting 5 minutes, refuel and back up in the air.

I know glow fuel is an ongoing cost but i spent more money on extra packs for my stryker than my fuel costs for 2 years on my glow engines.

Good luck

The 2 real differences are visibility and it will not handle windy conditions as well.
Aside from that the Superstar looks to be a perfectly fine trainer.
Many people learn on smaller trainers including smaller glow trainers in the .25 size range.

FYI


The Electristar will fly On One 14.8 v lipo.


Bob

A single RRC Lithium Polymer 4S 1P 14.8V, 3000 mAh 25/30C battery costs about $172.00. That's an awful lot of glow fuel.

Electrics are just fine, but economical is not one of their good points. Just be sure of what you want and need before jumping into the electric arena.

Completely draining the tank and putting a paper wad into the muffler port will eliminate any fuel odors. Putting the cap on the fuel jug after you are done will eliminate odors from that (and protect it from moisture accumulation).

Lipo battery packs must be charged outdoors. They are very dangerous if abused (and have been known to burst into flames for no apparent reason).

Just be careful what you choose and why. You can store a good glow plane in a small apartment just as easy as you can an electric. The only real difference is the support equipemnt, and a gallon of fuel does not take up much room at all.

CGr.

Small planes can fly quite well and they can be flown in smaller areas than big planes. Also, it takes a really good crash, not just a bad landing to do a lot of damage to them. They tend to respond faster than big planes so they should be set up with a lot less control surface throw than you would see in a .40 size airplane. A lot of the .049 powered planes I built were set up with only 3/16 inches of elevator travel up and down and that was plenty.

It's more important for your first plane to be a high wing trainer than it is for it to be big.

That is true but Lipo batteries can stand 20,000 charging cycles (info gleaned online here: http://www.rc-oval.com/lipobatteries.html )
Maybe optimistic but even 1,000 flights would actually make that $172 battery much cheaper than than the equivalent amount of glow fuel.
10 gallons would be close to that price and with throttle management you will get what 200 maybe 250 flights?
It is true Lipo batteries are expensive and a gamble too. Misshandle the pack or crash the plane and that pack may be damaged.
Most packs however will last a good long time, like buying your fuel up front.

Yup. I agree. However.. and there is always a however.. my electrics don't seem to last more than 10 flights before 1. I get bored with them, or 2) I just stop flying them because they just don't last (endurance with batteries that run down quickly and lose power after about half of a normal flight).

The glows maintain the power curve throughout the tank of fuel. Not so with electrics and batteries. The more you demand, the less you have.

It comes down to a matter of personal choice. I was "bred" on glow so that's where I gravitate to. Electrics, to me, are somewhat of a fad. I enjoy them, for a time, then get quickly bored and go right back to my glows.

CGr.

I agree 100% I rarely fly my electrics. Glow is much more rewarding for me.
I will be maidening my Super Stearman when the weather breaks, my first gasoline engine airplane. I am anticipating an even greater thrill

Ah you lucky dog! I really want to get a gasser but storage room is at a premium right now. Mainly because I have four large glow planes and two medium sized glow'ers (plus numerous built or in progress electrics) and am just out of somewhere to put a new.. larger one!! []

I am selling, or thinking of selling, one of my pattern planes plus a few of those electrics. That will make some room.. we will see.

Best of luck with that. Let me (us) know how it maidens.

CGr.

I learned to fly when I was very small on an 1/2A Ace Alpha. It had a wingspan of about 30 some inches I guess and landed in the grass without landing gear. I didn't think at the time it seemed small. I took a break from flying while in school, and then learned the full flying skills, runway landing with gear on a 20 sized Goldberg Freedom 20. It is a little smaller than a "normal" 40 sized trainer but the difference went without notice. It flies just as smoothly and could fly it away jut as far as larger trainers. I think you'll be fine with just about any size plane as long as you have someone helping just in case.

Whoa!

I think you misread the article. It talks about a new battery technology that is supposed to be good for up to 20K cycles, but it's not out yet.

LiPo's are rated to be good for 200 cycles, but that's rather optimistic, and there is degradation towards the end.

150 cycles is more realistic, which makes glow still cheaper, until battery technology catches up.

It will happen sooner or later, but the current LiPo's don't do it yet.

Another plus of nitro is flying time.. even if you brought 3 battery packes, Lipos still take a while to charge. We had a guy at our club bring his electric and he got in two flights and then waited 2 hours for charging while I had my plane up 8 or 9 times. Don't want to waist a perfect flying day just sitting there waiting for a charge

That guy came ill equipped though.

