hey guys i have a super tiger 60 engine and a friend just gave me another one because he coudon't start it and told me to try. he bought it from a guy who said that it worked fine but i guess not. i tryed setting the needles from factory to every which way and still all it does is give a tiny little sputter and then quits. its not the fuel and not the carb because i took the carb of the other engine thats exactly the same and it does the very same thing. i've tryed new glow pugs and still nothing. i've tryed priming it from a little to lots only to hear the same little sputter. but when i heat up the engine a bit with a heat gun it doens't even sputter. it seems to have decent compression, but not quite as much as my other one that works. i'm just wondering if it could have something to do with the piston or head. i took it apart today and i don't exactly know lots about those engines but to me everything looks fine. i cna't see anything scored or pitted. so i someone has ideas to share i'd really appreciate it.

Are you using an electric starter? Or are you flipping the prop with a stick? Without an electric starter, most glow engines are tricky to start.

Put some fuel tubing on the inlet nipple of the carb and blow into it. If the needle valves are set about right, there should be a little air flow (you can hear it) when the throttle is at the idle position (barely open). There should be a lot of air flow when the throttle is open. This test will tell you if the fuel passge in the carb is blocked by dirt or gunk.

i'm not using an electric starter and never have, all my other engines start and run nicely. and the probelm is not the carb because i took the carb of the other engien thats just liek that one and it still didn't work

Not all glow engines are difficult to start with a chicken stick. All of my OS 1.20 AX's and my OS 75 AX start, cold, with about three flips of the prop with the chicken stick.

Is the engine mounted up-side down or sideways? If so, it may be getting to much fuel. Remove the glow plug and rotate the engine using an electric starter. If a lot of fuel comes out, well, that may be the beginning of your problems.

A simple question here.. is the glow driver fully charged? Don't test it by pulling a glow plug off and saying the thing glows because that means just about nothing. Make sure it is fully charged (overnight at least) then try it again.

Get the manufacturer's manual on that particular engine. Read on how to initially set the needle valve, and try it from there. Usually, this is a tad bit rich, but it should still start.

Check the idle mixture too. It may have been fiddled with and open to rich. That one is a touchy one to set. A slight movement causes a lot of changes in the idle mixture. Just a short rotation is all that is necessary with this, and someone may have turned it either to much (to rich) or closed it to the point where it is starving for fuel at idle or close to idle. I can't tell you how to set this for initial starting because I've never had to adjust it beyond setting the right mixture for transition from idle to full throttle, and that was only an eighth of a turn or so. If it was messed with, you may have to turn it completely in and then find out how much to turn it out (richen it from 0 ) to get the right mixture for starting the engine.

Good luck.

CGr.

Not all engines are difficult to start with a chicken stick, but some are, especially when not tuned right. Catch 22, engine needs to run to tune but engines are hard to start when not tuned. Sometimes an electric starter, even if you don't use it often, is worth the $20.

Yep. Absolutely. Yesterday, a friend has an older OS 90 two stroke in his Tiger 60 clipped wing kit he built up. He was having some difficulty starting his engine and did not have his electric starter with him, so I offered mine. It took quite a few turns, even with the electric starter to get it going, but we got it going. The cold and the wind probably had something to do with that, but it was tuned right and still needed to be prodded by the electric starter.

CGr.

CGRetired
thanks for your input there guys......yeah my glow starter was fully charged so i guess thats not the problem. my engine is mounted upright and i did remove the glow plug a few times already and tipped the engine and there was fuel coming out when i turned the prop. i made adjustments after that to where the manual said the neeles should be. they said to ope n the high speed needle 2 to 3 turns and the idle needle is supposed to be flush. i tryed that too and i always get that dumb little sputter. i've also tryed putting some fuel directly in the carb maybe about 5 to 10 drops and not prime it after i'd have tipped and drained the fuel from the glow plug hole and still just the sputter. so i'm at my wits end with this thing.

SpringHill,
These guys have great suggestions. If it still does not start, or run well, or the carb settings are Waaaayyyy off from the factory specs when you do get it running, check the "O"-ring for the carb.
Also, it is my understanding that this engine is ringed. If it was not properly run-out the last time it was used and it sat for a long time, it is possible that the fuel could have "gummed" the carb, or caused the rings to stick, (hence the lower compression). An electric starter with new clean fuel running through the carb/engine may free the rings whereas hand propping may not.
In Glow engines, compression is necessary for fuel ignition. These small model engines are what is called semi-diesel engines. They use compression and a glow plug to ignite the fuel at the proper time in the combustion cycle. If compression is low, the fuel ignition happens late in the cycle. If compression is high, then ignition happens early.
A higher temp glow plug will cause earlier ignition, and a lower temp plug will cause later ignition.
Early ignition may cause engine damage, and late ignition substantially reduces power.
To be on the safe side, you should always use the glow plugs that are specified by the manufacturer, however, in theory, you may be able to extend the life of an older, lower compression engine by using a glow plug that has a higher heat rating. This may balance the late ignition caused by the lower compression with earlier ignition cause by the higher heat glow plug.
Just a theory, I have not tried it, (I always rebuild or get new when I have mechanical engine problems - it isn't worth a plane to me).

Anyway... I hope this helps.

Let us know what you found.

