Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

So I tried to fire up my new OS 46AX today at the field. It is harder than it sounds!

Today was field day, the day to move the shed down near the runway, set up the fences, and fill in the tire tracks of whoever the %^&* did donuts on our runway! It was pouring rain, and it didn't stop until after we decided to call it quits for the day, so no air time for me. It did clear up later in the day, so I figured some break-in time would be a slight cure for my depression, and I headed back to the field.

I got everything set up, tied my plane down, and fueled up. Opened the needle 2 full turns. Primed the engine until I saw fuel in the lines just reach the carb, turned the plane on, hooked up the glow plug, and started flipping. Kept flipping, and flipping, and finally flipped some more. I noticed air in the fuel lines, so I removed the glow plug, unhooked the pressure line, and added more fuel to the plane until fuel came out the pressure line and all the air was gone. I hooked up the pressure line, and noticed fuel in the carb opening. I again tried to start, and voila!

I stood behind the plane and watched the exhaust. Plenty of smoke, with little bits of fuel spraying out. Perfect I thought. I let it run like this for a minute, then attempted to lean out the engine to 'two cycle operation'. I turned and listened, turned and listened some more, until finally the engine stopped from the needle being set too lean (good thing for the castor!) There was smoke and fuel coming out the whole time, and I never heard any difference in pitch (2 cycle vs 4 cycle).

Getting the plane started again was a real chore. Again I saw some air bubbles in the fuel lines, and again flushed the system with fresh fuel. I was only able to get one more start, which stopped when I removed the glow ignitor. I think I might have exhausted the ignitor, because I just could not get the plane to start again (closed needle valve, opened up 1.5 to 2 turns again, hooked up ignitor, nothing. Tried adjusting needle, tried adjusting throttle, nothing).

Lesson: Experience beats knowledge. I have been on this site every day since I got my plane, asking questions and sucking up whatever information I could. I had the whole startup and break in procedure playing in my head, including sounds, sights, everything. But, I have zero experience doing this, and it really showed today. One thing I have to say is that these engines really are not toys. I 'knew' that before I bought it, and definitely respect the engine, but when it started up and I was all alone with it, Geez! I bet they can do some real damage if you're not careful. Luckily with all your help I KNEW HOW TO BE SAFE with the engine had the plane safely tied back, and did all adjustments standing behind the wing. I'm really glad I got the remote needle valve, too. I can't imagine being alone and around one of these for the first time and putting your fingers that close to the spinning prop.

Anyway, I will wait until I can meet up with a trainer and have them help me out, hopefully on Wednesday. If anyone sees something I might have done wrong with starting the engine, feel free to chime in. I'm a little curious about the air bubbles that appear when flipping the prop.

*Added the next day: I've got a dead arm today, and was trying to figure out what it's from...did I sleep on it? Nope. Flipping the dang prop! [:@]

DMcQuinn

My Feedback: (13)

Air bubbles in the line going to the carburetor are not a problem when starting. If the engine is running full out and you see bubbles in the line, this is a problem. Starting a .46 glow engine is much easier if you buy a 12 Volt battery and an electric starter. Most beginners have a tough time starting an engine by hand flipping.

Nathan King

I would just wait until your instructor helps you out. He will be there and can take a look at everything. As in most things on this earth, it's much harder than it looks and requires experience to make it look easy. [8D]

Missileman

I still use the pinch method, pinch the fuel line near the carb, if it just trys do die it is lean, if it revs up it is rich. But I have gotten were I can tell by sound fairly well now. Takes time but you will get the ear for it.
I help a guy tune his new Saito 150 last weekend. He said it would hesitate when going from mid throttle to full. As it turned out he was way too lean by almost a full turn.
Probably the most accurate is a tach, which are not very expensive. I only use mine on my helicopters now but I used to test all my prop/engine combos with it.

