Yesterday as I got back in the game of instructing watching the student with his other instructor I noted a few things. Many instructors all approach training differently which probably a good thing, because the student gets different perspectives with the other instructor picking up on different things.

The student I was working with had flown a number of flights, made a few takeoffs and landings with the other instructor. The student had not been instructed on proper ground handling, aircraft pre-flight, starting, and shutdown. Yet he had flown! The other instructor was doing all the preflight, starting, taxing, and shutdown. So the student and I spent a few tanks of fuel on the inactive runway having him taxi the airplane with the wing off around chairs in figure 8's and circles. First starting close the chairs and inline with them. Then moving the chairs out to about 60yds apart with the student standing at each pilot station so he was 90 degrees to the chair line the prospective for takeoff and landing. We also worked on preflight, proper starting procedures, and shutdown. Proper use of the radio and some ground school on flight as that student has little or no knowledge of why his airplane flies. Items like why he looses altitude in a turn, how the pattern should be flown, ect., ect................

The point of this rambling is that I think even though everyone teaches differently there are certain items that should be covered at particular stages of progression. A STUDENT SYLLABUS would provide instructors with some standardization of instruction. A different instructor could easily review where a student is at if they had a training syllabus folder showing what training points had been covered.

What do you all think should be included a syllabus? I'm going to put a syllabus together for our club and its students.

Ya, I know you can tell I was military

A few years ago I found an instructor training manual put together by Mike Lynch and Tom Rhodes of the Crystal River R/C Club in Beverly Hills, FL. I downloaded it and modified it for our clubs use, but I think it contains exactly what you're looking for. If you're interested, I can email you a copy. I have not put it up on our club website because I've been unable to contact either of the authors to get permission. I did a search on google and found the same manual at the North Dallas Radio Control Club at http://www.ndrcc.com/asp/modules/use....asp?subid=137

Good Luck.

Brad

Steve.. you may relate to this.

Back when I was still in the learning process, well, I was out at out field alone. The grass guy had not yet cut the grass for the weekend's flying, and I was out there with my trainer, doing taxi practice.

I was doing pretty much as you suggested with obstacles and so on, but when I was done, I ended up solo'ing that day. Anyway, as I said, I was doing the taxi practice while alone. After a while, and as I was involved in the taxi practice, one of the instructors showed up. I didn't know he was there.

Well, on one of my taxi's, well, I was lined up on the centerline, and I added a bit more throttle than I anticipated (perhaps by accident, perhaps on purpose.. I'll never tell ) but the next thing I knew, the plane was airborne.

Ok, I said to myself, fly the plane. So, I did a few orbits then decided to see if all that learning was wasted. So, I set up for a landing and greased it in. Perfect three point landing. The instructor, who was standing behind me (and I still didn't know he was there) yelled, "YOU SOLO'ED and I SAW IT!!" It was a fun day.

When all was said and done, though, we stood there on the flight line and could outline each and every path the plane took while on the ground because of the way the grass was chopped by my prop. It was pretty neat... and a tad ragged.. except for the take-off roll and the landing.

CGr

You sound like a great instructor. I find our clubs' syllabus woefully inadequate and often add to it. Be careful, however, about making the syllabus too strict. I would recommend giving goals and checkpoints but not ordering teaching to be done a certain way since all students learn differently. Allow the other instructors to account for this.

One thing we also do at our club is have a 'virtual flight log' of each student pilot. The instructor adds information to the virtual log as the students progress then Emails the log to the club instructors. This keeps other instructors aprised of how a student is progressing as he/she is learning. It works out pretty good for us.

CGr.

Things that my instructor needed to tell me were:
No taxing in the pits, unless the field is pretty empty.
Only fly in the space on the opposite side of the strip - no flying over the pits.
When you yell "on the field" it's only for retrieving your plane; no starting/checking/maintaining the plane on the strip.

bkdavy,

Thanks for the information. I downloaded the North Dallas RC club information for reference quite a lot of good information. I also contacted the Beverly Hills R/C club the president there was our clubs president for about 20yrs before moving across state. Our field is named after him an honor bestowed on him before he moved. Art Silver and I flew U-Control as kids together in what was then parent club of our present R/C club formed 50yrs ago next year.

Any imputs are appreciated!

What I intend on having is a checklist of areas for the instructors in a folder given to each student to carry with them. The checklist will have initial blocks for the instructor and comment areas.


Dick,

The virtual flight log is an interesting idea, and certainly would increase communication between instructors. I'll have to talk to our webmaster about an instructor's corner where something like that could be done.

If you folks would like to help put this together, we all can share the benefits.

I've never really used a "syllabus" so much as just looked for certain skills to develop. A specified set of "lessons" or a checklist of "tasks" has always, to me, seemed to be overkill...for two reasons:

1) This ain't scale flight, folks. I acknowledge, a Telemaster certainly CAN cause harm if treated carelessly, or used without adequate ability to handle the machine. It is NOT, however, in quite the same "threat level" as, say, a Cessna 152 or DA-20.