If, when you removed the glowplug and spun the engine, fuel came out, you may have the needles too rich. I had this trouble recently with a new ST G45 engine. The NV settings in the manual were too rich to allow it to be started, even with the electric. It just spewed fuel out the exhaust. I've yet to see a mid-sized supertigre engine that needed the NV open more than 2 turns for a rich setting, so long as it had muffler pressure to the tank. Try at leaner settings.

If you've just "pumped the excess fuel" out of your engine, by removing the glowplug and spinning, try to start the engine WITHOUT connecting the fuel and pressure lines. It should start and run strong for a couple seconds while it burns out the remaining fuel. After that, set the high speed needle to 2 turns, prime only enough to fill the fuel lines, and re-start it.

Bobmac's suggestion to check the gasket under the carb is a good one too...

Good luck,

J

I had a Super Tigre 75 and it used to spit raw fuel when it was running (out the carb, by the way) but it started easily, ran good, and had good power. So, I don't know what to tell you any more than I've already said.

Perhaps taking it to the field when there are experienced flyers there and maybe one of them can put a finger on your problem and get that engine running.

Good luck.

CGr.

Did you say you replaced the glow plug? If not, try that too. Get one each of the OS3, 8, and F plugs and try each of them in succession and see if that helps. Hey, won't hurt.

CGr.

bobmac yeah i did check the o-ring and even put in a different one and the guy who had it befreo me said he used a electric starter and he got the same results i am.
Jburry i have already done what you told me to in almost the exact same way way but to know avail. guys this engine is crazy and impossible to start, i've convinced myself.
Retired i did say that i changed the glow pug but i put in the same one that i run in the other engine that runs, i havne't tryed a different one.

really appreciate you guys trying to help cause i'm ready to throw the darn thing out. but i just bought i couple books that tell me all about the engines so maybe they will help

Yeah, It looks like you are in a pretty remote location there so on-line help may be all you can get. Stick with it. We will do all we can to help.

CGr.

Have you tried closing the needle valve completely and then putting the electric starter on it. It is possible that you have the wrong needle valve in the carb.

CGR sorry to hear about your wind accident.

Hi Irish. Thanks. Yeah.. pain to have a crash with the darned plane not running and sitting on the ground. Darn wind! But, it's repairable and it will be back up in no time.

i have tryed closing and starting with my chicken stick but not with an electric starter casue i don't have one. its not the needle valve or the carb cause i did try switching those. i have another engine that identical to this one and it works fine, so i took that carb and put it in the engine that ain't starting and it still does nothing.

Hook a new piece of tubing into the engine feed line.

Open the throttle all the way and blow into the tube.

While you should get some resistance, you should be able to hear air coming out of the carb.

Close the throttle to idle.

Blow again.

You should hear a hiss and get a lot more resistance to your efforts to blow in.

Is all of this OK?

If so, check the muffler pressure nipple for blockage as well.

Finally connect a clean piece of tubing to the muffler pressure tube line...

Disconnect the fuel feed to the engine, and direct it into a cup, etc. Blow into the clean muffler pressure line.

Does fuel FREELY come out of the fuel feed line when you do so?

If the answer is no to any of these, you've located your problem.

i will try what you suggested opjose, i'll let you know tomorrow how it went

Typically if the engine appears to want to run, then shuts down rather quickly, it's either a carb ( or carb setting ) issue, or a fuel line problem.

You pulled the carb from a known working engine, which is a good start, but does require a bit of retuning... assuming it's OK, then the engine may be firing for a couple of revs, then lacking fuel to continue.

give a squirt of fuel through the carb to start the engine. the engine should run a couple of seconds on the prime. if it does, probably a carb/tuning problem. if it doesn't, inspect the crankcase and backplate for possible cracks or warped backplate allowing an air leak. I don't think it is a fuel line problem or carb problem because the problem followed from from your friends plane to you with a perfectly good carb from your engine. IMOH, there is possibly an air leak or missing gasket, something along those lines.

EXCEPT he only transferred the carb from one plane to another, he did not swap the engines, so a fuel problem is a distinct possibility.

In other words, the errant engine stayed on the same plane and fuel system.

what bothers me is that for the most part it ALWAYS gives the same pop, if i prime it lots and try to start it wet or if i dry it out and only put 2 or 3 drops in the carb and leave the fuel line emply.

On the SuperTigre, the direction of the orifice on the main needle is adjustable, and it needs to point absolutely straight down the throat of the carb to make it work properly. I had a 45 that wouldn't run right, and found that when I adjusted the main jet to discharge straight down the throat, it would run fine.

If I had re-read the post, I would have found that he had already swapped the entire carb.... sorry..

Try testing the fuel/carb system as I mentioned.

The first few drops may be enough to get initial detonation, but not enough to keep the engine turning over.

Here's something else for you to think about...

Could someone have pulled the head of the cylinder, and put the liner ( if it has one ) back in the wrong way?

This may also cause your problem.

Listen to OPJOSE he has given you a lot of good advice. How cold is it where you are at? If below freezing a little Ronson lighter fluid helps a lot on cold starts. How old is your fuel and has it been exposed to lots of moisture. These can be problems in my neck of the woods and your weather must be somewhat similar? I keep the old fuel for break-in on the stand so no dead sticks.