Deathbunny_SG

My Feedback: (6)

If you ran it to lean and are now having problems check your glo plug. Running lean can ruin them quite quickly I think.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

When flying or just running any kind of glow engine or bigger the buddy system is an excellent idea even for experianced flyers and probably more so it its your first time operating one of these engines.

And as mentioned by DMcQuinn Most folks do better using a starter at least initially and yes there are mistakes one can make with those too.

John

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Two turns open on the needle valve is not enough. Caster or not, your engine will never be a top performer after a break in that you described.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

OS manual said 1.5 to 2 turns. Luckily (or unluckily?) it didn't run that long. Could that be the problem? Maybe 2 turns is not enough to get '4 stroke operation'? I went as far as 3 turns, but then right back to 2.

Nathan King

The engine will be fine. I really don't go by exactly how many turns, but by how the engine sounds and runs. Your instructor will be able to show you this much easier than anybody can explain it online. There's a bit of an art to it, as you have found out.

HANGTIGHT

High Plains how many turns would be enough on that engine?

Jester241

Yeah...though,I've never played with a .46AX,2 turns is most likely not enough. I did read the manual and this is indeed what it calls for,but there's likely a chance you misjudged your turns or it simply should be further out. If it ran and you leaned it out and didnt hear a difference.....its either TOOO lean,or you got other problems(not likely). Chances are that if you had richened it to where you started from(preferable more),it would have started again. I'd bet a six pack your started was dead though. I always keep a spare glow plug in my tool box just to test my starter with by holding the plug in my fingers and sticking it into my started to see if it glows or not. And keep in mind,engine will almost ALWAYS spit fuel out the muffler not matter how rich or lean its set up.

As far as your engine being messed up for life and never performing again.......I would bet a whole case of beer what you did(possibly running it lean for a bit) wont hurt that motor a bit. I dont think it would hurt any modern motor(some guys will argue) a bit,not to mention your running an O.S. which are such good engines from the factory,most guys now days dont even break them in. I know the guys at my field dont(I do though). They put 'em in,and 5 minutes later there in the air. They might run them a tad rich for a flight or two,but not much. Even my O.S. instruction manuals say they dont really even need broke in.

I wouldnt think twice about any damage. Just richen that baby up,charge your starter and I'll bet she'll run like a champ! You'll get the hang of it.

.....oh,and do yourself a HUGE favor and get an electric starter! You'll find your engines will start 1000 quicker and easier. I've actually had planes laugh at me just thinking they'd start when I walked up to them carrying a chicken stick! lol

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

When I set the needle for the inital run of an engine I first put a piece of tubing on the fuel nipple, open the throttle wide open and blow through the line. Often you will turn the needle a half turn or so before you hear any air going though the needle seat. From that point (where you can first hear air), I open the needle another 2 1/2 to 3 turns from where the air first goes through. You should start it in a full 4 cycle. If it is ABC, AAC, ABN (any of the tapered pinch at the top P/S) engines you then need to take it up to a point where it is just breaking between 2 and 4 cycle. It is good to also have a fairly light prop load too, at the bottom of the range recomended.

Run it for a couple of minutes and then let it cool. Feel the exhaust stream an inch or so away from the muffler. It should be warm but not hot enough to burn your fingers. And it will be very oily/wet.

A ring engine takes more time running rich.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks guys. Definitely didn't misjudge the turns there' a marker.

I was wondering what sound was! I swear, when I tried starting (like the 4th time) I saw the look in my Nexstar's (eyes?) and it was like "I don't think so." Just like that look your new dog gives you when you are about to put him in his cage or give him a bath.

So now a battery, charger, and starter...boy it keeps adding up! I've already spent more than I should have...I won't be able to afford that stuff for at least 2mos.

Flying freak

You don't need a starter...

If you don't have the money for it don't spend it isn't NEEDED get your instructor to show you how to start it with a chicken stick once you get used to it you'l be able to start it very quickly by hand also theres a much smaller risk of damaging your engine will your trying to start it if your doing it by hand....