With a fast charger, and the right number of packs ( 2 or 3 sets ) he should have been able to fly all day long w/o the long waits.

I thought that sounded off. I have read in the past estimate of 500 to 1,000. I personally haven't lost a pack,"yet" and have some over 200 cycles. But not much over.
Still even at 200 cycles, thats 10 gallons of glow fuel so at its worst Lipo cost are at par with glow fuel. AND that is using CGretired qoute of $172 for a 4s 3000 mah lipo. I personally own DN 6s 4400 mah 16C lipos that I paid $150 for so if you are carefull what you buy Electrics, in the long run, don't have to cost more than glow. It really boils bown to up front cost.
I expect battery technology to improve (more flights per pack and even longer flights) and cost to go down. At the same time the cost of glow fuel I see steadily increasing, especially with the push for methonol based fuels and the demand on that market.
So if you are concerned about cost, in the long run glow has no advantage over electric. Just my opinion.
Now gasoline powered engines are another story all together. Gas powered planes are much more economical than glow or electric. At least for now.

The battery I "quoted" is from Radical RC. The below is a picture of it. I just grabbed that one because it was 14.8 volts. Please note that it is a 20 - 30C pack, which is probably much more expensive than a 15 C pack. Even so, you need a good charger (ICE - ~ $129.00 on Tower). And, that's still a lot of glow fuel.

(and, yup... up front costs, but it is STILL a lot of glow fuel!! )

There are a lot of comparisons that can be made. For instance one could argue that a field charger for glow is necessary. But, if you have a transmitter.. [X(] and need to 'field charge that, you need the charger, and that goes for both glow AND electric.

There is no doubt that many people love and prefer electrics to glows, but the reverse is also true. It comes down to personal choice, and a few extra bucks (in my opinion) to fly solely electrics.

CGr.

I really like that charger.

I don't quite understand why many favor the Triton over it.

Tower has also rebranded it and now calls it a Hobbico charger too.

I originally bought the Triton. I really had trouble figuring it out. I even tried to post a question here on RCU asking if anyone had a step by step instruction on how to charge a specific battery. The reply I got was less than easy to follow, by someone that swore by them. Now, the Triton sits on the shelf as the ICE gets used for just about all my batteries except the 12 volt gel cell I use for my starter.

I also have a couple of Sirius field chargers but they are pretty much for NiMH and NiCd batteries.

CGr.

My preference is the E-station chargers by Bantam.
It does it all. The one I have BC-5 balance charges lipos up to 5s, series charges lipos up to 5s (if you want to)
charges NiCad and NiMh 1 to 14 cells, charges my gell cell in my field box, 1 to 5 amp charge rate with peak detect. It has a probe available for temp cutoff, and a host of other programable features for $125.
Truth be told, if you look around there are a bunch of great chargers out there.
Not hard to program either. pick battery type, voltage and charge rate and go. It won't charge if you enter the wrong voltage so you can't make a mistake.

You know, the biggest issue I had with the LiPo chargers was determining the various requirements for charging the darned LiPo packs. The current was no biggie, but the cut off voltages, and all that stuff was not easy to figure out or was not readily available. I winged it and, so far... knock on wood... I've gotten it right. Or at least I have not had any fires yet.

I wish there was some easy to read guide as to all the terms in use for these battery packs, to make it easy, not just for an old fart like me, but for someone that is new in the hobby and wants to do it right (read.. safe!!)

(boy, are we getting off the subject of this thread or what!!.. [X(] )

CGr.

It's not just the battery packs. It's chargers, batteries, motors, ESCs, prop sizes, etc. Electrics require figuring out a huge number of variables before you can even buy something. On the glow side, it's much easier. Choose a .45 size plane, stuff a .75 cu in. engine in it, fill your 30 oz fuel tank with 60% nitro and you're good to go. [sm=biggrin.gif]

60% nitro? Wow.. where do ya get that stuff.. I want some!!! Those 30 ounce tanks are pretty long, right? Sort of get in the way of the servos.

Yeah but the big issue is whether or not the cut off voltage and all that stuff is all that important. I'm sure it is, but ignorance is bliss.. I think.. There seems to be a 'default' value that I tend to leave the way it is because I don't know what the heck it is.

CGr.

Lipo batteries are sensitive to proper voltages, packs can be runined from over charging and from over discharging.
All the lipo chargers and balancers I have dealt with have all agreed that 4.21V/cell is the high end cutoff. Low end I have seen some dissagreement but range between 2.9V/cell and 3.1V/cell