2) Different folks are different folks. I've taught a whole BUNCH of subjects to a whole BUNCH of people in my life...and the single biggest skill or trait a GOOD INSTRUCTOR can have, imo, is not the oft-cited "patience"...but JUDGMENT. That ability to recognize that while Bob may learn one way, Sam learns another...and the ability to convey information to BOTH equally well.

I've had students (both in RC and in vastly different fields) who simply COULD NOT grasp concepts without a map, a plan, hourly reviews, and a detailed schedule of events and topics. On the other hand, I've had students who wanted to skip right to the end, and work backwards. Some methods work for some, others for others.

As a result, it strikes me that ANY instructor...of nearly ANY topic...should go into a teaching situation using "tasks" and "maneuvers" not as a roadmap, but rather as teaching tools...each one able to be included OR NOT, at ANY time, when it seems that said task will convey the bigger picture.

So, having said all of that, here's what passes for my "syllabus" when teaching RC Flight:

Fly straight and level.
Fly a pattern in both directions
Land
Take Off

Do the above things enough times that I'm not scared to stand next to you WITHOUT a buddy cord.

That's really pretty much it. I've had guys that took MONTHS to complete that list, and "enough times I'm not scared" was several hundred. I've also soloed guys in a day. *shrug*

Now, to do this, imo, takes a pretty large "bag of tricks". For every "task" above, there are almost LIMITLESS things an airplane can do that might or might not aide in the student learning one of those skills. Consider the simple stall. What MIGHT a student learn from a stall and recovery?

1) The elevator is a fast/slow control, not up and down.
2) Landing approach management is frequently taught as "elevator for airspeed, throttle for altitude". See #1 above.
3) What does the plane look like when it's about to stall?
4) What CAUSES a stall?
5) Why does it stall more readily in a turn?
6) How do I tell if my wings are level?
7) How do I know if I should keep power on during landing?
8) How do i know when the plane is going fast enough to take off?
9) How high should I be on my approach?
10) When is it time to let the plane settle on the ground during landing?

There's 10 right there...just off the top of my head. 10 lessons that could be applied to ANY or ALL of the skills above, and may or may not serve to illustrate a point to any random student.

So, anyway, there you have it. I'll tell you the same thing I've told a few hundred other instructors of various skills and topics...don't walk into the classroom with a roadmap. Walk into it with an end-point, and a full bag of tricks to get your students to that end-point.

gboulton,

Thanks for the imput! I really think this is going to be more a laundry list of training points that should be covered, not how to cover the subjects.

I think we could have some discussion about your #1 & 2 points on pitch and throttle control particularly regarding to full scale flight. When flying an instrument approaches in military and airline flying glideslope is maintained with pitch and airspeed with throttle. It would be very dangerous to dive or climb off glideslope to maintain airspeed using pitch. There is no doubt that one can trade altitude for airspeed its stored energy. There are flight regimes where that may not be the best technique.

Sounds like we could, yeah...but this thread probably isn't the place for it. *heh*

In either event, hey, if those ideas help, great! And, if you are so inclined, I'll be happy to contribute in any way I can. NOTHING works for everyone, but if some of what i have can work for some...well..it's theirs for the asking.

Gboulton,

Just out of curiosity why do you teach landings before takeoffs? I usually teach the other way. My rationale is that the student must be able to control the airplane on the ground at "high" speeds upon landing, so I teach taxiing and takeoff first. I feel that landing is a natural extention of takeoff. Plus students usually find landing more daunting, so learning to takeoff first will ease their concerns a bit.

Again, I'm not criticizing - just curious.

Nathan,

Ditto on the takeoffs first, landings are much harder to accomplish for the average student pilot R/C or otherwise.

If they don't know how to take off, they're less likely to decide they don't need you and "just go for it". *heh*

Gboulton,

Needing my services as their instructor is their choice!

Remember for most instructors its a non paid volunteer position in most clubs. If a new pilot feels that they have it together then so be it, not my airplane or investment. Sorry to see that, but you've got to tough to be dumb, at least in the wallet! I just don't want to be around when the carnage occurs.

Frankly its easier for me, I have other things to do with my time. Fly my own airplanes, visit with my friends without the student stress. More than willing to donate my time for those who listen, the others who don't well.............?????? If I can't get through to them perhaps someone else will.

As my great grandmother once said " those who won't listen must feel!"

You ought to talk to the club's Flight Training Director about rewriting that sometime!

http://www.omahawks.org/pdf/Flight%2...ual%202002.pdf

Olie Olson wrote it originally, so you might want to update the references to "understanding steam power" and "retrieving your plane with a lamplighter's pole."

Well, I don't want to shake things up the second I get the position.

I modify "the list" on a student by student basis to make sure they get everything they need to fly well. Plus, I'm working on a short ground school series of packets anyway.