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

K. Definitely waiting 'till training day before I do anything else, that's for sure.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Actually now it makes sense it would only start after I tried flushing the air bubbles out with more fuel, i.e. loading up the cylinder with fuel. The needle was too lean, so it would only start when I added that extra fuel.

Missileman, you're right about the pinch test. I was so anxious I forgot all about it!

Does anyone know how many turns out the needle should be for a new 46AX? (just for knowledge sake, not going to try again w/o instructor).

Campgems

FatOrangeKat, you drive to the field dont' you? There is a fully charged 12V battery for your use. The starter, you gota buy. Check with the guys at the field, Some of them probably have three or four more starters than they need and would be willing to sell you one for realy cheep. Or even give you one.

A starter, and a glow igniter that has the little meter in it are as important as glow fuel and an engine. Several times I've watch guys trying to start and engine and handed them my glow stick, which shows up a conection, and have their engine kick off right away.. It tells you right away that the glow plug is OK and that there is enough battery to start the engine. If it shows dead, just clip it onto some one elsees engine to see if your plug is gone or if the battery needs charging. The starter, what can I say. I've watch guys have their arms go numb trying to flip start a marginal engine. I've see them not get the chicken stick out of the way and have the engine backfire or start and eat the stick and the prop. I am astounded at engines today. I had been away from the hobby for some 30+ years and my memory of engines was a day of cranking and three minutes of flying was a good day. Today, with a starter and a good tune, it fill the tank, start it and fly.

When you are first starting out. there is a lot to learn, and the last thing you need is to be fighting a reluctant engine. While fighting an engine and trying to get it running right, expecially without a starter is just going to take away from your fly time. I've been there. I've had my instructor setting back on the side lines yelling "I smell castro oil" as I was trying to get my engine running and able to idle. Never once did he help tune the engine. I dont't know if it was some sort of rights of passage or not, but I finally got really good at tuning an engine, and you know what, you still smell castor from the exhaust. And I help my instructor trouble shoot his probelms now.

You know that guy that come out and gets his plane setup and starts flying. No fideling with the needles, Just fuels it, starts it, an goes flying. Never has a dead stick. That's the guy you want to talk to. He may be an old timer, or a new guy. Doesnt' matter, he is the guy who knows how to setup his plane and engine and he is the one to talk to.

Don

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

We spent 3 hours today fixing donut tracks on the runway I'm not about to bring my car near the runway, and I'm not about to walk a plane with a spinning prop all the way around the fence. I wish it were that easy.

If someone wants to kick down a starter though, maybe I can come up with a power supply. I'll ask, that's a good idea.

rockerdude22

I myself had the same problem, my fuel line had bubbles. My instructor told me to put a fuel filter on it, fixed the problem right up, engine ran 100% better. You can get one for about 6$ at your LHS.

Hypersprint

FatOrangeKat, not to change the subject but it looks like we will get to meet on Wednesday.

I'll be the one with the NexStar EP driving a black Yukon.

What time will you be getting to the field?

Robby

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Got one. The bubbles were only from when I was cranking the prop, not while the engine was running - don't know if that makes a difference.

Looking forward to it! I've got a Nexstar that's about as big as my Honda Civic. (You'll probably see my Nexstar towing my Civic down the rocky road to the field!) I'm out of work at 2 on Wednesday, so I'll be there on the early side. Maybe 4ish? I don't want to show up with noone there and be tempted to try running my engine again on my own, although I'm feeling a little more confident about it now.

Also there's a club meeting on Wednesday evening at the field if you're interested. Hope to see you there!

Joe

mjg3

fat orange cat you never mentioned if you were adjusting the mix while it idleing or wide open. try it wide open youll see and hear it.
jester241 i will bet that case on something i dont know what? the wife says no airplanes today you spent the day at the club warbird flyin yesterday! yard work , wash the trucks and the dogs yeah i will need a few beers when the honey-do's are done!! ha ha [8D]