I was a backwards learner. I though takeoffs would be easy and landing hard. It ended up I couldnt take off without looking like I was doing 3D. Thats of course if I wasnt overcorrecting and snaking all over the ground before cutting the throttle and starting again. Now my landings were pretty good. I practiced a lot of rudder/reverse airleron to maintain level flight. That helps a lot on landing.

I went solo in 2005 and there are things in that manual that still don't make sense to me!

What manual?

The one I linked to in my post above, you responded before I finished editing my post.

Yes, you may have been, however some 98% of the RCers were NOT, especially in the flying game. I left the USAF in 02-'68 after 13 years of it. I formally instructed in both the T-33 and T-38 plus some other instructing along the way. 28 years airline time also brought one into formal learning stations.

Like you, Steve, I thought that a formal syllabus was the only way to go. Now I don't think it is worth the effort. Certainly an instructor should make himself a guide and go from there, however the undisciplined newbie RCer is another personality when compared to a place where the non-performer can be either washed-out or fired, or both.

From Mama's baby with all the toys he wants to the old flarts like me, and especially those that cannot see but will not admit such, plus those that take to it like a duck to water, have no regard for safety stuff, think the field belongs to them, and will NOT listen to you, but expect you to make the take-offs and landings while they bore holes in the sky on YOUR time, well I just don't care whether they do or do not.

I have written flight plans, instructional plans, established a grade book system that worked for a couple years, but comes a new club regime and no one will use it anymore due to paperwork. I use to really push the instruction program, but no more. I help when asked, but don't any longer drive to the field to meet that one that found something else to do for the day.

The syllubus idea should be the answer, however in today's world of "I want it now", and "I know all there is to know," it simply doesn't work very well.

Regarding teaching landing before takeoff:

I teach landings before takeoffs because that gives me the best opportunity to prevent damage to the plane - simple as that. The takeoff is the most difficult part to teach because of the risk of the student putting the plane in jeopardy very close to the ground. He/she may put the plane into the pit area, pull it up into a stall. So many things, so little time to react.

My thinking is they're already in the air learning to control the plane, so while the plane is there, teach them to land. By the time they can regularly control their landings, control the plane in flight, and react to stalls, they're ready to adequatly control the plane on take off. And at that point they've already simulated many take offs (without realizing it) as they throttled up to go around on the aborted landings. I'll still have to react quickly if something goes wrong, but the risk of that something going wrong have been greatly reduced.

Brad

That's very true, Brad. That's the way I was taught, never realized it until I had been flying with the buddy box for some time.. well, perhaps a month.. I was a slow learner.. but I asked about that and the instructor suggested I try to take off on the next flight. Well, I flubbed that up pretty good and realized that perhaps I will follow his lead and go with the flow.

Later, after another couple weeks of flying two or three times a week, well, I finally got the hang of it and what control to use and when to use it.

It paid off after I solo'ed because once I finally got the hang of it, well, I went out on my own. The day was very windy with a pretty good cross wind. But, the way our field is, there is a tree line behind the flight line, about 50 feet behind us. And it ends abruptly about 100 feet down. So, when the wind is on our backs, it is usually over the tops of the trees, until you get to where the tree line ends, and it funnels through that opening at a pretty good rate. So, take off begins, then the plane is rolling and accelerating, then the plane gets in that sudden change and gets hit by the cross wind.

I learned pretty quick about cross wind with a high wing-high dihedral aircraft. I would have never dealt with that during training, but once I had flight time, and had a better handle on the take off, well, it was scary.. but I was able to handle it. Landings were a trip too. But, all that is what we call experience, and there is only one way to get it.

Hossfly said it.. the 'I want it now' crowd just doesn't get it. The word 'experience' does not exist in their dictionary.

CGr.

Hoss,

I understand what you are saying, and agree. I was a little behind you went through Vance class of 73-08, ended up retiring out the reserves flying rescue 130's. Didn't do the airline career my dad was an Eastern captain, and my step dad was a Delta captain.

I think what I'm going to come up with is just a simple checklist of points to be covered by the instructors. A crib sheet of a sort if you will be a reminder that will travel with the students. The rest is up to the instructor.

This is very typical and I think oh so wrong based on my experience. Takeoff and landing involves getting very close to the ground where mistakes hurt. They are also where the student pucker value gets high, so I avoid these subjects until after we spend a lot of time doing basic acrobatic flight.

The value of doing acro is two fold. First, it's what most of them want to do so it really gets their interest. Second, it places the airplane into unusal attitudes where they learn how to recover on their own. After they know how to recover from various combinations of loops, rolls, and stalls from any aspect (direction of flight), they have very little stress in flying a basic landing pattern, and tend not to be concerned with the left/right thing or overrolling into the ground. Toss in slow flight and flairing at the proper moment and landings are easy. As to takeoff or landing first, it really depends on the student.